I had to really think about whether or not to pose this question here on allnurses. But after some thought, I would like to get some feedback on how to deal with this awkward situation. I am at a loss.
We recently hired a new employee. He seemed a bit odd at first, but I just chalked it up to my perception being off. A few days later, I was having lunch in the break room and hear him telling a co-worker EVERYTHING about his life. He left nothing out. We were all sitting at the same table, and he did not speak in a quiet tone. He was describing how he was sexually abused all his life by his father, that his wife died a year ago, leaving him with 4 kids to raise on his own-two of them with special needs; how his financial struggles are never-ending. He says that he is anxious because his mother had a heart attack last week and he had to leave work early (and did our co-worker think that management would look unfavorably upon him because he had to leave early?). Then he announced that his new girlfriend just died from a seizure. Our co-worker patiently listened and invited him to join her church to see if he would find a support group there that he liked. The rest of us ate our lunch quickly and left the break room.
Last week, more than a few co-workers approached me and told me that this new employee was making them uncomfortable, because he was elaborating on his life's challenges.
I don't know what to do. If what this guy says is true...Oh. Em. Gee. What an awful hand in life he was dealt! On the other hand, I don't think that it is appropriate for him to divulge such intimate details of his life in the workplace.
Here is my dilemma:
1. Should I talk to him directly about this, stating that I am empathetic to his multiple plights, but that he should focus on pt care while he is at work; (this seems very cold to me) or
2. Should I let our NM know what is going on? (I don't want to get him in trouble and consequently add MORE to his plate.) I am not his direct supervisor, although I am the charge nurse and a few employees have already asked that they not be assigned to him during his orientation.
Thanks for your thoughts. I really don't know what action I should take, but know that I must do SOMETHING. The staff don't know what to do either...this is a very awkward situation.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
OC-have you read Adam Corolla's book titled "In 50 Years, We'll All Be Chicks"? One of the chapters in this (hilarious) book addresses the steep incline of reported allergies. It is quite funny.
Specializes in Critical Care; Cardiac; Professional Development.
I hope that he will respond in a positive manner. I don't want him to be uncomfortable, or feel that he is being attacked. I plan on letting him know that I am impressed with his clinical skills, but that he needs to tone down the personal sharing. If I can get him to see that I am encouraging him on a professional front, perhaps he will put a lid on the personal sharing while he is at work.
You asked above what I meant by "secondary gain" - secondary gain is when something bad happens but the individual involved actually gets something positive out of it, ie: attention or the chance to talk about it, sympathy or even just astonishment. It is a psychological response that is actually really common.....getting pleasure from the response from others when something bad happens. Often people struggle to move past it, whatever it is, particularly those who see themselves as a "victim". The role of the victim (and this is just a generalization, not really about this individual guy or any one person as obviously I don't know him) in itself is pretty rewarding, as the implication of being a victim is that one is helpless to an outside force. That is the nature of being victimized. And if one is helpless, then one is powerless. And if one is powerless, then it is up to outside forces to make sure they are ok. So they strive to get outside forces to help make them ok. Because they are a victim. Victim = being taken care of, pitied, cared for = avoiding the hard work of accepting something bad happened, letting go and moving on with life. It is easier/less painful/feels more protected to be seen as a victim by others so they will feel compelled to protect and will provide sympathy/caring/concern etc etc etc. It isn't conscious, but has to be consciously recognized to move past it. It is the result of emotional trauma or emotional immaturity.
Not sure if that makes sense but it is pretty much how it was explained to me.
Specializes in Trauma Surgery, Nursing Management.
You asked above what I meant by "secondary gain" - secondary gain is when something bad happens but the individual involved actually gets something positive out of it, ie: attention or the chance to talk about it, sympathy or even just astonishment. It is a psychological response that is actually really common.....getting pleasure from the response from others when something bad happens. Often people struggle to move past it, whatever it is, particularly those who see themselves as a "victim". The role of the victim (and this is just a generalization, not really about this individual guy or any one person as obviously I don't know him) in itself is pretty rewarding, as the implication of being a victim is that one is helpless to an outside force. That is the nature of being victimized. And if one is helpless, then one is powerless. And if one is powerless, then it is up to outside forces to make sure they are ok. So they strive to get outside forces to help make them ok. Because they are a victim. Victim = being taken care of, pitied, cared for = avoiding the hard work of accepting something bad happened, letting go and moving on with life. It is easier/less painful/feels more protected to be seen as a victim by others so they will feel compelled to protect and will provide sympathy/caring/concern etc etc etc. It isn't conscious, but has to be consciously recognized to move past it. It is the result of emotional trauma or emotional immaturity.
