the american dream: do not lose hope

[rookie_rn]

there are hundreds, maybe even thousands, of posts here pertaining to the current immigration and economic situation of the us. in addition, the situation is also being played out in the media all over the world (i would think). with all of these information out there, i think most, if not all, foreign nurses are already aware of the sad realities of wanting to work in the us.

i got the following lines from the novel the alchemist by paulo coelho:

"... the soul of the world is nourished by people's happiness... to realize one's destiny is a person's only real obligation...

and, when you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it."

so, to all my fellow pinoy rns out there who are still dreaming of one day being able to work in the us as a registered nurse, don't lose hope. do not be discouraged. you will meet a lot of people who get pleasure from splashing water over the smallest ember of hope that you may have. but, no one could/should ever tell you that your dreams are beyond your reach.

in my opinion, we are all brothers/sisters in the world of nursing and we should be benevolent enough to welcome and help our colleagues on their way in as we, ourselves, may be on our way out.

ignis fraternum eterna est

(the flames of our brotherhood will burn forever)

[ladynurse1]

To answer your question on the US debt. I believe the majority of the bonds are being bought up by Saudi Arabia, China and Canada. The US debt issue is a big problem. To put it in a nutshell, America will have to change its lifestyle. We can't rely on cheap foreign oil. We must rebuild an energy industry to make it more earth friendly and renewable. We have to start buying more US made goods. Not just US brands, but goods actually made in the US.

Saudi Arabia, China, and Canada are not buying bonds from America. China is one of the Countries that we owe debt to. No one is bailing us out. If they were, there wouldn't be an economic crisis right now.

Now as for the reciprocity question. There is a program in the Philippines that will allow foreigners to work here on a short term basis, but not for the long term. You have to look at the reality of working in the Philippines. Given a chance would you honestly work in the Philippines on a long term basis? If you think you can't find US nurses to teach nursing students for $5,000/month. Do you honestly see a US nurse accepting a Philippine job offer for $150/month?

Whether or not Americans will go and work for $150 a month is not the issue. The issue is that the Philippine government does not allow us to come there and work. The offer should be there and Americans should make that decision. There are many Americans that do mission work and would come to your country and work for $150 a month to get by and on the side due missionary work to help your people. We Americans are good about helping others. That's one of the reasons I have such pride in my Country, but it breaks my heart to see the condition that it is in at the moment.

Changing our lifestyle is not the solution to this problem. If Americans stop spending, our economy will only suffer more. You can not rebuild an economy if the people aren't spending money. If we don't spend money, businesses close and in the end we end up regression years and years instead of moving forward.

[Hushdawg]

It all depends on the way someone wants to live and his/her expectations.

In the USA I earned more than $35,000 a year.

Here I earn roughly $500 a month.

I'm happy with my earnings because I can pay all my bills, take care of my wife and have a little left over.

Others, even Filipinos, are not happy with this because of personal desires to have more and more in order to "keep up with the Joneses" as they have adopted this unfortunate thought process from America.

I only want to keep up with myself.

So to answer your question... Yes, you will find Americans very happy to work in the Philippines for Philippine based income.

[GSG9ers]

They should be thankful that we still want to dream the "American Dream" meaning we still want to serve them as a fellow human being though we get something but they benefit more..dont you agree?

I agree with you ! ! ! Thats SOOOO true!

[Hushdawg]

Solution: hire more foreign educated nurses who are more than happy being teachers.

By hiring more educators will mean more nurses, but to see an increase in the nursing ranks will take time. A nursing student will take at least 2 to 4 years before they are able to practice. So it begs the question "What do we do with the current need of nurses now?" Do we rely on the standard method of just forcing OT on the current overworked nursing staff? This method just hastens the departure from the profession and provides less than optimal quality care. I see limited options to cover the nurse/patient ratio in the interim before more US trained nurses will eventually get hired. I see the hiring of foreign educated nurses as a way to fill the void to maintain quality medical care. If not foreigners to help out, who is left to fill the void?

Well stated and an excellent idea.

Many Pinoy nurse graduates are well-spoken and carry themselves with a high level of professionalism that could easily make them good teachers of nursing. I think the IELTS band scoring would have to be set higher than 7 though in my opinion. Teachers have much more to communicate and I think that to have the most effective teachers the band score should be raised to 9.

That being said, I'd actually like to see ALL teachers, foreign or not, have a band score of 9 in order to teach. Maybe that would have saved me a lot of frustration in my business courses in the States!

