the american dream: do not lose hope

[rookie_rn]

there are hundreds, maybe even thousands, of posts here pertaining to the current immigration and economic situation of the us. in addition, the situation is also being played out in the media all over the world (i would think). with all of these information out there, i think most, if not all, foreign nurses are already aware of the sad realities of wanting to work in the us.

i got the following lines from the novel the alchemist by paulo coelho:

"... the soul of the world is nourished by people's happiness... to realize one's destiny is a person's only real obligation...

and, when you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it."

so, to all my fellow pinoy rns out there who are still dreaming of one day being able to work in the us as a registered nurse, don't lose hope. do not be discouraged. you will meet a lot of people who get pleasure from splashing water over the smallest ember of hope that you may have. but, no one could/should ever tell you that your dreams are beyond your reach.

in my opinion, we are all brothers/sisters in the world of nursing and we should be benevolent enough to welcome and help our colleagues on their way in as we, ourselves, may be on our way out.

ignis fraternum eterna est

(the flames of our brotherhood will burn forever)

[griffon]

your country has tricked you into believing...

Please keep the racial overtones to a minimum. I, just like you, can read and write and can come to my own conclusions.

Where did I say or even imply "US will be hiring an endless supply of foreign nurses"?

The US is not sitting idly by while the so-called "nursing shortage" worsens. The government is working to address the issue.

How? The US has known about the nursing shortage for years. Was there not a line when you applied for nursing school? Has that line suddenly disappeared to get into nursing school?

Members of this board state we are in a recession, hence the need to make more money, work more overtime. Despite that they argue nurses will take a 2/3 pay cut from bedside nursing to teach. For the nurses who don't have a masters/doctorate degree they will somehow find the strength to go back to school and then teach in their retirement years. They realize they will be making less money even before they spend the next few years getting their advanced degree. The question remains will there be enough of these altruistic individuals?

When you factor the influx of new teachers will be producing more nurses then why is there NOT a labor report stating there will be a SURPLUS of nurses sometime in the future?

You have nursing schools at full capacity and turning away students, US schools will need to expand, costing millions nationwide on a yearly basis. Also the lag time of 3 to 4 years before a student can become a nurse. Who will fill the nursing gap until then? Do you think America will spend the millions to do this in their current economic crisis? Or do you think they will simply add more visas? Which do you think is more feasible?

Neither you nor I know the definitive answer to that question. But it gives us something to ponder about.

Why in God's name would the US want to increase the number of foreign imports when Americans are out of work??? It doesn't make sense. Those of you who think otherwise need a reality check!!

Don't confuse TOTAL unemployment with the nursing unemployment. Foreign nurses are not taking away jobs, but are filling the vacancies. The family members coming over with the nurse are not allowed to work. So they aren't taking away the American jobs either.

Even when you employ every able bodied nurse and hire every nursing graduate the labor stats still show America will need up to an ADDITIONAL 1 MILLION NEW nurses by 2020. How's that for a reality check!!

[suzanne4, RN]

This is not the place to be attacking others first of all.

But one major thing that you are forgetting to look at is the fact the US can easily train that many nurses; that is not going to be an issue. And add into the equation that if the nurse is American and trains in the US, then they will be able to go for licensure right away and begin work and not have to wait the additional time to get approval for the NCLEX exam and then the immigration process.

And this is exactly what is being done in the US right now, there are programs in place for retraining or initial training that state governments are actually paying for or are in the process of doing. The goal is first to have Americans working.

Next, you still forget to look at the number of green cards that are available per year, and that has never gone over 10,000 for any one country. Actually it is just under 10,000 for the maximum and that includes children and spouses, so not all go to nurses either. And other professions are included in with this number as well.

It is still not the requirement of the US to have to take who ever has the dream to work here, and that is where many are missing the point. If one does not have work experience then it is going to be increasingly hard for them to ever get to the US, or to any other country. Same as for passing the NLE. There are those that still think that they will be able to get to the US in five years or so and have never written that exam, or they do not care to. We are expecting to see the requirements in the US to become much tighter. And I have been write on most of my other predictions as well concerning working in the US. Things are going to be getting much tighter and then when you throw in the number of graduates in your country, the chances of getting to the US are actually becoming much slimmer on a daily basis, no matter what anyone promises to you.

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

http://stats.bls.gov/OCO/OCOS083.HTM#outlook

The so called US nursing shortage- is down from 1 million to half a million amazing.

And the international nurses didn't fix this problem. With technology changing, I wonder how many RNs will be needed- in my life time hospital stays have changed for an average of 7-10 days to an average stay of 1-2 days. Hospital census is down. This a trend I for see going down. Even as Americans age I see insurance companies and the public looking for programs to keep sick people in the community. Medicare is talking about disease management programs.