Not sure if that makes sense but it is pretty much how it was explained to me.
Let me make sure I understand:
So if a person views themselves as a victim, they then in essence subconsciously refuse to take accountability for their own healing and subsequently rely on those around them for reassurance and protection? To re-build their self esteem? I can understand this, but only marginally so. Forgive me, I am so tired. I am trying to comprehend...
I think that I grasp the gist of what you are saying. I can see this kind of behavior from a child suffering from the fallout of trauma. I can even see it from a young adult, and have seen it. For example, I have seen a sort of 'regression' behavior from my step-son who suffered the loss of his best friend while they were deployed in Afghanistan. The boys switched duties at the last minute, and in their rush to prepare for the change, decided to simply switch gear. My stepson's friend was WEARING the gear issued to my stepson, and he had a hard time coming to terms with this. They were both 19 at the time.
I can't understand this kind of behavior from an ADULT, although I should take into consideration that this guy states that his childhood traumas were extensive, thus delaying the normal stages of maturity. Is that what you mean?
If so, (and I am going on tangent here, because I am trying to understand), then when does it become appropriate for an ADULT to resume accountability in healing from traumas suffered in childhood? Is there even such a thing?
Specializes in Critical Care; Cardiac; Professional Development.
Yes, you pretty much have it. I have seen adults do it a lot. a LOT. As far as when they move past it, it is something they have to choose to do I suspect and probably many need professional assistance to find that kind of courage. I have no idea if that is what is going on with this guy or not as I don't know him. I feel I am probably muddying your water a lot. You seem to have a good handle on plans to deal with him in my opinion and you certainly are very kind and giving this more thought than many people would bother with.
I have suffered a great amount of all kinds of abuse through out life and I can discuss it with anyone if need be but offering up sexual abuse tends to make me see my psych rotation. Please try to get him some psych help. I am not a doctor but from my psych experience I see schizophrenia type or like a borderline acting out. Psych. get him psych help.
See I disagree totally, you can't just walk up to a colleague and tell him to get psych help or medical help for that matter. I can't walk up to every person with edema and tell them to see a cardiologist, even though I want to. He is not asking you for help he is just sharing... sharing a lot of things...lol. If he said "man, I am overwhelmed I could really use someone to talk to to work this stuff out", then MAYBE I would point him to a mental health provider. Just like "Man, these ankles are so swollen, who would I go to for help", then I would feel okay to tell them to make an appointment with a cardio doc.
Telling a colleague to seek help is NOT ethical and is not my right as a nurse. He is not my patient. I think the real problem here is people are unaccepting of others, they all love to stand in judgement, get uncomfortable with differences and just can't resist to make an issue out of every thing. I can assure you there are pleanty of people this behaivor does not bother, me being one. And this crap about doctors, PLEASE, these are probably the same docs that are antisocial, have miserable lives outside of hospitals and wouldn't know how to converse casually in an appropriate manner to anyone.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
See I disagree totally, you can't just walk up to a colleague and tell him to get psych help or medical help for that matter. I can't walk up to every person with edema and tell them to see a cardiologist, even though I want to. He is not asking you for help he is just sharing... sharing a lot of things...lol. If he said "man, I am overwhelmed I could really use someone to talk to to work this stuff out", then MAYBE I would point him to a mental health provider. Just like "Man, these ankles are so swollen, who would I go to for help", then I would feel okay to tell them to make an appointment with a cardio doc.
Telling a colleague to seek help is NOT ethical and is not my right as a nurse. He is not my patient. I think the real problem here is people are unaccepting of others, they all love to stand in judgement, get uncomfortable with differences and just can't resist to make an issue out of every thing. I can assure you there are pleanty of people this behaivor does not bother, me being one. And this crap about doctors, PLEASE, these are probably the same docs that are antisocial, have miserable lives outside of hospitals and wouldn't know how to converse casually in an appropriate manner to anyone.
See, for me, this kind of behavior would elicit the same response I have when I see a spider. Except I wouldn't be stomping my co-worker as I ran screaming from the break room.
