Are FNP salaries in family practice really this low?

tonet0908 · Dec 21, 2014

Listen, you incorporated yourself into a conversation that had nothing to do with what you were talking about. You made something that had nothing to do with you all about you. We were talking about FL and here you come starting a war where their was none. You are the exact reason why FL has a problem with us NPs. Yes, you are an arrogant, no nothing, no it all. I don't need to prove anything to you, who are you? The only evidence I'm going to work on right now is the evidence to finish my Morificecript that I need to finish for my brick and mortar DNP program.

guest769224 · Dec 21, 2014

You are the exact reason why FL has a problem with us NPs. Yes, you are an arrogant, no nothing, no it all

You are being awfully sharp, while the PP is remaining civil and collected. And if you are in a doctorate program, you need to brush up on your grammar mistakes. I hope you don't speak this way to your patients, you need to curb the temper.

tonet0908 · Dec 21, 2014

Hahaha!

Riburn3, BSN, MSN, APRN, NP · Dec 21, 2014

Hi AutomotiveRN67,
I totally agree with everything you said, I personally feel a bit disgruntled about those online degree programs because I chose to go to a traditional program for all 3 of my degrees. I sat in class for 4 years for the BSN, 2.5 years for the MSN and now I'm finishing up the 3.5 it takes for the DNP. I feel highly offended that someone else can just sit at home for a few months it seems and get the same title and salary as me. Kind of like the get rich schemes. Don't get me wrong, I understand everyone has their own situations and have to do what they have to do but still.

So show me what this has to do with Florida? I read your previous post regarding your move to Florida, which highlights the disparity in APRN practice from state to state very well, but this above I take issue with. I argue my point through logic and reason in a civil manner, asking for evidence, and you retort by name calling and telling me I'm a "no it all". It's shameful. Disagreements happen but there is no need for what you are doing.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Dec 21, 2014

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allnurses Guide · Dec 21, 2014

The problem isn't (all) online programs, but they have become the "face" of the problem. The real problem is the glut of "cheap, fast, and easy" NP programs with lax admissions and graduation requirements that churn out poorly prepared novice NPs. This is a problem with both B&M programs and online programs alike.

Contributing to this problem is the preceptor issue, which is as bad or worse. Online programs often are blamed for this too. My office will no longer take online NP students because of several bad experiences with students showing up with no graduate level hands on physical assessment skills. Likewise we won't accept a local B&M program either.

There are some fabulous online programs. There are some awful B&M programs. As a profession we need to clean this up before NP outcomes start tanking which will give physicians all they need to ensure no independent practice.

Sent from my iPhone.

Riburn3, BSN, MSN, APRN, NP · Dec 22, 2014

Thank you Boston, I truly agree with your statement.

I went to a state public university that has an online MSN program, where I still had to meet several times during my program in person with other classmates to go over skills. I also met my instructors in person throughout our clinical rotations. In terms of finding clinical preceptors, while I did find my own (and am glad I did), the school made a a strong effort to assist us if we needed help. When my Women's Health preceptor changed specialties, the director of my program provided me with a list of individuals willing to precept. We were also required to receive several hundred hours of clinical over the state and national certifying board recommendations.

I contrast this to a coworker that applied to a large for profit online school because of her poor academic credentials. She has never met a single instructor, never learned skills such as suturing in person, and has received zero assistance in finding preceptors. Her fellow classmates that struggle to get a preceptor are left to the wayside. She was also only required to get 500 clinical hours, basically the bare minimum for Texas and the certifying boards.

I feel like this perfectly highlights your point that there are good and schools, no matter their format. This is why I dislike broad generalizations that people make about online schools. Although some might be bad, not all are, and when individuals (fellow nurses) belittle others in their profession because of their chosen education path, it literally does nothing to make us better. IF it turns out that certain schools are churning out poor graduates that are impacting practice negatively, then it should absolutely be addressed. However, when people presume online education is inferior in the face of absolutely no evidence, it adds nothing to the argument.

TheOldGuy · Dec 22, 2014

10 yrs?

Its actually 2 yrs in didactic, the rest is clinical. After the 2nd clinical yr, they get paid - and can earn more moonlighting.

Medicine is starting to establish 3 yr programs where 2 yrs would be didactic and the 3rd yr clinical. Many of their courses (including at Stanford) are delivered online.

I went to an online school - outstanding program with both synchronous and asynchronous delivery. Proctored exams. I'd match it with any B&M.

I'm in psychiatry. I have the highest productivity and patient satisfaction scores of any provider in the clinic where I work. I am the only NP - everybody else is an MD. I am the "go to" guy when the other providers have a medical question (their only experience was in school)....

Jules A, MSN · Dec 22, 2014

Hi AutomotiveRN67,
Salary, now that's another case on it's own. I still believe a lot of employers and Physicians just see the word "Nurse" when they look at the title NP. You could explain what it is and the scope of your practice until you are blue in the face but all they can see is a glorified Nurse so that's how they treat and pay you. They understand what a PA is so they will turn around and reimburse them more than they do an NP. (I have nothing against PA's I have been working with them throughout my entire career as a team, colleagues and friends).

I do not negotiate. I present my salary requirements right up front and if that isn't acceptable they can find someone else. It isn't personal its business and I am just as happy to say "thank you but no thank you" and move along. On occasion I have mentioned that I am fully aware of the Locum rates when they come at me with ridiculous offer.

Jules A, MSN · Dec 22, 2014

Smarter ARNP's are willing to start low for the experience. Believe me, sitting in an ICU job as an ARNP may be paying the bills, but doesn't bring anything to the table.

I agree that working as a RN doesn't make sense but disagree that smart NPs take a low paying job in this field in an effort to gain experience or whatever. How often does a low starting salary end up as a great paying position? They might throw a bone here and there but unlikely a major increase and without a solid salary history what new employer is going to offer serious money? One of the reasons I continue to make a high salary is because I can support my salary requirements with documentation of past and present positions.

Instead of settling I would urge NP students to cultivate their prospective employment while still in school. View clinical experiences as prolonged job interviews, find out what other NPs are making and take the time to find a job that does in fact pay a respectable rate depending on the geographic area and specialty.

Riburn3, BSN, MSN, APRN, NP · Dec 22, 2014

Great points about salary requirements and info for new nurses Jules_A.

I think one of the issues newer NP's have is they just don't know what they should be making, or what they should be generating. On top of that, being an NP starting in several regions is a lot like being a new RN. You cling to the first job offer you get, then in a year or two use it as a spring board to something better.

Had this website not existed, I would have had no clue that I would need to negotiate CME, licensure fees, etc when I got my first job. Considering a huge chunk of new grads likely don't use this site or do their research, they walk into a negotiation blind, and that's why we hear about such low ball offers. I'm certainly thankful for an online community that can share their experiences and knowledge for the betterment of APRN's.

allnurses Guide · Dec 25, 2014

I really don't understand the vitriol or superior attitude about B&M programs vs online programs. I went to a B&M program for my MSN, but honestly, what's the difference with "online" programs except that you don't sit there at lectures? I barely went to lectures anyhow - I don't find them useful, my teachers sent out the slides in advances, I went when needed for exams or if I had an issue with something. Online is just a delivery method like classroom teaching or anything else. You still have to do clinicals, physical exam and assessment etc in person for the required number of hours. Just another case of nurses (or NPs) fighting amongst ourselves instead of focusing on things we can and should change.