ANA rec BSN vs ASN

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I've been thinking about this lately; When we were in school, the head of program was very passionate about nurses joining the ANA-something like less than 5% of all nurses are members, and if we all joined "what a voice we would have" in politics and policy. I do plan to get to a BSN-eventually, maybe-but I am 42 with three teens and their college looming-so who knows? I really agree with this-we need to use our numbers for power. I understand that raising the level of education might raise the overall respect and pay-but most patients don't know what degree you have-they judge you by your care and outcomes. But, I also keep thinking-"Why should I support a group who basically thinks that that I am too underqualified and undereducated to be a good nurse?" Because all rhetoric about being pro-nurse aside, that's what they mean..

What do you think?

Specializes in Critical Care.
In my ADN program, we were educated as nurses-not ADNs vs BSN but nurses. The head of our program was the Pres. of the BON in our state-we have the highest NCLEX passing rate in our entire state-above University of Maryland, John Hopkins, Towson, etc-And the majority of us pass in 75 questions-we are obviously well educated.

You go to HCC in Columbia? That's where I graduated and w/ 90 grads a year on average, in 1991 they had 100% pass rate, 1992 - 100% pass rate and 1993 (year I grad) -98% pass rate = 1 failure in 3 yrs (wasn't me!) Best program in the Nation, IMHO - BSN or ADN.

Regarding the Gop led globalization remark that stated NAFTA is ruining us: CLINTON SIGNED NAFTA.

~faith

Timothy.

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Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.

topic is: ana rec bsn vs asn

from the few opposing point of views and the many posts here on the bb, it appears we can rarely reach consensus on any issue. many persons seem to have a poor understanding of our professional association and are not being taught the history of our profession.

1. ana's overarching goal is that

"nursing will be the acknowledged unifying force advancing quality health for all."

the work of ana: what we do: annual stakeholders report

stake04.jpg

ana focuses its work on core issues of vital concern to the nation's registered nurses - nursing shortage, appropriate staffing, health and safety, workplace rights and patient safety/advocacy in addition to its cornerstone work, ethics and standards. in this section of nursingworld, ana shares with you what it is doing to address these core issues for you and your patients.

annual stakeholders report 2004

2. history of nursing and ana

voices from the past, visions of the future: ana's centennial presentation

3. the american journal of nursing, the official journal of the american nurses association, is owned and published monthly by lippincott, williams, and wilkins, philadelphia, pa.

while ana does directly publish some columns in the journal, it does not have editorial control over the overall content of the journal. ana currently publishes the following columns in the journal: "politics of caring," "issues update," and "health & safety." http://nursingworld.org/ajn/

4. anamembership information

full membership : full voitng rights at state and national level. ana has one fee + state + district membership fees. cost varies by state, more expensve in those states that have collective barganing.

one can choose to be a member outside of the state you reside in; however this option limits your ability to influence nursing at your local level. because pa doe not have collective bargaining, dues are less. monthly direct deposit for my district/state/ana membership is less than $30.

direct individual membership direct ana individual members receive full member benefits at the national level but not benefits at the state level. thireteen states have permitted this membership option. fee: $171.00

individual affiliate membership no voting rights but receive ana info. for rns who can not afford to join ana at this time but still want to support the important work of the profession... individual affiliate members receive limited benefits and can access the members only web site of nursingworld.org. fee: $25.00

https://nursingworld.org/memapp/index.cfm

4.bsn proposal

online journals of issues in nursing (ojin) adressed the bsn entry debate first proposed in 1965 in [color=#808000]volume 7, number 2: 2002 issue:

articles on entry into practice: is it relevant today?

  1. revisiting the american nurses association's first position on education for nurses (donley. r.; flaherty, m.j.) may 31, 2002
  2. the relevance of associate degree nursing education: past, present, future (mahaffey, e.) may 31, 2002
  3. education for professional nursing practice: looking backward into the future (nelson, m.) may 31, 2002
  4. education for entry into nursing practice: revisited for the 21st century (joel, l.) may 31, 2002

hope this info will be helpful to you

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Specializes in Telemetry, Med/Surg.

Regarding the Gop led globalization remark that stated NAFTA is ruining us: CLINTON SIGNED NAFTA.

~faith

Timothy.

Absolutely. Which is why I voted 3rd party that year -- I mean, it seemed there were two republicans running in '96, and I never vote republican. I believe he had also signed DOMA his first term, too.

People have said a lot of things about the Democrats -- why the working class left the party. Some have said it was the liberal issues, etc., but the Democratic party had been "liberal" since the '60's, but the workers always stayed with them -- because the Dems always supported the working class first and foremost.