See I disagree totally, you can't just walk up to a colleague and tell him to get psych help or medical help for that matter. I can't walk up to every person with edema and tell them to see a cardiologist, even though I want to. He is not asking you for help he is just sharing... sharing a lot of things...lol. If he said "man, I am overwhelmed I could really use someone to talk to to work this stuff out", then MAYBE I would point him to a mental health provider. Just like "Man, these ankles are so swollen, who would I go to for help", then I would feel okay to tell them to make an appointment with a cardio doc.
Telling a colleague to seek help is NOT ethical and is not my right as a nurse. He is not my patient. I think the real problem here is people are unaccepting of others, they all love to stand in judgement, get uncomfortable with differences and just can't resist to make an issue out of every thing. I can assure you there are pleanty of people this behaivor does not bother, me being one. And this crap about doctors, PLEASE, these are probably the same docs that are antisocial, have miserable lives outside of hospitals and wouldn't know how to converse casually in an appropriate manner to anyone.
All of the posts about compassion and caring- and it's not ok to suggest help? OY. Letting him drone on and on at the expense of the other staff isn't that compassionate or caring either, OR to him..... and let's say this guy is getting hinky about suicide (no mention of that- but for the sake of 'argument').... how will you feel when you find out he's not at work because he's hanging in his closet?
Not ethical? Better to leave him floundering and inappropriate, when a gentle but concise conversation about what's appropriate at work, and some info about resources for help could get him what he may desperately need. At least it's an effort- AND sets the tone for work boundaries. Sounds like he's good with patients from the OP's replies. But if the whole staff on that shift is seeing something "not right", isn't it better to err on the side of caution? That's not judgement (which to me, implies some sort of 'defect' of a human in general- not the need for help) - THAT is caring in the situation given.
What docs are you working with- are they all horrible? I found a lot more wonderful ones to work with than duds. jme.
Ever heard of co-workers doing a formal intervention on someone??? It's done out of concern and caring.
First, the poster did not say anything about a plan for suicide. She said he was speaking to another coworker in the break room and she overheard the conversation. She said he is a good nurse, which tells me he is performing his duties. No I would not walk up to a fellow nurse and tell them to get psych help... it is rude, and yes!! Unethical.
Working with doctor is different than knowing them personally outside of work, I work with some of the best in the country but they are just as diverse as the rest of us.
I think everyone should reread the original post. And ask yourself have you ever (especially when you just meet someone) divulged something to a person then walked away and said "darn, I wish I hadn't opened my mouth. OMG I think someone overheard!"
so if a person views themselves as a victim, they then in essence subconsciously refuse to take accountability for their own healing and subsequently rely on those around them for reassurance and protection? to re-build their self esteem? i can understand this, but only marginally so. forgive me, i am so tired. i am trying to comprehend...
i think that i grasp the gist of what you are saying. i can see this kind of behavior from a child suffering from the fallout of trauma. i can even see it from a young adult, and have seen it. for example, i have seen a sort of 'regression' behavior from my step-son who suffered the loss of his best friend while they were deployed in afghanistan. the boys switched duties at the last minute, and in their rush to prepare for the change, decided to simply switch gear. my stepson's friend was wearing the gear issued to my stepson, and he had a hard time coming to terms with this. they were both 19 at the time.
i can't understand this kind of behavior from an adult, although i should take into consideration that this guy states that his childhood traumas were extensive, thus delaying the normal stages of maturity. is that what you mean?
if so, (and i am going on tangent here, because i am trying to understand), then when does it become appropriate for an adult to resume accountability in healing from traumas suffered in childhood? is there even such a thing?
ok... dealt with a lot of adult and adolescent survivors of a lot of different traumas....and they often behaved quite similarly. :heartbeat the goal is to turn a victim into a survivor- and that can only happen within the "victim". he/she is the only one who can make the shift in thoughts/behavior.
with a lot of trauma, the developmental stages of the person are stunted- so they are responding to their situation in childlike ways. and many get stuck in the victim role.... there's a saying in recovery/trauma resolution therapy that "there are no victims, only volunteers"- now wait :)..... this is not saying the person is in anyway responsible for what happened to them.... but they are responsible for their recovery. the ones who won't take responsibility often have victim behaviors that keep them stuck in the past. and they never get any sort of resolution to their own history (and some pasts are so bad that the damage is beyond the person's control-but those are extreme- and often end up with chronic hospitalizations/therapy....that is not recovery...that's maintenance).
