Alverno DEMSN 2021

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I've recently been conditionally admitted to Alverno's demsn program, slated for Summer unless a spot opens up in Spring. The conditional being that I finish the labs for the prerequisites and two psychology courses as I've only finished the didactic portions in a marathon 9 week section.

Does anyone have any experience with this program, or Alverno in general? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Specializes in oncology.
1 hour ago, damiorifice said:

many from my first cohort already passed NCLEX with little trouble. 

 

1 hour ago, damiorifice said:

I do not expect to have any trouble passing NCLEX. 

I wonder why you have not taken NCLEX yet if others from your cohort have. I have always respected Alverno from the graduates I knew from there. I remember how surprised I was in my MSN program (at Marquette) when there were no textbooks, only seminars by each student,  with readings from pertinent journal articles, no lectures or 'pearls of wisdom' from a professor. The articles I had to go hunt down/ copy  at the library. I think I still have 3 boxes up in my attic from my graduate school days. BUT I learned a lot and it was all applicable at the time.

No PowerPoints, tests or directions for us. But we had 2 days of comprehensive exams at the end of the 2 years so you had had to retain everything (if we quoted -- we had to state the authors' names, the journal name and the year.) And we had substantiate anything we said. 

Would I be able to see the NCLEX scores from your cohort? What year would they have taken it?

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Just now, londonflo said:

 

I wonder why you have not taken NCLEX yet is others from your cohort have. I have always respected Alverno from the graduates I knew from there. I remember how surprised I was in my MSN program (at Marquette) when there were no textbooks, only seminars by each student,  with readings from pertinent journal articles, no lectures or 'pearls of wisdom' from a professor. The articles I had to go hunt down/ copy  at the library. I think I still have 3 boxes up in my attic from my graduate school days. BUT I learned a lot and it was all applicable at the time.

No PowerPoints, tests or directions for us. But we had 2 days of comprehensive exams at the end of the 2 years so you had had to retain everything (if we quoted -- we had to state the authors' names, the journal name and the year.) And we had substantiate anything we said. 

Would I be able to see the NCLEX scores from your cohort? What year would they have taken it?

I went part time and fell a semester behind my original cohort when my wife’s pregnancy became very complicated. 

Everyone I started with who was granted permission to test would have tested this year. They are currently using the ATI green light as the gate keeper to keep people from testing. I retake my predictor Monday. I look forward to knocking out NCLEX and moving forward. They won’t grant permission to test without it and you end up waiting until you finish the entire program otherwise. 
 

I have no doubt your MSN program was fruitful, but my goodness that sounds unpleasant. 

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Specializes in oncology.
34 minutes ago, damiorifice said:

Everyone I started with who was granted permission to test would have tested this year.

I just looked up the pass rates for Alverno that was updated to 8/22. 87% passed so you are in good hands for passing. Sometimes we hear the most from those who fail...always attributing it to the faculty or program. 

34 minutes ago, damiorifice said:

I have no doubt your MSN program was fruitful, but my goodness that sounds unpleasant. 

I am sorry I made it sound so unpleasant but I have published, provided programs and always stood my ground when some questioned what I believed. Those 2 years made me believe that I was an MSN prepared nurse.

I don't know how much of nursing diagnoses comes up today, but I coined the word 'at risk' for a nursing diagnoses and used it for 'at risk for infection' for a starter. I think the emphasis on nursing diagnoses has faded, and I believe that is a good thing. "The tail started wagging the dog" in education. But I still believe it helped start nurses having an identify for their profession. 

 

BTW did you know that different states had different passing rates until the 1980s? Wisconsin had the highest.

Is this 1920 NCLEX content better than today? Just joking!

 

 

 

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Specializes in oncology.
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7 minutes ago, londonflo said:

I just looked up the pass rates for Alverno that was updated to 8/22. 87% passed so you are in good hands for passing. Sometimes we hear the most from those who fail...always attributing it to the faculty or program. 

I am sorry I made it sound so unpleasant but I have published, provided programs and always stood my ground when some questioned what I believed. Those 2 years made me believe that I was an MSN prepared nurse.

I don't know how much of nursing diagnoses comes up today, but I coined the word 'at risk' for a nursing diagnoses and used it for 'at risk for infection' for a starter. I think the emphasis on nursing diagnoses has faded, and I believe that is a good thing. "The tail started wagging the dog" in education. But I still believe it helped start nurses having an identify for their profession. 

 

BTW did you know that different states had different passing rates until the 1980s? Wisconsin had the highest.

Is this content better than today? 

