Alverno DEMSN 2021

Katoo · Aug 6, 2021

@londonflo, thanks for the clarification! At least you took your time to explain and brrak it down! It seems like no one wants to answer questions in this school. We either get some bad attitudes as a response or we get ignored. My assessment grades are in the 80s (without homework or quizes) so far. I was wondering if I don't do well in the last one, if they will fail me for that 1 assessment ! While my quizes and 3 assessment grade average are above 80%.

@damiorifice just don't let @greenbluegray see your comment, your highness. We all need knowledgeable people to take care of us...That's why we're paying an institution to teach us, and guide us when it's needed...To get an adequate learning experience there should be a good program plan and a good support from the school....They are unorganized, and keep changing plans on students at the last minute! What they say by mouth is different than what you read on your email (if you even receive one). Jumping and changing a learning system abruptly without any explanation (like we didn't exist or matter) and expect a positive outcome, won't work. You can't expect your future nurse to know how to adminster your heparin drip properly if the institution where the nurse is learning is upside down/unorganized ! At the same time, having 80% in assessments doesn't mean that a student will be a great nurse or, a great doctor ! Some of them are ! But, a lot of A's students, now doctors and nurses are killing people out there! They are cold harded ! No compassion, no empathy! I don't define people's competence by their grades only! Some people are just not good test takers while they know what they're doing ! While some are good at taking tests and become killers, rather than healers! I don't use grades to define someone's performance. Each person has a learning style and a test taking style. Just saying !

I don't mind the fact that the administration is changing the learning & teaching format, but, they do it in a dictatorship way. Like we're the cause of the way the previous administration lead the school. They can't expect a positive feedback like that, by being rude to us and imposing what they want abruptly like that.

greenbluegray · Aug 6, 2021

Yes, in order to be a good nurse you do need to learn the material, but fast tracked programs like this make it tough. Failing one class is not the end of the world- it happens. You can fail a class and still become a great nurse.

So while knowledge and critical thinking are undoubtedly important, so is humility. No one wants to work with a know-it-all contrarian, and snide remarks certainly do not foster the collaborative and supportive environment that is so crucial to successful nursing.

Katoo · Aug 6, 2021

@greenbluegray, you're right.

londonflo · Aug 6, 2021

10 hours ago, Katoo said:

I don't define people's competence by their grades only! Some people are just not good test takers while they know what they're doing !

Yes, this is why a clinical practicum is so important in a practice discipline such as nursing. Applying your knowledge in a practice setting gives you confidence and provides the opportunities to think critically. I am sure it is a major disappointment to be in an educational program such as nursing when you are unable to have clinicals due to Covid. A major disappointment and indeed the lack of clinicals could impact an ability to apply the concepts upon your entry into practice. To prevent that, all programs are grappling with the impact Covid has had on student learning and are making curriculum changes to ameliorate the lack of clinicals.

PS I admit I am not a fan of limiting education to an online format for didactic information. But I do wonder where would we be now if on line instruction hadn't existed pre Covid? We still need a steady stream of nursing graduates to replace those who retire or die! I sincerely wish you all a better Fall 2021 and beyond.

almondjoy2 · Aug 22, 2021

hey guys, I'm finishing up the demsn and selling all my books. If anyone is interested please message me!

summer123 · Oct 21, 2021

On 6/9/2021 at 9:09 PM, damiorifice said:

I can only speak for semesters 1 & 2.

Semester 1 was very manageable, but the material is very conceptual and foundational (pharmacology and pathophysiology are the big hitters.) Lots of lectures, lots of studying, and many hard assignments.