[griffon]

to answer your question on the us debt. i believe the majority of the bonds are being bought up by saudi arabia, china and canada. the us debt issue is a big problem. to put it in a nutshell, america will have to change its lifestyle. we can't rely on cheap foreign oil. we must rebuild an energy industry to make it more earth friendly and renewable. we have to start buying more us made goods. not just us brands, but goods actually made in the us.

saudi arabia, china, and canada are not buying bonds from america. china is one of the countries that we owe debt to. no one is bailing us out. if they were, there wouldn't be an economic crisis right now.

now as for the reciprocity question. there is a program in the philippines that will allow foreigners to work here on a short term basis, but not for the long term. you have to look at the reality of working in the philippines. given a chance would you honestly work in the philippines on a long term basis? if you think you can't find us nurses to teach nursing students for $5,000/month. do you honestly see a us nurse accepting a philippine job offer for $150/month?

whether or not americans will go and work for $150 a month is not the issue. the issue is that the philippine government does not allow us to come there and work. the offer should be there and americans should make that decision. there are many americans that do mission work and would come to your country and work for $150 a month to get by and on the side due missionary work to help your people. we americans are good about helping others. that's one of the reasons i have such pride in my country, but it breaks my heart to see the condition that it is in at the moment.

changing our lifestyle is not the solution to this problem. if americans stop spending, our economy will only suffer more. you can not rebuild an economy if the people aren't spending money. if we don't spend money, businesses close and in the end we end up regression years and years instead of moving forward.

first point: i'm afraid you might not have a full grasp of how bonds function. the u.s. puts out bonds for individuals/corporations/countries to buy to keep the economy churning - to say the least. if let's say china buys those bonds from the u.s. then two things happen. one, the u.s. economy churns and is kept afloat because china puts in money into the u.s. in place of the bond, and two, china earns from the interest paid by the u.s. to get those bonds back. in layman's terms, this bond now sort of becomes an iou that earns interest for anyone who buys it. they are the ones who have helped the economy stay afloat. without the foreign inflow of money, america would be a different place. the fact foreigners have slowed down in funding our debt and the extending credit crisis is a big theme to the solvency of the usa.

second point: i applaud anyone who does missionary work. i've had my share of humanitarian missions during my time here in the philippines and it wasn't easy. you went into the matter of missionary work, which of course is done by most because they are called to do so, their personal calling. so it goes without saying that the amount of money they can make is not the issue. philippine republic act 9173 section 21 (b) provides for a venue in which foreigners are allowed to practice their nursing profession as:

"licensed nurses from foreign countries/states on medical mission whose services shall be free in a particular hospital, center or clinic"

so being missionaries, they are free to work in the philippines as they please.

if you are suggesting the symbolic gesture of granting a us nurse an rn status in the philippines by passing the philippine nle then i agree with you. a tit-for-tat gesture as you may. but it rings hollow. much like how congress finally voted for offshore drilling for oil, but drilling has to be beyond 100 miles offshore. unfortunately the oil is less than 50 miles, which makes it economically unwise. it seems futile to me in both respects.

if a us rn would work in the philippines for 40 hrs a week for a mere $40. that would leave little time to do the humanitarian missions you described. what you made in 40hrs here you could have made in 1 hour in the us. this is also beside the point, since there are very limited jobs for an rn in the philippines.

third and last point: i don't recall saying, much less insinuating, for americans to stop spending. it goes against the very principles of economic logic. having graduated with an economics degree from an american university in the united states as an american citizen, it would be a great injustice for me to suggest so. please read my post again. i feel this is not the right thread to go in depth about the perils that brought america, economically, to where it is today and to discuss how to bring it back to where it used to be. we would stray too far off topic. i am, delightedly, open to economic discussions in another thread about the matter if need be.

it all depends on the way someone wants to live and his/her expectations.

in the usa i earned more than $35,000 a year.

here i earn roughly $500 a month.

i'm happy with my earnings because i can pay all my bills, take care of my wife and have a little left over.

hushdawg says he can live happily at $500 which is roughly p25,000 a month. my research shows (from within this forum, and personal interviews of hospital nurses throughout a 3 year span) an average of p7000 monthly earnings for a registered nurse in manila. the p25,000 lies at the managerial level/masteral/specialist nursing positions.

my point is that under r.a. 9173, there is a provision for specialist foreign nurses to work here as well. so if you can land a job at that level of nursing, the laws will allow you to work in the philippines. so the question wasn't at the $500, but at the $150 level. i have no doubt there are thousands of nurses who would jump at the chance to make p25,000/month. but if there are only a few jobs at the p7,000. there are far less positions opened at the p25,000/month level.