 

 

 

Looking through the sands of time, how much do you think the massive expansion of knowledge due to advances in technology has shaped medical and nursing education?

I was struck by the shear volume of information expansion when I would study older textbooks (I’m a sucker for thrift store books) versus newer ones. Combined with the push to accelerate programs I think we are approaching an untenable situation where you have to pick two of three attributes: sufficient knowledge, program speed, number of prepared graduates. 
 

‘My opinion is worth squat, but I personally don’t like the direction I see nursing education going. 

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Specializes in oncology.
1 hour ago, damiorifice said:

we are approaching an untenable situation where you have to pick two of three attributes: sufficient knowledge, program speed, number of prepared graduates. 

 Since you asked.... I don't agree with the program speed that is touted now....but as Mildred Montag showed with ADN programs, a competent graduate can be achieved (not in the two years she proclaimed...rather at least 3 (including pre requisites). I would caution though to add on another year and a half for a bachelor of science in nursing on top of the ADN. I am not a fan of  magnet status but it is getting this done,.

Since you asked...I see no reason for DEMSN programs because when the student/graduate is done, they have little more than a BSN with some kind of general MSN....Did the student really know what they wanted to study in depth?  And finding your passion is key to finding your happiness in your job. 

1 hour ago, damiorifice said:

how much do you think the massive expansion of knowledge due to advances in technology has shaped medical and nursing education?

Nursing IS nursing. No matter what the expansion of knowledge is we still care for someone going through a (may be) life changing experience. If anything has really helped the nurse it IS the technology. I started my career with IV pumps only used for TPN. How many 'run away' IVs did I feel bad about (infused too fast...usually positionally) ? To assess a blood glucose I had to have a patient urinate and 'dip stick' it. The urine only showed high glucose when the renal threshold was hit....probably 175 or so. Frankly assessment was only done through the eye, ear, and touch of the nurse. 

My opinion is also worth squat.

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23 hours ago, damiorifice said:

The WI program got better after a rough period of leadership shakeup. The current director of the DEMSN program is a godsend.

You will be expected to essentially teach yourself in this program. Very little hand holding. Lectures become progressively less useful as you get further into the program since as a Master’s level student you’re expected to be a significant self starter. Some people hate that.

They are integrating ATI into the program and it is helping.

The pace of the program is entirely unbearable for someone working or with kids (I have a large family.)

You have no say in your schedule or clinical site placement. If anything is wrong with the program, they always shift the fault to the students. They aggressively trimmed the fat from our cohorts when new leadership came on. Many people I started with are gone. I think maybe back then when Covid was hot they were admitting people they probably shouldn’t have.

You will find your peers now are generally VERY smart. They are recruiting very astute students now. 
 

Overall, how I wish I could have had it be like it is now all the way through, but such was the idiocy of Covid madness and the world losing their collective mind. Everything was just a mess back then.

I was honestly hoping someone would reiterate that point; a LOT of unfortunate circumstances took place in our education system due to COVID but now that we are kind of in this "up and down" of cases, I assumed that at least most nursing schools would have now adjusted to the changes in ways that benefit and also help their nursing students adjust.

When I started seeing multiple comments about ALverno going down the hill I was initially crushed but then had to consider a few factors a) when posts won this forum were posted both, initially and throughout b)the fact that COVID just started when a lot of the convo took place and c)that every nursing program has its issues. It's an accelerated program and one with a dual masters at that, it'll be tough but it seems like I can do it if I really apply myself and take absolute advantage of all resources offered to me if I get in the program.

Does anyone have any pros and cons about the Milwaukee area or around Alverno College in general? I'm coming from California and still have the option to choose between Mesa and Milwaukee but I'm really open to going to Milwaukee.

Honestly, being self taught comes down to dedication, accountability, and discipline right? I'm sure there are other important ingredients in that soup but I'm hoping that my recent return to school will have helped prepare me to take on that task again. I started retaking pre-reqs and cc's in  January 2021 and have basically self taught myself since then. I had to learn my good habits, my weaknesses, and to ASK ASK ASK QUESTIONS when I have them. As long as I have some access to study groups, sim labs, and hopefully my professors (in some capacity from what I hear) I should be fine. I like having recorded lectures simply because I always have access and can rewind as needed. I'm seriously hoping I adjust well but this is make it or break it for me and I didn't come this far to break it.

Thanks for the feedback on NCLEX pass rates. It seems the most important thing is to just study as much as humanly possible? What resources do you recommend?