There is a tremendous need for community health nurses, this is not an area of nursing where a new or foreign nurse can practice. You must be familiar with the community a

and have nursing experience. For most of these positions you need a car that is dependable with a

good driving record.

As far as older nurses going back to school, I just graduated with my MSN in 2006. I was afraid I would be one of the older nurses since I was 50 when I finished yet in most of my classes I was one of the youngest. The reason being nurses my age or older do not have the family financial concerns we had when our kids were is school.

So to answer you question, since I was altruistic when I was younger by working hours and jobs that met my family's need, I have no issue in spending money on going back to school. I do realize I was going to take a pay cut to teach, but I love doing it. Based on seeing numerous students my age or older I think we all share similar goals.

As far as nursing unemployment, nurses are getting laid off every day. Hospitals have hiring freezes, so there are not a whole lot of nursing positions available for experienced nurses and virtually nothing for new graduates. I am basing this on my personal observations, what are you basing your observation that nursing positions are plentiful?

[ladynurse1]

Members of this board state we are in a recession, hence the need to make more money, work more overtime. Despite that they argue nurses will take a 2/3 pay cut from bedside nursing to teach. For the nurses who don't have a masters/doctorate degree they will somehow find the strength to go back to school and then teach in their retirement years. They realize they will be making less money even before they spend the next few years getting their advanced degree. The question remains will there be enough of these altruistic individuals?

It appears from this article that nurse educator's salaries are expected to increase. Perhaps there will be enough altruistic individuals willing to go back to become nurse educators after all.

http://www.nursingprograms.com/creating-the-next-generation-of-nurses-the-nursing-educator

[NurseCubanitaRN2b, BSN, RN]

And with the US unemployment rate rising, would it be OK for the US to send some workers to the Philippines, to take over some of your jobs? After all, the US does produce "the best nurses in the world."

We are also the "hardest workers" in the world, as I'm sure you already know.

So, it's not OK? Why not? Why doesn't the Philippine government alllow foreign-trained non-citizens to work as nurses in your country? For those of you who think that retrogression is unfair--and those of you who complain about needing to pass the NLE, and meet other requirements that different states have for obtaining a a US license--you need to take a step back and look at the whole picture. Not just the tiny portion of the picture that affects you, personally.

You've brought up some very good points. What I also wanted to add, is that isn't having the opportunity to take the NCLEX vs retaking your whole nursing education all over again part of the American Dream? You're getting the opportunity to take an exam that will allow you to practice nursing in the US once you have a valid working visa. I don't see how anyone can think that retrogression is unfair? Why is this country going to let everyone enter here and try to find work, when there are people who are from here who can't find work. I personally am glad that retrogression is in effect. We can't let immigration totally get out of control.

Again, will someone please tell me what's the American Dream?

[Hushdawg]

Fortunately, it seems that most Philippine nurses are not hungry and have a roof over their head as well as education, it can't be that. Religion is allowed to be practiced freely and well as the right to free speech. So what is your American Dream?

Let me illustrate a clear point here about the drive that I see in many Pinoy nurses.

They are only having a roof over their heads and able to have a good education because the father, mother, brothers, uncles, aunts, etc... have worked hard and long all day and all night to be able to afford to put ONE person in the family though college. They have seen the family suffer and sacrifice on their own behalf. Pinoys are modest and humble people, and for them to have such sacrifice done on their behalf is embarassing for some to discuss or even recognize. Many that I meet cry when they recount it because it is so emotional.

So yes, the nurse is able to get the education and have a roof over his/her head but it is out of a sacrifice to the level that many Americans will never be able to comprehend. There is a drive and desire for these nurses to help the family.

Some of the extended family may only be living in what we call "shanties" in the USA. Small houses made of scrap material that one can find because these individuals cannot afford proper housing.

I have seen nursing students come out of what is known here as "squatter houses" to go to school each day. Sometimes commuting 2 hours each way because the whole family has sacrificed so much to send her to school.

Also, let's shatter the "freedom of speech" and "freedom of religion" bubble you have about the Philippines right now.

There is a very limited freedom of speech. If you investigate, you will find that more journalists are killed in the Philippines than any other country. If a member of the press speaks out too harshly against the Administration then he is silenced.

People hate the current president and are open about it online and in private conversations, but some are afraid to say things in public.

I have met many, many older Filipinos who yearn for the Marcos days.