so filipino rns don't lose hope. as long as there is a demand for nurses in america you have a chance to make it there. just keep your skill levels up-to-date. if that means leaving for other countries while your petition is working its way through the us visa program then so be it. your petition number will come up.

america's own employment numbers sees the profession growing over the next 20 years. some say your employer may back out. some say it's cheaper to hire us rn's. that's something you have no control over.

but there are things on your side. america has too few nurse educators. the demand is to stay in the hospitals then make only 1/3 of their salary at the university level. coupled with the retirement factor of these highly valued nurses, all this means is fewer educators mean fewer nurses will be graduating in the us.

hospitals/ltc/dialysis centers that petition you are legally locking you into a contract for 2-3 years at a set rate. this is an edge for you. since us rn's are allowed to leave anytime they want, which makes keeping a stable workforce harder. if companies know they can lock the foreigner in for a long term contract this will diminish the upfront costs of getting you to the us and educating you to their standards.

i only see the us educated population of nurses diminishing in the future. the only way i see it getting better is to pour 100's of millions of dollars into more education facilities and matching the hospital pay rates thereby making it more attractive to high level nurses to teach. but as we all know the us is in a recession and the cheaper way out is to hire foreigners.

with president obama coming into power he is more lenient and vocal when it comes to foreigners. he clearly states that he will open the doors to skilled workers.

where we can bring in more foreign-born workers with the skills our economy needs, we should"

-- barack obama, statement on u.s. senate floor, may 23, 2007

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

"But there are things on your side. America has too few nurse educators. The demand is to stay in the hospitals then make only 1/3 of their salary at the university level. Coupled with the retirement factor of these highly valued nurses, all this means is fewer educators mean fewer nurses will be graduating in the US. "

I there are many US RN with MSNs working hospitals due to the fact Hospitals pay more, I teach part time in a College. Teaching at a College or University will allow aging RN-MSN several options a hospital does not offer. One is a retirement package hospitals don't offer. Second is a flexible schedule with lots of time off. Third physically less demanding position. As the economy goes bad more and more nurses like myself with transition into these positions. Also more Bridging MSN programs are being made available to seasoned US RNs, it would not take long for them to transition to becoming an educator.

"-- Jobs: Obama is calling for a temporary $3,000 tax credit for each net new full-time job companies create in the U.S" This is for US citizens, not immigrants. Hospitals will get a $3K bonus for each new nursing position and US trained nurses do not need the intensive orientation that could run up the $15K so the incentive is $18K for a US nurse.

And patient satisfaction is increased due to the fact there is not a communication barrier. Now all hospitals have to survey patients to ensure they are happy with the nursing care.

"Obama will ensure funding is available for the Trade Adjustment Assistance program, and expand it so it covers service workers as well as manufacturing workers, in order to provide retraining, income support, health insurance tax credits, and other benefits to those who lose their jobs because of trade."

Source: Campaign website, ObamaForIllinois.com Jun 25, 2004

Great news for people like me, more more for teaching! My state tally how many qualified nursing students they turn away, this pool will fill the gap, no need for importing Nurses.

I only see the US educated population of nurses diminishing in the future. The only way I see it getting better is to pour 100's of millions of dollars into more education facilities and matching the hospital pay rates thereby making it more attractive to high level nurses to teach. But as we all know the US is in a recession and the cheaper way out is to hire foreigners.

Not true, the prevailing wage has be paid

http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/wages.cfm

Also the economy need financial incentives, what a great gift to our US children a proper education and employment, after the bank bail out taxpayers like myself would welcome

tax money being spent on us.

[suzanne4, RN]

And to add to the above poster. As American nurses get ready to retire or work shorter hours, you are actually going to see more and more go into teaching. So that is actually going to increase the number of American students that will be enrolled in school.

You forgot to look at it that way.

Other issue is that the number of visas available per year has not changed in years and we do not expect it to. There is still a limit as to the number of green cards per year.

And when you have the number of nurses that are unemployed in your country and less than 10,000 visas per year for those from your country, chances of getting to the US are actually going to be getting smaller rather than easier if you do the math.

It is going to take more than an American dream to get to the US, rather more like actual work experience that is paid as an RN and that is current. Expect the US to start requiring experience like the other countries and then what are you going to do? And we are expecting to see it happen at any time, the writing is on the wall for it.

Then what are you going to do? Posting then that it is not fair is not going to hold any water. As well as the requirement for the local license for all states here. We are seeing more and more require it and not accept any letters as to why one is not going to write it. Unless an actual exemption from the PRC and in writing from them, and you are going to need to write it.