Clinton shocked labor leaders, not only in the unions, but among rank and file Democrats in Congress when signed onto the Republican led NAFTA program (Bush I had proposed it, but couldn't get it through a Democratic Congress). He was able to cobble together a few Democrats to sign it -- along with the Republican minority -- who were all too eager. When he sold out the worker, what other purpose did they have to remain with the party?

The Democrats lost Congress the next year, and the only major election we've won since then was the Clinton re-election.

Don't really think alot of his "legacy," but I'm not a moderate or centrist I'll probably vote for his wife anyway.

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Specializes in Telemetry, Med/Surg.
Topic is: ANA rec BSN vs ASN

From the few opposing point of views and the many posts here on the bb, it appears we can rarely reach consensus on any issue. Many persons seem to have a poor understanding of our professional association AND are not being taught the history of our profession.

ANA does a lot for the perception of profession of nursing, but I really don't see what they've done to improve the reality of nursing -- especially when it comes to workplace issues which DO have an impact on quality care. The CNA has accomplished more in its short history than the entire history of the ANA. I've been a nurse for 10 years, and the only thing I've seen is "strong position statements" from the ANA -- which is the equivalent of dealing with nursing problems with a wet noodle.

Follow, lead, or get out of the way -- and the ANA hasn't been a leader, and it's a mistake to blame "nurses" for not seeing another version of "reality." People know you by your work -- and that explains the reason most nurses don't believe that the ANA hasn't done anything for them. They say alot, but they haven't really done anything.

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
I agree Deb completely. In fact the last bits of my paper I discuss that there is really little benefit to obtaining a BSN completion unless one is looking to better themselves in position or for further education. I have researcht hat backs that little tidbit up.

This was my concluding paragraph. Financial issues are not taken into account in this scenario though.

In my opinion, there is room for the ADN, BSN, and MSN nurses in the profession . Education for a degree should be at least a five-year program. The first two years of a clinical track are taken in an ADN program. After completion, the nurse will serve in a role similar to a nurse intern under the supervision of a prepared BSN nurse. This role will last for one year in order for the ADN to gain experience at the bedside to integrate into the next stage of entering the second level. The ADN nurse will enroll in a two-year BSN program at this time. The ADN will continue to work in the role of 'intern' until completion of the BSN. At which time, the nurse will be able to assume full duties of a professional Registered Nurse .

Now my point was not to make ADN's serve under BSN's, but rather focus on the fact that an ADN with experience taking a BSN completion course has the knowledge and understanding to appreciate the liberal arts component. And yes, I do believe that an ADN that completes a RN-BSN is a better nurse.

Ok, I will stop being opinionated now.

Good post. To the highlighted part, I say AMEN and AMEN! This is why I'm not threated if BSN becomes the standard (which it won't), because there are far too many of us ADNs and there's a place for us all. (I'm not saying I agree 100% with your approach, though I think it's a good one.)

. I'm in an RN to BSN program, and other than spending a lot of money it's not really going to be of any benefit profressionally. I will get a 4% raise. I promised myself a BSN and am putting away education from the future. I did not choose to become a BSN because I think BSNs are better nurses.

However, I've been a little hesitant to say this because someone is going to interpret that I think BSN are better nurses. But for me personally, I think this program is going to make me a better nurse, particularly in the areas of pharmacology, transcultural nursing and pathophys. Is it going to give me critical thinking skills, compassion, or bedside skills? More than likely not. But I'd like to think I'm not wasting my time with useless courses, but am in some ways improving myself.

It's not for everyone and as Deb has pointed out continuing education in those areas one needs is just as educational as advancing degrees. I don't think it should be mandated everyone get one. And I agree, as has been pointed out over and over and over and over and over and over and over again....it's not the degree that makes a good nurse.

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
I am amazed at the number of educated nurses here who are clueless about politics. In case anyone was asleep during the past year......Mike Moore was proven to be a liar, John Kerry was not a war hero, and NAFTA has put NO ONE out of work. All of this socialist bleeding heart whinning makes me want to move to Canada......except their health care system is 1000% worst than our poorest system..................come to your senses folks, if the Dems get their way we would all be forced to work when and where they want us to and at the job and wage they dictate.

Pardon me, but what on does this have to do with the topic at hand?

You have a right to your opinion as a Conservative, but this hardly has a thing to do with this subject here. I could launch an equal tit-for-tat diatribe about the Right and the lies told there, but won't. It's not germane to the subject at hand here. Can we please stay with the original topic? Thanks.

