We were discussing the Disneryland measles outbreak at work, and I was appalled to find some of my co-workers refuse to vaccinate their kids. They (grudgingly) receive the vaccines they need to remain employed, but doubt their safety/necessity for their kids.
I must say, I am absolutley stunned. How can one be a nurse and deny science?
As a nurse, you should darn well know what the scientific method entails and what phrases such as "evidence based" and "peer reviewed" mean.
I have to say, I have lost most of my respect for the nurses and mistrust their judgement; after all, if they deny science, on what premise are they basing their practices?
What kind of nurse do you plan on being if you stay at least 3' from sick people?
Flu's not scary? Have you managed a pediatric flu case yet? Didn't think so. Do you know what droplet and airborne precautions are? Didn't think so.
There isn't a vaccine for heart disease or cancer, so you can't make that comparison.
Finally, are you saying you can't use science to believe in something while using science to argue why you believe in something?
I'm an RN on a Med/Surg unit. When someone comes in with certain symptoms, we implement various precaution measures. Does it make you feel powerful to speak to me with disrespect? I get that impression. I have worked in this setting for almost 2 years, and have not been sick except for a cold once. It's because I wash my hands, wear proper precautions etc. I think some nurses have a lot to work on in the hand-washing area. They eat at the desk, touch the keyboard, then their mouths, never a thought to what they are doing.
Sorry but standing 3 feet away from people, let alone as nurse, is not feasible in the hand scheme of things.
That is why precautions are set in place when patients get to the unit. I wear a mask during patient care. Everyone is supposed to. Do your places of work not implement such things?
As for the formaldehyde and aluminum, I avoid it as much as possible. We are exposed to enough chemicals in our environment. I'm not going to knowingly add more to the mix.
It's statements like this that make it impossible to believe you are actually researching this using reputable science and research.
If you refuse to knowingly introduce "chemicals" such as formaldehyde into your body, I sure hope you don't eat.
Meat and meat productsFood type Level (mg/kg)Beef 4.6Pig 5.8 – 20Sheep 8Poultry 2.5 – 5.7Processed meat products(including ham and sausages)≤ 20.7Liver paste ≤ 11.9 2
Foods Known to Contain Naturally Occurring Formaldehyde (Continued)III. Dairy productsFood type Level (mg/kg)Goat's Milk 1Cow's Milk ≤ 3.3Cheese ≤ 3.3IV. SeafoodFood type Level (mg/kg)Cod 4.6 – 34Shrimp (raw) 1 – 2.4Squid 1.8Fish ball 6.8Crustacean 1 – 98Bombay-duck ≤ 140
Formaldehyde was also reported in studies to develop after death in marine fish andcrustaceans and accumulate during the frozen storage of some fish species. Its levels canbe as high as 400 mg/kg in Bombay-duck after cold storage.V. OthersFood type Level (mg/kg)Alcoholic beverage 0.02 – 3.8Soft drinks 8.7Brewed coffee 3.4 – 4.5Instant coffee 10 – 16
Part of being a responsible nurse is being able to admit when you are wrong. The amount of formaldehyde in a vaccine is minute, is not distinguishable from that the human body produces naturally (and NEEDS for metabolic processes) and is cleared in very short order. It is NOT dangerous.
You need to concede this point because you are absolutely wrong.
That is why precautions are set in place when patients get to the unit. I wear a mask during patient care. Everyone is supposed to. Do your places of work not implement such things?
Knowing basic A&P and microbiology, MOST people do not appear infectious during the first stages of infection, surely you know that.
Knowing how a infectious disease should have covered much in depth with your public health course in nursing school.
I work in a Pedi ER, and have worked with children the bulk of my years as a nurse, including in the PICU. Most develop infections that I am vaccinated against, and have devolved it before they had a change to be vaccinated, and deviled and umbrella term called "cerebral palsy".
I have seen the down falls and the squelae of infectious diseases to the children I have care for.
"The flu is not a scary disease." Yeah sure, tell that to the elders and peds who DIE of it every year! And having watched my young, healthy mid30's husband who eats well and works out at least 4 times a week become weak as a newborn thanks to H1N1, I'm actually angry that anyone would say anything so atrociously stupid and disrespectful. (He's fine, BTW, but that was three weeks of hell and it took him at least six weeks to get back to normal.)
Specializes in Med nurse in med-surg., float, HH, and PDN.
I am not one to never question something. The CDC is not God. They are a body of humans, and last I knew, humans make mistakes. I will always question everything. Just because they apply the scientific method doesn't mean that something could distort their findings. I also look at who is funding studies because if a group has a special interest in a particular study, you can bet the data will be skewed or biased. I look at things from all angles.
