We were discussing the Disneryland measles outbreak at work, and I was appalled to find some of my co-workers refuse to vaccinate their kids. They (grudgingly) receive the vaccines they need to remain employed, but doubt their safety/necessity for their kids.
I must say, I am absolutley stunned. How can one be a nurse and deny science?
As a nurse, you should darn well know what the scientific method entails and what phrases such as "evidence based" and "peer reviewed" mean.
I have to say, I have lost most of my respect for the nurses and mistrust their judgement; after all, if they deny science, on what premise are they basing their practices?
It's interesting at what you all zone in on in my posts. I post some good points, yet you focus on trivial stuff like how I said I stay 3 feet away from sick people. Now it's about the gov. Sheesh. You're right. We won't get anywhere. We will have to agree to disagree.
I represent a growing number of people though. This message board has been very heavy in your favor; however, there are plenty more people out there who are beginning to question vaccines. There are many questioning a lot about our society. I feel we are on the verge of something new. More people will demand a more focused or functional medicine approach to healthcare. The current system is not working. More people are becoming aware of what is in their food and how it is affecting their health. More people than ever want a natural approach to their healthcare. Many take care of themselves in such a way so that they can avoid the doctor as much as possible. Pay the farmer or pay the doctor. It's true.
I am great nurse regardless. I take great care of my patients. People who know me know this. I care about health. I care about other peoples health. I don't feel conventional health care offers enough by the way of wellness and holistic care. I think there needs to be lots of improvements in healthcare. There is too much focus on pushing pills and not enough focus on actually solving the problem. If that was working, we wouldn't see so many sick people. It's not working. It's an old system, and it needs to be updated.
So would you take Tums or recommend it during pregnancy? Tums has less of a safety rating than these recommended vaccines and has less studies showing it is safe in pregnancy.
I have figured it out! It isn't the vaccines increasing autism. It is those dang antacids. The calcium crosses the placenta binds to the Ca++ ion channels in the brain through the non-intact blood brain barrier causing intermittent antagonization of developing neurons thus making incomplete neuronal synapses...
Since the last research on the subject I read said that the development occurs in utero, this is far more likely than anything Wakefield and the anti-vaxxers have claimed.... Now if you could just get a bimbo playmate to go on national tv and make that claim we would be getting somewhere!
If the study says it's good, it must be good. Really? Again, data can be twisted. Again, sometimes personal observation is evidence enough.
No, with respect to science and public health and policy, personal observation is never enough and should never be enough. In fact, that statement is further evidence that you have ZERO credible data to back up any of your batty assertions. Anyone who has credible data from research which is performed according to established protocols and which has been replicated over and over by other researchers across the globe would NEVER need to make such an idiotic, perfectly asinine statement.
Guys, I told you, this gal is just too darned easy to discredit. Her POV is a disgrace to the nursing profession, which operates on the principle of evidence based practice-evidence collected according to the scientific method, which can withstand scrutiny, and most importantly can be reproduced again and again.
The body or work she has presented on this forum is a fraud and therefore I think she is most likely an internet troll, though she doesn't even do that particularly well. It's laughable.
I represent a growing number of people though. This message board has been very heavy in your favor; however, there are plenty more people out there who are beginning to question vaccines.
Not anymore. Thanks to the Disneyland outbreak, people are seeing measles come back for real and are realizing their "questioning" was built on a house of cards. I'm confident in saying that the ranks of anti-vaxxers are shrinking this year.
Andi, I have not read anything yet that you have written that would compel me to think differently about vaccination. I am also afraid of the idea that you are of a growing number of people rejecting the same advances that protect and promote health and quality of life. I don't deny that healthy food and sanitation are largely to credit for increased health and life expectancy. But they aren't the sole causes. There is a balance between natural living and accepting science. To reject the balance between the two is to reject the education you received in school, to reject the nursing process, and to reject what the majority of us here know to be true. We don't believe it. We know it. You need to get pulled to critical care floors a few times during flu season. You'll change your tune quickly.
I represent a growing number of people though. This message board has been very heavy in your favor; however, there are plenty more people out there who are beginning to question vaccines.
That's because this message board is full of educated individuals who are not pathetically gullible and take "I feels" and "I believes" as evidence, who don't refer to or list mommy blogs in a bibliography; the membership here are largely professionals who demand that assertions be proved through research which is conducted properly, and are people who know how to recognize dishonest claims backed up by nothing. They don't fall for the tripe that the "the gubmint" is out to poison their youth, or that "Big Pharma" would prefer to pin their hopes of profit on the pittance that vaccines bring in vs. the billions which could be wrestled out of our pockets by letting us get sick and charging us out the wazoo for the medicines to treat the illnesses which could have been prevented with a cheap vaccine.
The same cannot be said for society at large, whose critical thinking skills become embarrassingly obvious any time you read the comment section of an article about pretty much any subject.
It's interesting at what you all zone in on in my posts. I post some good points, yet you focus on trivial stuff like how I said I stay 3 feet away from sick people. Now it's about the gov. Sheesh. You're right. We won't get anywhere. We will have to agree to disagree.
I represent a growing number of people though. This message board has been very heavy in your favor; however, there are plenty more people out there who are beginning to question vaccines. There are many questioning a lot about our society. I feel we are on the verge of something new. More people will demand a more focused or functional medicine approach to healthcare. The current system is not working. More people are becoming aware of what is in their food and how it is affecting their health. More people than ever want a natural approach to their healthcare. Many take care of themselves in such a way so that they can avoid the doctor as much as possible. Pay the farmer or pay the doctor. It's true.