[5cats]

I would think it's high time that people are starting to look for different jobs. Elsewhere in the world when there are no jobs available you don't go for it, you look for alternatives.

The american dream is great when it's realistic, and actually skilled workers are not only nurses btw.

But as I said before in another thread, choosing a job as a ticket to another country is for me absolutly wrong, you should choose a job that you like and of course pay your bills eventually. If a specific job is not available look for alternatives, but don't blame other countries that they don't let you immigrate, it's your choice, not others.

5cats

[NurseCubanitaRN2b, BSN, RN]

Unfortunately teachers don't make as much money as they're worth. If you find a teacher who is willing to teach in their field rather than work in their specialized field, most of the time they do it out of passion. They're sure not doing it for the money. Now there are those that do it solely for the hours and flexibility, but those are few and far between.

Now I see that people on this board are living the "American Dream", now tell me, what is the "American Dream"? What you view as the "American Dream" can be different from someone else. Are you materialistic and want to drive a mercedes, sport around a coach purse, wear Dolce & Gabbana (can't even spell it) clothing & shoes? Is that what you mean by the "American Dream"? Now there are those that just desire to feed their family and live a humble life, and they will take on any job and will do anythig to feed their family because back home so they leave. Most of the people that come here who are unskilled workers can't afford to live in their home country. They would risk everything in order to put food on the table for their kids, they would rather have 16 people living in a 2 bedroom house (here) just so that their kids don't sleep on dirt floors with no blankets. Their "American Dream" is different than others. So what do you mean by the "American Dream"?

[Nurse!Nurse!Hello?]

america's own employment numbers sees the profession growing over the next 20 years. some say your employer may back out. some say it's cheaper to hire us rn's. that's something you have no control over.

i only see the us educated population of nurses diminishing in the future. the only way i see it getting better is to pour 100's of millions of dollars into more education facilities and matching the hospital pay rates thereby making it more attractive to high level nurses to teach. but as we all know the us is in a recession and the cheaper way out is to hire foreigners.

so, are you saying it is cheaper to hire us rn's or foreigners? can't be both!

you certainly paint a dismal and depressing picture of the future of nursing for us citizens! most us nurses don't see hiring foreigners as the answer because it is short-sighted and does nothing to address the core issues.

because the us is in a recession, more us nurses will be picking up extra hours, and nurses who are retired or semi-retired will rejoin the workforce. therefore, the need for foreign workers will go down, not up.

unfortunately, you have fallen into the same trap as many other posters in this particular forum: twisting the facts and misinterpreting the data to support your own fantasy that the us will be hiring an endless supply of foreign nurses. you can dream and hope and pray all you want, but the reality is that your country has tricked you into believing that you will all find great-paying jobs in the us. a few of you will, but most of you will not.

the us is not sitting idly by while the so-called "nursing shortage" worsens. the government is working to address the issue. with rising unemployment in the us, the priority is putting americans back to work. i'm sure a lot of them see nursing as a stable occupation, and will pursue an education in that area. why in god's name would the us want to increase the number of foreign imports when americans are out of work??? it doesn't make sense. those of you who think otherwise need a reality check!!

[Nurse!Nurse!Hello?]

And with the US unemployment rate rising, would it be OK for the US to send some workers to the Philippines, to take over some of your jobs? After all, the US does produce "the best nurses in the world."

We are also the "hardest workers" in the world, as I'm sure you already know.

So, it's not OK? Why not? Why doesn't the Philippine government alllow foreign-trained non-citizens to work as nurses in your country? For those of you who think that retrogression is unfair--and those of you who complain about needing to pass the NLE, and meet other requirements that different states have for obtaining a a US license--you need to take a step back and look at the whole picture. Not just the tiny portion of the picture that affects you, personally.

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

Not only are Americans not allowed to work as nurses, they are not allowed to wown property with the exceptions of condos with restrictions. So it would be a mute point to ask if Americans would be allowed to wire 30% of their salary home.

I think when asking about one's homeland (USA for me) in my opinion posters need to be sensitive about questions about the USA especially when they are critical about my homeland.

I really would like to know the answer to Latina's question, What is your American Dream?

For many immigrants , including my family, it was 3 square meals and day and a roof over their head. It is the accessibility to education and US citizenship. It is the ability to speak freely and not get killed. It is the right to practice one's religion free of fear.

Fortunately, it seems that most Philippine nurses are not hungry and have a roof over their head as well as education, it can't be that. Religion is allowed to be practiced freely and well as the right to free speech. So what is your American Dream?