Let's talk about the FDA. They release drugs out to the public saying they are "safe." Later, word gets out that it has caused harm and the drug is pulled. So did science fail there? Hmmmm. Their data says it's safe, but then its not?
Well, for that matter, just about everything you read about in the PDR says "It is not known how_______works: It is thought that ___________." Doesn't give you much confidence because nearly every drug description reads that way. And yet we continue to give medications and take medications. Do you go through the PDR with the same due diligence as applied to vaccinations?
I would imagine there are those who say they do +/or believe in all-natural treatment. But doesn't homeopathic work the same as vaccines, by introducing small, minute​ amounts of the very thing it treats against, plus a few other inexplicable (to us) ingredients that there might be reason for?
"The flu is not a scary disease." Yeah sure, tell that to the elders and peds who DIE of it every year! And having watched my young, healthy mid30's husband who eats well and works out at least 4 times a week become weak as a newborn thanks to H1N1, I'm actually angry that anyone would say anything so atrociously stupid and disrespectful. (He's fine, BTW, but that was three weeks of hell and it took him at least six weeks to get back to normal.)
The flu is definitely a deadly disease! Who would think otherwise?? Every year several of my severe asthma patients end up in ICU intubated, because of flu. A couple have died. Saying it isn't scary or deadly is just. plain. stupid.
Specializes in Med nurse in med-surg., float, HH, and PDN.
Besides which, our bodies work WITH small amounts of introduced virus' and bacteria TO BUILD UP ANTIBODIES AGAINST those things. It's HOW the body was made to work. Some of the antibody building happens naturally, over time, without you even being aware of it. Some need a little boost from the medical field with a needle.
The flu is definitely a deadly disease! Who would think otherwise?? Every year several of my severe asthma patients end up in ICU intubated, because of flu. A couple have died. Saying it isn't scary or deadly is just. plain. stupid.
Emphasis is mine.
Well, andi78 for one.
Oh wait. She said it's not scary, not that it's not deadly. So it's deadly, but not scary, because cancer kills more people every year.
"Vero Cells (African Green Monkey Cells)cells derived from the kidney of a normal, adult African Green monkey in 1962 by Y. Yasumura and Y. Kawakita"
Vero cells are used in the manufacturing of several vaccines in a technique known as cell culture, specifically with continuous cell lines. The cells are used as a substrate. They are not included in the vaccine as the vaccines are purified as part of the process. If you look at your own link above, you will notice that vero cells are not listed in the ingredients of any of the vaccines. Again, as you have said multiple times that you have a deeper understanding of this than the rest of us, I am sure you know this.
As for the formaldehyde and aluminum, I avoid it as much as possible. We are exposed to enough chemicals in our environment. I'm not going to knowingly add more to the mix.
If you combine DTaP, HIB, influenza, and HepB vaccines all together (a typical 6mo injection) there is 30.7 micrograms of formaldehyde. A single apple contains 400-500 micrgrams. Our body produces so much that adults have 4,00-5,000 micrograms in our blood at any given time. So stay away from fruit. And meat. And most vegetables.
I like how many always claim science as their reason to believe something. There is science that can prove vaccines are unsafe, and there is science that can prove vaccines are safe. It comes down to the person and what they are comfortable with. If the benefit vs. risk ratio isn't good enough, they will decline. To me, that is thoughtfully thinking about vaccination. Many just go to the doctor and do whatever they are told. When you can't sue a vaccine company for damages, a red flag goes up in my mind.
Post some large studies that show vaccines are not safe. If you have science on your side please share it. Anti-vaxxers talk a lot about science but can never produce any of it.
As for handwashing, yes it works! I never got the flu vac and never will. I stay at least 3 feet away from those sick and don't touch my face. If you were interested to see data, you could find it. The flu is not a scary illness. How about heart disease or cancer? Those kill more people every year than the flu ever will.
Yes lets see your data. You are talking to nurses here who don't have the luxury of "staying 3ft away from those sick". The flu kills about 57,000 per year. While heart disease and cancer kill 10 times that number, 57k is still pretty scary to me, and if you want to be a nurse, it should be scary to you too. AIDS kills 13k and Ebola killed 2 and I think most lay people would be scared of those as well.
Holistic12, BSN
124 Posts
I'm an RN on a Med/Surg unit. When someone comes in with certain symptoms, we implement various precaution measures. Does it make you feel powerful to speak to me with disrespect? I get that impression. I have worked in this setting for almost 2 years, and have not been sick except for a cold once. It's because I wash my hands, wear proper precautions etc. I think some nurses have a lot to work on in the hand-washing area. They eat at the desk, touch the keyboard, then their mouths, never a thought to what they are doing.