the only way for someone to begin to take responsibility is to be aware- and it sounds like he's got a grasp on the trauma- but not on working through it with healthy boundaries (which aren't something that happens overnight). it's absolutely appropriate for an adult to take accountability in healing- who else is going to? his past is his to work through. nobody else can make changes in his thinking/understanding/interacting ...gotta be him :)
therapy is painful, and people often feel a lot worse before getting better. another phrase- "the only way out is through". this doesn't mean that everyone becomes totally incapacitated during therapy- but it happens .... some pasts are so bad that there is a period of decompensation- it's very real- and often (mostly) a temporary thing. to really grasp what happened- and that it's not about them (though was directed at them by the ones who were really messed up) is huge. to get out of the victim role, they have to get it through their heads that they were really irrelevant- "just" convenient. it would have been any kid. they were "just " the one that was accessible. that doesn't discount the horrendous impact it had on them at all- it puts the shame where it belongs- and that requires taking responsibility for what they can change (behavior/thoughts/reactions).
it's all very similar to alcoholics and drug addicts (not getting into the disease concept debate- genetic components are pretty standard in the recovery community).... they aren't responsible for the "addiction" disease- but they are responsible for their own recovery. nobody can get better for them - and the co-dependents who try are generally as sick as the addict.
so, yes- this guy is responsible for his own recovery, and totally accountable for his behaviors surrounding his past- including inappropriate disclosure in a "puke your history" sort of way with people he really doesn't know well at all... getting him help (or at least offering information on resources) is completely reasonable- he should not be allowed to emotionally dump on others in a work setting....it's not group therapy. :)
First, the poster did not say anything about a plan for suicide. She said he was speaking to another coworker in the break room and she overheard the conversation. She said he is a good nurse, which tells me he is performing his duties. No I would not walk up to a fellow nurse and tell them to get psych help... it is rude, and yes!! Unethical.
Working with doctor is different than knowing them personally outside of work, I work with some of the best in the country but they are just as diverse as the rest of us.
I think everyone should reread the original post. And ask yourself have you ever (especially when you just meet someone) divulged something to a person then walked away and said "darn, I wish I hadn't opened my mouth. OMG I think someone overheard!"
I said the suicide reference was for the sake of argument....
If you don't want to help be a part of the solution, fine....but if others do- that's their decision. Not yours :)
This sounded like repeated disclosures. Not the same as a one time "oops". Sitting in a break room is not an "overheard" situation.
I am not in any way saying it is not a problem, I simply am saying that there may be another issue such as social anxiety and/or a developmental disorder such as Aspergers. I specialize in such issues and they require a certain sensitivity and one must gain all the information they can before they jump to conclusions. I am simply saying take a minute and think before leaping to diagnose a person and imply they need a psychiatrist or therapy.
People may lack the social skills to even recognize very intricate social norms that you or I naturally recognize. Not a single one fits the mold, they can not respect others boundaries, lack a filter, and may not read expressions (mostly nonverbal ones). Some appear odd or quirky and divulge all their problems and thoughts. In a profession such as ours we must require ourselves to gain all the information before leaping to decisions.
I understood the arguement for suicide and as a nurse and compassionate human being I would offer help however, we also have to recognize we need to be understanding of our neurodiversity. I think the nurse that offered him a soft place to fall, sat and listened to him went above and beyond. Many would have walked a way and complained.
I am in no way saying talking about all one's struggles at work is professional but I just believe if we read some of the comments on here implying the man is "crazy" and should be immediatly reported to a manager regardless of the fact that he is a good nurse is a poor decision. There may be a point where this is needed but I just believe in gaining more information in this situation.
I agree with you that we disagree and can respect you may have your own opinion. I am just trying to put another perspective on the situation and I am big on making an informed decision in sensitive matters like these.
I found a lot more wonderful ones to work with than duds. jme.
his past is his to work through. nobody else can make changes in his thinking/understanding/interacting ...gotta be him :) 
traumaRUs, MSN, APRN
87 Articles; 21,288 Posts
Sounds like he has Aspergers - a high-functioning type of autism.
Needs EAP and/or mental health eval.