Semester 2 is a whirlwind. At least for us. Summer and taking 18 credits. The health skills class was skipped last semester and crammed into our schedule now because of COVID. Lectures are minimal, but copious study groups are available. Material is more straightforward. You are going deeper into specific topics you covered in patho with the various theory courses. Tests and quizzes are 80% average overall each to pass. In between all this and the 1-2 days a week you have clinical related classes you have to practice skills and validate out of them at the learning center. Scheduling that, finding a buddy is a lifesaver for that. I’m 5 weeks in to the 14 weeks. It’s manageable, but not pleasant. They hit you with a firehose of info and activities.

Does Alverno provide eTextbooks? Or have additional resources available to students outside of Textbook and lecture? I would like to know if they have PrepU or something similar with practice questions for students? If so, does doing the PrepU or similar correlate/help with exams?

Guest1142305 · Oct 21, 2021

18 minutes ago, summer123 said:

Does Alverno provide eTextbooks? Or have additional resources available to students outside of Textbook and lecture? I would like to know if they have PrepU or something similar with practice questions for students? If so, does doing the PrepU or similar correlate/help with exams?

Classes are a mixed bag. Some have free resources others don’t. There’s an expensive Pearson textbook set you buy in the beginning that covers a ton of classes. It’s manageable.

I’ve heard later semesters have access to an NCLEX prep. I plan on paying for UWorld. It’s not that expensive and I’ve heard it is worth it.

I dropped to half-time semester 3 because of my wife’s high risk pregnancy. Alverno has overall been a good experience. Unforgiving, too fast, and occasionally nervous breakdown inducing, but a good experience.

summer123 · Oct 22, 2021

1 hour ago, damiorifice said:

Classes are a mixed bag. Some have free resources others don’t. There’s an expensive Pearson textbook set you buy in the beginning that covers a ton of classes. It’s manageable.

I’ve heard later semesters have access to an NCLEX prep. I plan on paying for UWorld. It’s not that expensive and I’ve heard it is worth it.

I dropped to half-time semester 3 because of my wife’s high risk pregnancy. Alverno has overall been a good experience. Unforgiving, too fast, and occasionally nervous breakdown inducing, but a good experience.

Thank you so much for your insight!!

londonflo · Oct 22, 2021

14 minutes ago, summer123 said:

I dropped to half-time semester 3 because of my wife’s high risk pregnancy.

Best heartfelt wishes for your wife and child

londonflo · Nov 2, 2021

On 10/21/2021 at 6:35 PM, damiorifice said:

Classes are a mixed bag

In the Master's educational part of the program, do you build on your experiences as an RN...developing a 'subject area' expertise and actually applying it in practice? For example (just an example) , developing a tool based on the current research or review of the literature and testing it?

For a Master's degree you must make a significant contribution to the body of knowledge for your discipline. (Your graduation gown will have 'closed sleeves' to show you have mastered a body of knowledge beyond a BSN., your BSN gown will have open sleeves to show you have more to learn ) Written papers should show a unique viewpoint of the syntheses of the subject matter or how does it differ from a BSN program, with extras thrown in?

Please know I am not blaming you, but the whole idea of "I want it fast and I want it now" has desecrated our profession and health care as a whole. No one practices their science and craft; just want to climb away from the bedside. I am so disappointed with the 'social climbers' who want to practice nursing without actually practicing it on an novice practice level.

Guest1142305 · Nov 7, 2021

On 11/2/2021 at 11:41 AM, londonflo said:

In the Master's educational part of the program, do you build on your experiences as an RN...developing a 'subject area' expertise and actually applying it in practice? For example (just an example) , developing a tool based on the current research or review of the literature and testing it?

For a Master's degree you must make a significant contribution to the body of knowledge for your discipline. (Your graduation gown will have 'closed sleeves' to show you have mastered a body of knowledge beyond a BSN., your BSN gown will have open sleeves to show you have more to learn ) Written papers should show a unique viewpoint of the syntheses of the subject matter or how does it differ from a BSN program, with extras thrown in?

Please know I am not blaming you, but the whole idea of "I want it fast and I want it now" has desecrated our profession and health care as a whole. No one practices their science and craft; just want to climb away from the bedside. I am so disappointed with the 'social climbers' who want to practice nursing without actually practicing it on an novice practice level.

