Are Nurses First Responders?

[ScrubADub12]

Hi Guys,

I recently entered a contest for my wedding on facebook and was selected a a finalist among Police, Paramedic, EMT etc. I am just interested to find out if we would consider Nurses to be First Responders? From the moment patient enters any medical institution we are the ones who provide care, but often this can happen before the hospital. I understand that paramedic, police, firemen etc. are typically the first on scene but why are nurses never really given much credit beyond the four walls of a hospital?

[akulahawkRN, ADN, RN, EMT-P]

Dr Williams said:

Advanced trained BSN Nurses, Critical Care, ICU, ICU stepdown are in fact first responders. At 911 these specialist nurses were called in and are way above the average office or floor nurse. Depending on their education, advanced training and assessment, they are the top of the line first responders. The nurses I've described are used in life flight, critical care as a normal part of their career. Yes, BSN advanced critical care Nurses are in fact first responders. They're many positions within nursing. I'd ask if the RN has a BSN and is a critical care nurse. They and well trained paramedics are the top of the line first responders. A critical care RN is licensed and educated, trained to do things above a paramedic. I respect Paramedics, have known many in ER rooms in NYC to out perform MD's in their first year. A critical care RN is top in the ER, above all other first responders except trauma teams working as a single unit.

Yes, BSN RN'S are legally licensed as first responders.

No. A BSN is not legally a first responder. Neither are Critical Care/ICU/Stepdown nurses. Why? They do not have the requisite training/education to safely function in the field in a first responder role. How do I know? I'm a Paramedic. I am a first responder. I am also an ED nurse. None of my education as an RN and none of my orientation as an ED nurse provided me with any knowledge about how to function safely in the field. The vast majority of the nurses in the ED where I work would be potentially unsafe to very unsafe if they were simply thrown out on an ambulance and told to get to work.

Nurses that do Life Flight-type work where the work involves going to various "scene calls" do obtain the requisite education during their orientation. Even then the flight nurse may not be allowed to perform all the Paramedic skills.

The California EMSA recognizes this and requires that Paramedics treat RN personnel that happen to be on scene as Basic Life Support providers unless the RN is appropriately credentialed (such as MICN or CFRN) as a field provider. When I'm functioning as a Paramedic, even if the nurse is an MICN, if they're off-duty and they're getting in my way, I will have that nurse removed from my scene and possibly arrested if necessary.

[Extra Pickles]

Dr Williams said:

Advanced trained BSN Nurses, Critical Care, ICU, ICU stepdown are in fact first responders. At 911 these specialist nurses were called in and are way above the average office or floor nurse. Depending on their education, advanced training and assessment, they are the top of the line first responders. The nurses I've described are used in life flight, critical care as a normal part of their career. Yes, BSN advanced critical care Nurses are in fact first responders. They're many positions within nursing. I'd ask if the RN has a BSN and is a critical care nurse. They and well trained paramedics are the top of the line first responders. A critical care RN is licensed and educated, trained to do things above a paramedic. I respect Paramedics, have known many in ER rooms in NYC to out perform MD's in their first year. A critical care RN is top in the ER, above all other first responders except trauma teams working as a single unit.

Yes, BSN RN'S are legally licensed as first responders.

Where is this fact you are speaking about written?

Your ID says you are a Dr. but you don't know that a BSN RN holds the same license as an ADN RN and that neither are "legally licensed" as first responders as each state that issues a nursing license has its own scope of practice defined and it has nothing to do with the college degree of the RN only what the Board of Nursing in that state wants all RNs licensed in their state to be responsible for.

Do you think that a BSN RN graduates nursing school with all the knowledge needed to be a medical first responder but an ADN RN does not? How is that?

[Kitiger, RN]

I'd say the 4 biggest differences between nurses and first responders are scene safety, the lack of specialized medical equipment, the fact that the first responder (and partner?) are on their own, and the fact that the patient has not yet been diagnosed by a doctor.

My nursing education was almost all with hospitalized patients. We had a one-day first aide class as freshmen, and we did a little community health nursing. Even our psych patients were hospitalized. That is why I took a Medical First Responder (MFR) class as an RN. The fire-fighters in my class taught me a lot! We respected each other, and we learned together.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

blondy2061h said:

Even being a rapid response nurse in a hospital is not the same as being a paramedic. You still have more equipment, better access to higher levels of care and testing, and you don't have to brave the elements or have the safety concerns of being outside.

Hmm, not quite. Our hospital is on a 100 acre campus and includes non hospital buildings like class rooms and offices and transitional living units for rehab.

When I respond to a chest pain or trauma (think slippery ice and cars hitting pedestrians) call during a blizzard, slogging through two feet of snow at the far end of the campus with nothing but the supplies in my emergency pack, the job can be very similar to a paramedic's job (but of course making about 3x $$ what a paramedic does).