There is no freedom of religion, there is the illusion of freedom. Muslims are heavily discriminated against, they are barred from holding jobs in many industries or at least openly Muslim people are barred from jobs. Women who wear hijab are forced to either remove it and violate their religious principles or go jobless. Men are forced to shave beards.

If you are not Catholic, there is a slight stigma; if you are not Christian or Muslim there is a heavy stigma.

The official policy of the goverment may say that there is a freedom of religion; but when businesses have bigoted policies there is nowhere to turn for legal support.

American companies here in the Philippines are no better. I have often said that the best way the USA could repair the collapsing foreign policy would be to enforce the application of US business law to American businesses operating overseas insomuch that civil rights and personal freedoms are no longer violated. As the harbingers of capitalism, the business that America does overseas is the greatest representation of what America is. If I were not an American and my only knowledge of the USA was based on what I see American businesses doing abroad... well; let's just say there is a lot to be desired. Maybe Obama can work on that.

So for all the things I love about the Philippines, I can definitely understand the desire to go abroad, help the family and enjoy the feeling of true freedoms.

I don't think that it is America's responsibility to open our borders to EVERYONE; but certainly I believe that the inscription on the Statue of Liberty should still remain true.

We should be the refuge, the golden door of promise for those who seek freedom, justice and equality.

If we cannot be that any more, then we are no longer America.

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

Are you implying American Nurses don't work hard to go to school? I can tell you some of my students live in conditions like your Philippine extended family live in and they go to school and work full time in low paying jobs. And the students pass the NCLEX first time with no review course and don't take time off to study ( they can't afford it!).

Also are you saying that if you could not earn extra peso coming to the USA you would come here for religious and freedom of the press? That is what my father's family they let a very nice home for the religious freedom. I would say that is the spirit of the American immigrant work hard give your all to America. Embrace the American culture and get involved. I would say I would be proud to have you come as a future American Citizen.

[Hushdawg]

Are you implying American Nurses don't work hard to go to school? I can tell you some of my students live in conditions like your Philippine extended family live in and they go to school and work full time in low paying jobs. And the students pass the NCLEX first time with no review course and don't take time off to study ( they can't afford it!).

I'm not saying that Americans don't work hard and that Americans don't struggle. But believe me, There are many subtle opportunities in America that simply do not exist here.

I worked full time and went to school full time in the USA. That scenario isn't even an option for most Pinoys as the business structure almost completely prohibits it.

Additionally, there is no comparison in the USA to what the average Filipino must deal with. None whatsoever. I lived through some hard times in the USA myself, there were times when I nearly lost my home and had to grab thrown out pizzas from local Pizza Hut in order to survive. But I still had clean running water and a stable roof over my head. My own sister was homeless for months before my family could find her and bring her home; she was able to live in shelters and get hot meals every day and baths. There were people who were homeless in the shelters and had jobs and even cars!

I worked in the non-profit sector in the USA before moving to the Philippines. I have seen the deepest levels of poverty in the USA and I have heard the most desperate stories.

Still I am firm on my statement that there are ALWAYS more opportunities and more access to things in the States.

There is no comparison, so don't even try.

Anyone in poverty in the states has a dozen or more avenues for assistance and programs to help improve the situation.

For Pinoys in similar or worse situations there is NOTHING.

The government here does very little to help the people.

I'm not a Filipino, just to clarify any confusion left. I am an American who has lived here in the Philippines for almost two years. I do not live in the subdivisions and condos that most foreigners do because I can't stand that atmosphere. I live in a very average Pinoy neighborhood away from the metro areas and am the only foreigner for a long stretch.

Also are you saying that if you could not earn extra peso coming to the USA you would come here for religious and freedom of the press? That is what my father's family they let a very nice home for the religious freedom. I would say that is the spirit of the American immigrant work hard give your all to America. Embrace the American culture and get involved. I would say I would be proud to have you come as a future American Citizen.

This is the right attitude to have.

Also, understand that "low income" in the USA is still able to afford a better living situation than most of the people I witness here in the Philippines.

Regardless of what you may have seen on TV or online, the Philippines is not an industrialized nation; it is very much a nation in two worlds with all the problems of a developing nation with regards to economy, social order and government corruption of the highest order and the problems of an industrialized nation with rising costs, bureaucracy and miles upon miles of paperwork every time you move.

That term "embrace American Culture" is a little weird considering that "American Culture" is a combination of all different microcosms of culture which exist within the greater society.

The very aspect of Embracing American Culture is celebrating cultural diversity within the great big stew pot that is America.

[Nurse!Nurse!Hello?]

[Originally Posted by Nurse!Nurse!Hello?

your country has tricked you into believing...