My understanding is there is a final summative project that involves real world application of the knowledge gained to solve an actual identified health problem.

I lack 3 classes for the BSN and have only taken 1 of the MSN courses. My 3rd semester got split in half as I suspected my wife would have problems in this pregnancy (emergency cesarean for atypical preeclampsia with severe features at 36 weeks so I guess I was right!). The MSN level course was advanced pathophysiology. So far it has been delightfully rigorous. I much prefer it to the BSN level work which I found repetitive and often tedious. Alverno definitely appears to crank up the difficulty, content, and application expectations at graduate level.

I understand where you are coming from on having certain expectations of a Masters level course. My wife is from another country where higher education follows a European model. She holds a terminal masters and has written two thesis. Her father holds four graduate degrees (2 licenciatura, 1 masters, 1 PhD.) I gained my love for higher education and research from them.

When I studied theology there was a dichotomy in graduate degrees. There were degrees focused on praxis and those tailored toward research. MDiv -> Dmin. Praxis, working priest degrees that require practical projects. MAR -> MTh -> PhD or ThD. Research, theologian degrees that require significant contribution to the body of knowledge in the form of a thesis.

In some ways I wonder if Nursing education and research will follow a similar pattern in the future.

londonflo · Dec 12, 2021

On 8/4/2021 at 10:04 PM, greenbluegray said:

keyzlocs, I wouldn’t count on taking your NCLEX while still in school. You are not going to have time the prepare if you are a full time student. You may pass the predictor exam and be registered as eligible to sit, but I wouldn’t recommend it without a lot of extra studying outside of school. The NCLEX is expensive and you probably don’t want to have to take it more than once.

The NCLEX is basic nursing education. The predictor is designed to see if you have the knowledge for answering questions that encompass what a novice nurse should know. The longer you wait, the more that information you acquired is unused. NCLEX does not test MSN level knowledge.

I really don't understand a comment such as:

Quote

You are not going to have time the prepare if you are a full time student

Either the program provided a learner-centered environment for basic registered nursing education or it didn't. How come ADN programs can do it in 2 years? How can you build a Master's of Nursing education on a faulty or untested BSN knowledge base? I have always respected Alverno but I don't see how they are going to graduate qualified BSN/MSN practitioners if these circumstances are occurring:

1) They do not have students who feel comfortable with their basic knowledge to be RNs at the end of their 1-3 semesters (and most ABSN only take 2 semesters, ADNs 2 semesters)

2) A BSN graduate needs to enroll in a test preparation program before attempting boards. What did they learn and get tested on in their basic nursing education program? Alverno should be making the students aware and give experience on the NCLEX testing format.

3) What's with the faculty NOT communicating with students with regard to questions asked by the students?

4) While I was not an advocate for a student to work while attending school, my question is: why is this not recommended for the students who completed the BSN component while attending the MSN program. Yes, I worked and choosing your employment wisely can help you maintain a work/study/life balance. Now with the internet for online courses, an online library for articles and books, an ability to study anywhere, this should be easier than anytime since a Master's program was created!

5) Frankly in the dark ages, I spent every Saturday in the library searching for pertinent articles (Xeroxing them, 5 cents a page). (we had a seminar every week) Most students now do this all online. Is there a problem with Alverno's digital library holdings? Cutting this time out of a student's "to do' list should provide them much more time to complete other educational activities. It does for most online colleges

6) Why is there not a thesis required for an MSN student? How can an MSN-candidate contribute to the profession is they are just doing 'projects'? What new information to improve nursing practice is really coming out of this DEMSN program?

7) When the graduates get jobs that require entry level RN knowledge, substantial MSN knowledge and skills, an ability to research and develop new programs, an ability to teach others, etc. They may have a rude awakening while paying off monstrous debt.