Alternative to AA?

dirtyhippiegirl, BSN, RN · Oct 23, 2016

Some areas offer Buddhist 12 step programs...and Buddha is NOT a diety; Buddhism is a philosophy not a religion.

Uh... I am pretty sure the millions of non-white, non-upper middle class (ie poor brown) people who worship Buddha as a diety and Buddhism as a religion would like to have a word with you.

dirtyhippiegirl, BSN, RN · Oct 23, 2016

If you ARE a member, it might be time to think about the first step. The first step is: 1. Admitted we were powerless over alcohol-- that our lives had become unmanageable. That is a big thing to happen. You can want to stop drinking and still not think that you are powerless over alcohol and that your life has become unmanageable. If that has happened for you, then you are ready to think about the second step. If not, no problem. Just keep going to meetings and see what happens. Maybe you will never get there, that is okay. As long as you have a desire to stop drinking you are on track. It could take 30 years and that is fine. You could die before the first step happens for you and that is fine also.
No need to believe in God. No need to pretend to believe anything at all. Best wishes!

That works to a point but what happens after the first step? The vast majority of AAers are going to tell a newcomer to get a sponsor and work the steps or else they won't stay sober. I've seen open shaming of hypothetical members who attend meetings purely for the social aspect. Every Atheist or Agnostic addresses the God issue at some point if they stick around in the program.

CattyWampus · Oct 23, 2016

Uh... I am pretty sure the millions of non-white, non-upper middle class (ie poor brown) people who worship Buddha as a diety and Buddhism as a religion would like to have a word with you.

"

Is it a religion?

]It is neither a religion in the sense in which that word is commonly understood, for it is not "a system of faith and worship owing any allegiance to a supernatural being."

Buddhism does not demand blind faith from its adherents. Here mere belief is dethroned and is substituted by confidence based on knowledge, which, in Pali, is known as saddha. The confidence placed by a follower on the Buddha is like that of a sick person in a noted physician, or a student in his teacher. A Buddhist seeks refuge in the Buddha because it was he who discovered the path of deliverance.

A Buddhist does not seek refuge in the Buddha with the hope that he will be saved by his (i.e. the Buddha's own) personal purification. The Buddha gives no such guarantee. It is not within the power of a Buddha to wash away the impurities of others. One could neither purify nor defile another. The Buddha, as teacher, instructs us, but we ourselves are directly responsible for our purification. Although a Buddhist seeks refuge in the Buddha, he does not make any self-surrender. Nor does a Buddhist sacrifice his freedom of thought by becoming a follower of the Buddha. He can exercise his own free will and develop his knowledge even to the extent of becoming a Buddha himself.

The starting point of Buddhism is reasoning or understanding, or, in the Pali words, samma-ditthi. "

At least the many books I've read make a distinction between buddhism as a RELIGION and buddha as DIETY. If others interpret it differently, all well and good. The readings I've done indicate it is not ... or not, necessarily. :)

dirtyhippiegirl, BSN, RN · Oct 23, 2016

Journal of Global Buddhism

This is a pretty good article on white privilege, American Buddhism, and ethnic Buddhists in America. Ethnic Buddhists and Asian Buddhists in general tend to practice Buddhism in a religious way. The emphasis on meditation and the philosophical side of Buddhism did not become prevalent among lay worshipers until it was introduced to the West. "The Making of Buddhist Modernism" is also a good text on the subject although kind of dense. :/

brownbook · Oct 23, 2016

I resisted Al anon for years because I am an atheist. Well....I went a few times but it never "took".

Then last time I tried it someone shared that they unconsciously thought they were a higher power. They unconsciously thought they had the ability to, or were able to, or obligation to, help others in need, from alcoholics to a stranger stranded in an airport. (She was ready to drive 60 miles out of her way to help a passenger who's alcoholic husband hadn't shown up.)

The light bulb suddenly went on and the sharer realized she was not a higher power, did not have higher powers over anyone but herself. Every adult has their own higher power, their own ability to figure out their own problems, work out their own solutions. Or at least has to learn to figure out for their selves how to fix their problems.

Since then I felt comfortable with what higher power means to me.

Give it a try, you may find many members are not very religious.

VegGal, BSN, RN · Oct 23, 2016

Hi all! I was wondering what your take was on being an atheist and being mandated to 12 step meetings. I am open minded but are there secular groups? Thanks!