Please keep the racial overtones to a minimum. I, just like you, can read and write and can come to my own conclusions.

****************************

Griffon, I am not clear why you are (mis)interpreting my comment as having "racial overtones."

I am merely expressing my opinion that the government of the Philippines is not being honest about the likelihood of finding employment abroad. Look at the thousands and thousands of unemployed nurses in the Philippines, and how the number increases every year.

Look at the number of newbie nurse posters--all excited to go to the US-- who are surprised when Suzanne tells them that they will have to wait a long, long time before they can go to the US (if they will ever even be able to at all.) These nurses are not illiterate--they, too, can read and write and come to their own conclusions. But somehow they are missing a large chunk of information about their prospects for working abroad, and the responsibility for this lies squarely on the shoulders of the Philippine government!

Look at the proliferation of shoddy nursing schools that have opened in the last five years. Pumping out nurses like cars on an assembly line. And the government does nothing to monitor the quality (or lack thereof) of the education these young people are spending all their money on! Some of these schools have such a low percentage of graduates who can pass the NLE it's a disgrace. The reality is that for many of these nurses, they will never have the opportunity to work in the US.

As I have written before, if you have "a love of nursing," by all means become a nurse! If you are only looking for a quick way out of the Philippines, you will be disappointed.

[NurseCubanitaRN2b, BSN, RN]

Let me illustrate a clear point here about the drive that I see in many Pinoy nurses.

They are only having a roof over their heads and able to have a good education because the father, mother, brothers, uncles, aunts, etc... have worked hard and long all day and all night to be able to afford to put ONE person in the family though college. They have seen the family suffer and sacrifice on their own behalf. Pinoys are modest and humble people, and for them to have such sacrifice done on their behalf is embarassing for some to discuss or even recognize. Many that I meet cry when they recount it because it is so emotional.

So yes, the nurse is able to get the education and have a roof over his/her head but it is out of a sacrifice to the level that many Americans will never be able to comprehend. There is a drive and desire for these nurses to help the family.

Some of the extended family may only be living in what we call "shanties" in the USA. Small houses made of scrap material that one can find because these individuals cannot afford proper housing.

I have seen nursing students come out of what is known here as "squatter houses" to go to school each day. Sometimes commuting 2 hours each way because the whole family has sacrificed so much to send her to school.

Also, let's shatter the "freedom of speech" and "freedom of religion" bubble you have about the Philippines right now.

There is a very limited freedom of speech. If you investigate, you will find that more journalists are killed in the Philippines than any other country. If a member of the press speaks out too harshly against the Administration then he is silenced.

People hate the current president and are open about it online and in private conversations, but some are afraid to say things in public.

I have met many, many older Filipinos who yearn for the Marcos days.

There is no freedom of religion, there is the illusion of freedom. Muslims are heavily discriminated against, they are barred from holding jobs in many industries or at least openly Muslim people are barred from jobs. Women who wear hijab are forced to either remove it and violate their religious principles or go jobless. Men are forced to shave beards.

If you are not Catholic, there is a slight stigma; if you are not Christian or Muslim there is a heavy stigma.

The official policy of the goverment may say that there is a freedom of religion; but when businesses have bigoted policies there is nowhere to turn for legal support.

American companies here in the Philippines are no better. I have often said that the best way the USA could repair the collapsing foreign policy would be to enforce the application of US business law to American businesses operating overseas insomuch that civil rights and personal freedoms are no longer violated. As the harbingers of capitalism, the business that America does overseas is the greatest representation of what America is. If I were not an American and my only knowledge of the USA was based on what I see American businesses doing abroad... well; let's just say there is a lot to be desired. Maybe Obama can work on that.

So for all the things I love about the Philippines, I can definitely understand the desire to go abroad, help the family and enjoy the feeling of true freedoms.

I don't think that it is America's responsibility to open our borders to EVERYONE; but certainly I believe that the inscription on the Statue of Liberty should still remain true.

We should be the refuge, the golden door of promise for those who seek freedom, justice and equality.

If we cannot be that any more, then we are no longer America.

What you've said is very heartwarming about sacrafices. Guess what, Filipinos aren't the only ones who sacrafice. There are lots of ethnic groups out there who have sacraficed in order to make it better for their loved ones.