Hey, it's a means to a greater end and the opportunity is available so why not take it? I completely relate but for slightly different reasons. I'm just looking forward to putting the hard work in to getting these two degrees and starting at bedside.

Thanks for being transparent, objective, and honest. It's encouraging.

I do not plan on working at all!! Maybe I'll take up a hobby like watering plants in my apartment LOL but nothing that distracts me from the program. I'm trying to take advantage of my lack of spouse and children and get ahead in my education. Kudos to you for getting it done as well! You're much stronger than I!

So are clinicals still unorganized and stressful or does it look like it will be streamlined and more compatible and realistic with student needs and desires?

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51 minutes ago, FloraTheExplorer said:

….

Clinicals were never really the issue for me. My instructors were awesome. I’m one of the lucky ones for that.

I have lived in the PNW and I have lived on the eastern seaboard. I even lived overseas for years. I’m in love with Wisconsin. You should honestly consider grabbing a cheap flight and visiting both places. My friends from San Diego absolutely adored Wisconsin. 
 

Understand I’m being intentionally guarded with what I say here. I am being metered, careful, transparent, and unemotional. I am trying not to let my emotions cloud my judgment. It has been an incredibly stressful process. I would say last semester rivaled my experience going through Boot Camp twice back to back due to injury. But, it does seem to be getting better, and they have rearranged the course schedule to accommodate for the intensity they saw the original format had on everyone. The program is growing and developing, and new programs have growing pains.


I will only recommend this program for young, single, and childless people. I am none of those things. 

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17 minutes ago, damiorifice said:

Clinicals were never really the issue for me. My instructors were awesome. I’m one of the lucky ones for that.

I have lived in the PNW and I have lived on the eastern seaboard. I even lived overseas for years. I’m in love with Wisconsin. You should honestly consider grabbing a cheap flight and visiting both places. My friends from San Diego absolutely adored Wisconsin. 
 

Understand I’m being intentionally guarded with what I say here. I am being metered, careful, transparent, and unemotional. I am trying not to let my emotions cloud my judgment. It has been an incredibly stressful process. I would say last semester rivaled my experience going through Boot Camp twice back to back due to injury. But, it does seem to be getting better, and they have rearranged the course schedule to accommodate for the intensity they saw the original format had on everyone. The program is growing and developing, and new programs have growing pains.


I will only recommend this program for young, single, and childless people. I am none of those things. 

Good to hear - I do better with hands on learning when it comes to things like applying nursing skills so I'm hoping I get lucky with professors like you.

Oh I'm already planning on visiting both sites in a few months! Definitely need to see them in person. I've heard LOTS of good things about Wisconsin so let's hope it all works out for the best. Also I've been looking for housing and these are some of the best deals I have seen in a very long time!! 

I definitely didn't get the vibe that you were coming off emotional or biased in any way; I sincerely apologize if it came off like that. I certainly felt like you took both positives and negatives, and of course the restraints of covid, into account.

From my research and things I've read on a lot of these forums, it seems like a good fit for me so far.

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6 minutes ago, FloraTheExplorer said:

….

I was letting you know I was being measured in my response because a lot of people online are not. I share their frustrations, but I am also cognizant that some of it was expected. Not all of the treatment we received was excusable.

I am being quite pointed in my statements because I want you to receive a realistic picture of how difficult it will really be. You better be tough, or it can break you. It is not a forgiving program. I am a very intelligent individual, and I have struggled in particular classes that seem to act as gate keepers for the program. If you go down this road, watch you studying habits for basic and advanced patho classes, basic and advanced pharma classes, the class covering metabolic imbalances, the research project class, and advanced health and assessment.  

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I am set to graduate December ‘22.

Passed NCLEX, first try, and became licensed November ‘22.

Alverno, for all it’s logistical faults, gave me a solid and challenging education.

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17 hours ago, damiorifice said:

I am set to graduate December ‘22.

Passed NCLEX, first try, and became licensed November ‘22.

Alverno, for all it’s logistical faults, gave me a solid and challenging education.

Hello damiorifice,

 

Thanks so much for adding to this discussion. I just made the decision today to push my start date. I still think Alverno is the right school for me (and have also expanded to other programs in the meantime) but I’m keeping it flexible and open until I’m actually ready next fall. 
 

do you have any feedback about the length of the program? How were the professors? What campus did you complete your program at? How well did the program and faculty prepare you for NCLEX exam and did you have to look for outside resources (either given by Alverno or externally)? What was the first semester like compared to the end? Would you say the course load was manageable? I have some other questions but I’m about to head back into jury duty..

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