I am great nurse regardless. I take great care of my patients. People who know me know this. I care about health. I care about other peoples health. I don't feel conventional health care offers enough by the way of wellness and holistic care. I think there needs to be lots of improvements in healthcare. There is too much focus on pushing pills and not enough focus on actually solving the problem. If that was working, we wouldn't see so many sick people. It's not working. It's an old system, and it needs to be updated.
Actually, the tide is turning against anti-vaccine people. Everyone is getting tired of vaccine-preventable disease outbreaks that occur d/t this anti-vaccine ideology.
The only reason you think there is an increase is because you frequent holistic and anti-vaccine websites with like minded people such as yourself.
I am at a loss on what you consider a great nurse. In my mind a great nurse takes evidence based research and applies that to his or her patients the best they can. You can deeply care about your patients and pass medications on time and still not be a great nurse.
There are no cures for some disease processes and their probably never will be unless we can stop aging. Homeopathy does not work. It does not even make sense why that would work. There a plenty of complimentary/alternative treatment that do have beneficial effects though such as massage therapy, yoga, acupuncture and in everyone of those cases those complimentary medical treatment have been shown to work through research. I know this since the NIH is one of biggest places that funds and does research on these alternate medical practices. It just goes to show you that the same government you claim doesn't do enough for "holistic" care spends the most money for research on it.
It's interesting at what you all zone in on in my posts. I post some good points, yet you focus on trivial stuff like how I said I stay 3 feet away from sick people. Now it's about the gov. Sheesh. You're right. We won't get anywhere. We will have to agree to disagree.
I represent a growing number of people though. This message board has been very heavy in your favor; however, there are plenty more people out there who are beginning to question vaccines.
Actually, I believe the recent outbreaks have pushed society in the other direction. National polls indicate a major shift in public opinion against allowing people to opt out of vaccines.
There are many questioning a lot about our society. I feel we are on the verge of something new. More people will demand a more focused or functional medicine approach to healthcare. The current system is not working. More people are becoming aware of what is in their food and how it is affecting their health. More people than ever want a natural approach to their healthcare. Many take care of themselves in such a way so that they can avoid the doctor as much as possible.
No one is disputing that people would rather not go to the doctor, or be sick. No one has disputed that better nutrition and more preventative care would be a better thing. The belief that it can replace vaccines is indisputably wrong however. The belief that it can cure AI diseases is indisputably wrong. Like other conditions that are triggered by environmental aspects, it can reduce triggers, but that doesn't cure a disease condition.
Pay the farmer or pay the doctor. It's true.
I am great nurse regardless. I take great care of my patients.
I'm sure you care greatly for your patients, I'm very, very concerned that you give your patients information that is very misleading, and quite frankly harmful to their health because you refuse to believe what is known about certain medications. When you present falsehoods like you have here, and like you have reported you tell your patients, and those falsehoods about medications cause them to make a poor decision that can affect their health, that is not an acceptable way to care for patients. It is this concern that I find most troubling from everything you have said here.
People who know me know this. I care about health. I care about other peoples health. I don't feel conventional health care offers enough by the way of wellness and holistic care. I think there needs to be lots of improvements in healthcare. There is too much focus on pushing pills and not enough focus on actually solving the problem. If that was working, we wouldn't see so many sick people. It's not working. It's an old system, and it needs to be updated.
It's great to think that healthy eating, and preventative care will solve our healthcare problems, but the reality is that it will only solve some of the problems for some of the people. There are a great many who will not eat a "healthy" diet, even if we could get everyone to agree on what that "healthy" diet is. There are a great number of people who will not exercise regularly. I'm not suggesting that promoting those things wouldn't be a good investment, and I do believe for those that got the message, it could do great things. However, that debate is for a totally different thread, there is no doubt that nutrition is not going to eradicate measles or any of the other vaccine preventable diseases.
It has been proved beyond a reasonable doubt. You posted that you understood basic science and are highly educated right? So you understand what statistical significance means then....
Dr. Peter Venkman: Ray, pretend for a moment that I don't know anything about metallurgy, engineering, or physics, and just tell me what the hell is going on.
I doubt that. I am amazed at how many go along with various scientific studies, claiming it as truth, when there has been evidence of scientists twisting the data. This can happen especially by those who take a special interest in the study group itself.
You doubt it based on what? What is your evidence?
You are amazed that so many people just go along with science? Instead of what? Conjecture?
Holistic12, BSN
124 Posts
It's interesting at what you all zone in on in my posts. I post some good points, yet you focus on trivial stuff like how I said I stay 3 feet away from sick people. Now it's about the gov. Sheesh. You're right. We won't get anywhere. We will have to agree to disagree.
I represent a growing number of people though. This message board has been very heavy in your favor; however, there are plenty more people out there who are beginning to question vaccines. There are many questioning a lot about our society. I feel we are on the verge of something new. More people will demand a more focused or functional medicine approach to healthcare. The current system is not working. More people are becoming aware of what is in their food and how it is affecting their health. More people than ever want a natural approach to their healthcare. Many take care of themselves in such a way so that they can avoid the doctor as much as possible. Pay the farmer or pay the doctor. It's true.
I am great nurse regardless. I take great care of my patients. People who know me know this. I care about health. I care about other peoples health. I don't feel conventional health care offers enough by the way of wellness and holistic care. I think there needs to be lots of improvements in healthcare. There is too much focus on pushing pills and not enough focus on actually solving the problem. If that was working, we wouldn't see so many sick people. It's not working. It's an old system, and it needs to be updated.