SOS - Secular Organizations for Sobriety. Good luck!

sallyrnrrt, ADN, RN · Oct 23, 2016

That's disingenuous at best. The most succinct response (I'm on my phone ya'all) being that if Atheists and Agnostics were comfortable praying to doorknobs - which is advice that open non-believers get by the bushel in a meeting, ever - they wouldn't have felt the need to form splinter groups that reword the steps, take the serenity and lord's prayer out of a meeting, and focus on adjunct literature like Sober Living.

With over 28yrs sobriety, I am anything but disingenuous,

that at was me in very early sobriety, where I absolutly knew electricity was more powerful than me, and I thought I was agnostic........ Thankfully, the program works,, my recovery evolved,

and and today my higher power is traditional.......but that electricity higher power got me two years sobriety in the beginning......

safenurse10 · Oct 24, 2016

Thanks! Everyone here has great feedback. :up:

reggaemuffin, MSN, NP, CNS · Oct 24, 2016

AA should be a choice. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. That means you choose, someone else doesn't choose for you. Because of the whole "desire" part.
If you don't fulfill this requirement, you aren't a member. A drunk person who wants to stop drinking fulfills the requirement. A currently sober person who has no intentions to stop drinking but has to go to meetings to keep a professional license is not a member.
If you do not want to stop drinking, you should go to open meetings only, out of respect for the members.
If you do want to stop drinking, then don't worry about the steps. The steps are things that happen or don't, and there is no requirement to fulfill them, or to get them done in some amount of time, or any of that. You could be a member for 50 years, and only do the first step or not even really ever complete the first step. And that would be absolutely fine.
The idea of a higher power doesn't even come into play until the second step.
Why worry about that before you do the first step, or even decide that you are a member?
First decide whether you are a member (that you have a desire to stop drinking) or just a visitor getting requirements in. Either is fine. Just decide and then attend only open or both open and closed meetings as necessary.
If you are not a member, that is all you need to do.
If you ARE a member, it might be time to think about the first step. The first step is: 1. Admitted we were powerless over alcohol-- that our lives had become unmanageable. That is a big thing to happen. You can want to stop drinking and still not think that you are powerless over alcohol and that your life has become unmanageable. If that has happened for you, then you are ready to think about the second step. If not, no problem. Just keep going to meetings and see what happens. Maybe you will never get there, that is okay. As long as you have a desire to stop drinking you are on track. It could take 30 years and that is fine. You could die before the first step happens for you and that is fine also.
No need to believe in God. No need to pretend to believe anything at all. Best wishes!

Yeah I think everyone in recovery who has attended AA is aware of this. The topic is being mandated to go to these meetings by the BON. Which means they have lost the "choice"

dirtyhippiegirl, BSN, RN · Oct 24, 2016

With over 28yrs sobriety, I am anything but disingenuous,
that at was me in very early sobriety, where I absolutly knew electricity was more powerful than me, and I thought I was agnostic........ Thankfully, the program works,, my recovery evolved,
and and today my higher power is traditional.......but that electricity higher power got me two years sobriety in the beginning......

I'm glad that worked for you but surely you can be empathetic enough to know that doesn't work for everyone. The guy who started the Atheist AA groups in my area has 35 years of recovery (if you want to throw around numbers like that) -- he worked the steps as a militant Atheist, is still a militant Atheist, and helps other militant Atheists who can't reconcile praying on their knees to an interventionist-God doorknob to restore their sanity/take away their character defects find a place in the program.

malamud69, BSN, RN · Oct 24, 2016

Sadly...where as an outdated paradigm based on religious mumbo jumbo rules the day and the powers that be are lazy at best to offer anything in the face of irefutable "scientific" evidence, we are in effect stuck to "do time"

FolksBtrippin, BSN, RN · Oct 24, 2016

I agree with all of the above. My gripe is with the standard boilerplate set of stipulations. I don't and never have drank (can't even gag the stuff the down). and do not do drugs. I cannot "have the desire" to stop doing something I don't do in the first place. Essentially I am forced to attend meetings in a "club" for which I am not a member and don't even meet the qualifications for membership.As I've said before, i feel my presence is an insult to the people who want to be there.
AA (or other incarnations of 12 step things) are what they are and are great for some folks, but the legal (court ordered) and contract ordered stuff is inappropriate and an abuse of the AA, etc. system. Just my opinion.

Why are you mandated to go?