In my previous job as critical care transport nurse (ground and air ambulance) we often did scene calls where the RN, as team leader, will preform and supervise extraction from a wrecked car, or tractor, boat, even aircraft one time. One of the fun parts of that job was that in our system where our EMS and fire departments are made up of volunteers, the transport RN becomes scene commander when they arrive. Giving orders to cops can be fun.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Dr Williams said:

Advanced trained BSN Nurses, Critical Care, ICU, ICU stepdown are in fact first responders. At 911 these specialist nurses were called in and are way above the average office or floor nurse. Depending on their education, advanced training and assessment, they are the top of the line first responders. The nurses I've described are used in life flight, critical care as a normal part of their career. Yes, BSN advanced critical care Nurses are in fact first responders. They're many positions within nursing. I'd ask if the RN has a BSN and is a critical care nurse. They and well trained paramedics are the top of the line first responders. A critical care RN is licensed and educated, trained to do things above a paramedic. I respect Paramedics, have known many in ER rooms in NYC to out perform MD's in their first year. A critical care RN is top in the ER, above all other first responders except trauma teams working as a single unit.

Yes, BSN RN'S are legally licensed as first responders.

You are so severely misinformed I don't even know where to start.

[CelticGoddess, BSN, RN]

Dr Williams said:

Advanced trained BSN Nurses, Critical Care, ICU, ICU stepdown are in fact first responders. At 911 these specialist nurses were called in and are way above the average office or floor nurse. Depending on their education, advanced training and assessment, they are the top of the line first responders. The nurses I've described are used in life flight, critical care as a normal part of their career. Yes, BSN advanced critical care Nurses are in fact first responders. They're many positions within nursing. I'd ask if the RN has a BSN and is a critical care nurse. They and well trained paramedics are the top of the line first responders. A critical care RN is licensed and educated, trained to do things above a paramedic. I respect Paramedics, have known many in ER rooms in NYC to out perform MD's in their first year. A critical care RN is top in the ER, above all other first responders except trauma teams working as a single unit.

Yes, BSN RN'S are legally licensed as first responders.

My husband is a retired paramedic. He was a first responder and when I read this post to him, he laughed. I am a BSN-RN. I am NOT a first responder because I am not trained on how to clear a scene, I do not know how to treat and stabilize in the field and I have not been trained in emergency first aid. I am a nurse. And my license does not make it legal for me to go out on an ambulance and act as a first responder.

My husband has had to go into burning buildings to rescue victims, he has scaled the side of walls and cliffs, he has had to dive into water. He was gone to an active shooting scene(he did have to wait for the scene to be cleared, and still go shot at) and other such fun things first responders deal with. I don't have to deal with on a regular basis. Yes, I get violent patients, yes we have had an active shooter. That does not mean I am qualified to be a first responder.

I also found your post that those of us who work in non critical areas are somehow lacking to be offensive. I work with a rather fragile medical population that even critical care nurses without the extra training can't work with. I am an onc nurse and to do my job, I need chemo certification so that I can safely hang chemo on my, yes, critically ill patients. My position is neither soft or a "lack of motivation" issue. If you think so, I suggest you take the chemo certification then come and tell me how I am lacking in motivation or have taken the "soft" route. I strive to do my best every day, I learn something new every day.

I doubt seriously you are either an MD or a nurse. A nurse wouldn't spew that much junk. And the MD's I know don't have the audacity to say that I am unmotivated.

[Jeana18, MSN, DNP, RN, APRN, NP]

I certainly do think that ER nurses should be considered first responders. It's a tough job and many times we are still the first to respond. Along with our EMS partners :)

[Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN]

Quote

Advanced trained BSN Nurses, Critical Care, ICU, ICU stepdown are in fact first responders.

I'll bite too.

I'm an ICU nurse and am no way a first responder. I happen to have a BSN, but that program was soooooo not first responder training... I learned about public health, informatics, leadership, and most cutting-edge of all: Modeling and Role Modeling Nursing Theory.

I learned ALL of my critical care content in my ADN program and on the job.

In the field, I can hold c-spines, apply pressure to bleeding, and start BLS until the first responders arrive.

[RNnTRNG]

Nurses are first responders...maybe not on the street. But in a hospital...when there is a code nurses, along with doctors, and RTs are first on the scene:yes:

[sallyrnrrt, ADN, RN]

That Guy said:

Throw a nurse into an actual first response scene and you will find your answer quickly.

After 45 years, I have first responder skills.....and I have had to apply outside of hospital and before ens arrives

[sallyrnrrt, ADN, RN]

PMFB-RN said:

You are so severely misinformed I don't even know where to start.

Amd my many are not

[Jeana18, MSN, DNP, RN, APRN, NP]

I will have to add that just because someone has a BSN does not make them more qualified to handle "first responder" issues. I think it comes with time, experience, and situation.