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
topic is: ana rec bsn vs asn

from the few opposing point of views and the many posts here on the bb, it appears we can rarely reach consensus on any issue. many persons seem to have a poor understanding of our professional association and are not being taught the history of our profession.

1. ana's overarching goal is that

"nursing will be the acknowledged unifying force advancing quality health for all."

the work of ana: what we do: annual stakeholders report

stake04.jpg

ana focuses its work on core issues of vital concern to the nation's registered nurses - nursing shortage, appropriate staffing, health and safety, workplace rights and patient safety/advocacy in addition to its cornerstone work, ethics and standards. in this section of nursingworld, ana shares with you what it is doing to address these core issues for you and your patients.

annual stakeholders report 2004

2. history of nursing and ana

voices from the past, visions of the future: ana's centennial presentation

3. the american journal of nursing, the official journal of the american nurses association, is owned and published monthly by lippincott, williams, and wilkins, philadelphia, pa.

while ana does directly publish some columns in the journal, it does not have editorial control over the overall content of the journal. ana currently publishes the following columns in the journal: "politics of caring," "issues update," and "health & safety." http://nursingworld.org/ajn/

4. anamembership information

full membership : full voitng rights at state and national level. ana has one fee + state + district membership fees. cost varies by state, more expensve in those states that have collective barganing.

one can choose to be a member outside of the state you reside in; however this option limits your ability to influence nursing at your local level. because pa doe not have collective bargaining, dues are less. monthly direct deposit for my district/state/ana membership is less than $30.

direct individual membership direct ana individual members receive full member benefits at the national level but not benefits at the state level. thireteen states have permitted this membership option. fee: $171.00

individual affiliate membership no voting rights but receive ana info. for rns who can not afford to join ana at this time but still want to support the important work of the profession... individual affiliate members receive limited benefits and can access the members only web site of nursingworld.org. fee: $25.00

https://nursingworld.org/memapp/index.cfm

4.bsn proposal

online journals of issues in nursing (ojin) adressed the bsn entry debate first proposed in 1965 in [color=#808000]volume 7, number 2: 2002 issue:

articles on entry into practice: is it relevant today?

  1. revisiting the american nurses association's first position on education for nurses (donley. r.; flaherty, m.j.) may 31, 2002
  2. the relevance of associate degree nursing education: past, present, future (mahaffey, e.) may 31, 2002
  3. education for professional nursing practice: looking backward into the future (nelson, m.) may 31, 2002
  4. education for entry into nursing practice: revisited for the 21st century (joel, l.) may 31, 2002

hope this info will be helpful to you

wonderful information. i am just highly disappointed and feel wholy unrepresented by ana at this time.
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Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.

from ojin, august 30, 2002:

ethical grounding for entry into practice: respect, collaboration, and accountability by ruth ludwick, phd, rnc and mary cipriano silva, phd, rn, faan

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
Follow, lead, or get out of the way -- and the ANA hasn't been a leader, and it's a mistake to blame "nurses" for not seeing another version of "reality." People know you by your work -- and that explains the reason most nurses don't believe that the ANA hasn't done anything for them. They say alot, but they haven't really done anything.

With such dissention within the ranks of nurses and such a low membership is it any wonder they have no real power to actually accomplish anything?

You say "get out of the way", and who is to follow. Who is waiting in the wings to solve anything?

With no real voice to represent us is it any wonder in your career of 10 years nothing has changed much in the profression. With no real concensus...because for every proposal on how to deal with a problem in nursing there is lots of resistance. Take for example those who say to unionize. Take for example those who say raise the salary. Take for example those who say pass laws for better ratios. Take for example those who want more schools. Every step is met with a lack of cohesiveness and support. Or at the very least lack of a clear plan on how to carry it out.

Not that I have any answers either. But I hardly blame the ANA. At least they are trying, at least they take a stand on certain issues, knowing it may not please everyone.

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I agree with a previous comment that the ANA is all about promoting nursing professionalism. Obviously, this is more easily achieved at universities versus community colleges.

Having said that, I can say I nearly loathe the ANA as I find it difficult to comprehend how much they charge for the microscopic ANA Nusing Code of Ethics publication.

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You go to HCC in Columbia? That's where I graduated and w/ 90 grads a year on average, in 1991 they had 100% pass rate, 1992 - 100% pass rate and 1993 (year I grad) -98% pass rate = 1 failure in 3 yrs (wasn't me!) Best program in the Nation, IMHO - BSN or ADN.

Regarding the Gop led globalization remark that stated NAFTA is ruining us: CLINTON SIGNED NAFTA.

~faith

Timothy.

Please check Maryland Board of Nursing

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Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.

Closing thread for a time out as has strayed off the topic.

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