Lets do a reality check here, there isn't freedom of speech in the Philippines right as you state. Guess what, there isn't freedom of speech in China, there isn't freedom of speech in North Korea, and there isn't freedom of speech in Cuba. I can tell you that China and North Korea are very brutal to their citizens, more so than in the Philippines, and also they're under very brutal dictatorships. When the Filipinos get here, is the first thing that they're going to do is practice freedom of speech? No way, they're not here for freedom of speech, and they're not here for freedom of religion. Neither are my people, they're not here for either of those reasons. Face it, everyone wants to come here because they want to make more money. All people see (this goes for most groups, not just Filipinos) are $$$$$ signs, and what do they ask when they come here? How much money am I going to make? Granted they're some that don't care and don't ask, but most do. Regarding freedom of religion, hey there is a problem with freedom of religion right here in our own backyard. People look down upon Muslims because of what happened on 9-11-2001. Just because someone is Muslim, they automatically assume that they're terrorists because of their religion. Muslims can't walk down the street here in the US with out people looking at them funny. Look at Obama, people were actually scared because they thought he was Muslim LOL, pretty stupid if you ask me. If you're not a Christian in this country then you're beneath, and I see it all the time. So you may have freedom of religion in this country, but it does come with some unfortunate consequences.

If you're looking for freedom of speech, and religion, hey there are other places where you can practice that like in Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and Brazil for example. They don't have retrogression in effect. People can go seek their dreams elsewhere until retrogression is lifted, who knows they might like it there and stay.

Again, what is the American Dream?

[Hushdawg]

But somehow they are missing a large chunk of information about their prospects for working abroad, and the responsibility for this lies squarely on the shoulders of the Philippine government!

Not entirely; the schools are more to blame for that than anyone else. The Philippine government officially has a lot of policies about recruiting and such. As an American I cannot encourage someone to apply to licensure for any specific state nor can I reccomend any hospitals or networks. Under Philippine law this is classified as recruiting and I would have to hold a special license to do this.

The Philippine Government is actually very strict in this regard.

It is the schools and review programs that generate unrealistic expectations among the nurses and students. One that I poke holes in and give reality checks to whenever I'm invited to give a seminar.

Look at the proliferation of shoddy nursing schools that have opened in the last five years. Pumping out nurses like cars on an assembly line. And the government does nothing to monitor the quality (or lack thereof) of the education these young people are spending all their money on! Some of these schools have such a low percentage of graduates who can pass the NLE it's a disgrace. The reality is that for many of these nurses, they will never have the opportunity to work in the US.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. There are some schools and review centers that I would love to see shut down.. some of whom are claiming non-existent ties to US boards of nursing or hospitals or major universities.

What is so bizzare is that they spin stories to the nurses about the accreditation they have in the USA yet the certifications they provide are not even valid here in the Philippines!

There are even a few schools using "USA" in the promo fliers and such and students graduating from those schools have a hard time passing the credential evaluation sections of licensure applications.

As I have written before, if you have "a love of nursing," by all means become a nurse! If you are only looking for a quick way out of the Philippines, you will be disappointed.

This is a major statement and one that I strongly promote.

Nursing is a difficult profession which takes a lot of dedication, energy and the ol' set of "blood, sweat and tears" to make a career out of. The payoff in financial and non-monitary reward alike is great in the end but there is no easy ticket.

My wife, like many other Filipinas, was pressured into nursing by family who wanted her to go overseas and send money back home.

She went through the school, passed her local boards with flying colors and then promptly took a job doing medical transcription and refused to go any farther. Her heart is not in nursing... she would not be pressured into anything further.

Luckily for her it was only her father pushing her into this, her mother supported her decision to live her own life and stop the persuit of nursing.

[awfullysweetgal]

very well said hushdawg :) I am deeply touched when I read your posts, you definitely understand the predicament of pinoy nurses-thank you :). You have seen one of the worst political system that we have. Until now, me and my family have been struggling just to make ends meet. Unfortunately as a government nurse employee for 3 years, my salary of $200 per month is not enough to pay for the monthly bills, to feed my family,to help send my sisters to school,and to pay the medical bills of my parents. I even don't have the luxury to buy new clothes for myself as I give my last centavo for our basic needs (I have 2 pairs of shoes for 3 years= one rubber shoes and one duty shoes that's it). I understand that U.S. is experiencing financial crisis, but for me, I've been experiencing this kind of adversity since birth as well for the other pinoys. Things are harder and harsher here more than ever (what else is new?). Here in our country, we don't have those directives that the U.S have, such as the allocations and support from the gov't. Try to stay here for yourself and you will see that the gov't is so corrupt that even health benefits are deprived for the not so priviledged. Most of those people die for not being able to pay for their medical bills (or buy their medicines), nor even afford to have food to eat. Despite of the reality that the global crisis we are facing, I don't let the negative things affect me. I will continue to dream- even though there are nurses here whose goal is to put off the hopes and dreams of pinoy nurses.