All these NPs making less than RNs?

[2bnpcout]

So recently, I've had quite a few co-workers and friends start graduating from FNP programs. Most were RNs for 4-7 years (not travel nurses, just standard hospital RNs). From talking to them, most have taken a pay cut becoming an FNP.

Kind of discouraging.. I wanted to do a PNP program, but with limited job opportunities, I decided on going the FNP route. Planned to start in January.

This is located about an hour from philly, in the Lehigh Valley, Allentown Area. RNs typically start around 22-24$ an hour here.

Is there a lot of truth to this? Is that common?

[fmAtoZ&backagain]

academic status seems to make people feel more qualified. I think lots of people, especially the younger people just now getting into the workforce, seem to be under this impression that higher education means higher pay.

I think that happens with RN and BSN, people got the same salary, well I got 25 dollars every 2 weeks more. When I started in a new hospital the LVNs used to challenged and trick me to show me they knew more practical things, than me as BSN.

On a semi-unrelated note, I hate how politics want to pit nurses against each other. "BSN-RN's are better critical thinkers!" "Having your DNP will make you more family centered and patient focused!" No, no, no. I realize the schools and hospitals have to "sell" it to the nurses to get them to go back to school, but it's really offensive and such a put-down to nursing in general.

I agree with you, but unfortunately we as nurses tend to disrespect our peers. We had a class in the school that put down new nurses who started FNP program, they told them they could not be good FNP if they did not have experience, which for me does not make sense, our view is different, we have a different perspective of the patient situation in my opinion.

The lack of respect is also by class of nursing we do, for example the ICU nurses they feel they know more than Tele nurses, Tele nurses feel they know more than Med-Surg nurses.. etc. which is wrong.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

I will agree about the money PMFB-RN, but the way I see it is to gain respect of our profession, not now, but in the future.

I respect your opinion, however my observation is that it has had the opposite effect. I have seen things and heard comments that lead to believe that the DNP makes us the laughing stock in health care.

It costs more, in many cases MUCH more and takes longer. The NP is suppose to be a cost effective provider of high quality health care. That is the strength of the NP. Why are we fighting that? Why don't we embrace that worthy goal?

How many times have you seen a patient and they will ask why a nurse, they want to see the doctor, thinking the will get less quality of care, when is proven otherwise.

Never that I can recall.

Our profession has not received the respect that we show in the outcome studies. We are considered as middle level... why?

First I hate the term midlevel and don't use it except to refer to PAs. What does the term midlevel say about RNs? If the NP is a midlevel who is the low level?

I don't think we deserve the respect that we crave. We keep doing things that demonstrate we don't have our act together.. In my view anyway.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

I agree PMFB-RN. Unfortunately, we live in a culture these days that academic status seems to make people feel more qualified. I think lots of people, especially the younger people just now getting into the workforce, seem to be under this impression that higher education means higher pay.

If true then it demonstrates a failing in their education.

For a lot of careers, I'm sure that is the case. But you are totally correct... having your DNP does not qualify you anymore as a practitioner than having a MSN - Who is precepting those DNP students right now? MSN APRNS.

Good point.

I've seen this with the RN-BSN push, as well. Lots of hospitals are trying to reach Magnet status and want that 80% BSN RN rate. Most of the people I speak with in RN-BSN programs do not feel they have learned very much to make them a better nurse.

Two things. First lets admit that any hospital still on their "Journey to Magnet" is probably a dump. Besides among my critical care, ER, transport type nurse friends Magnet has come to mean crappy place to work. I went out of my way to work in a high quality hospital that was NOT Magnet.

Second I agree with those people. I feel I got dumber in my BSN program. Everybody I know shares that experience. Only when I come on to AN do I find a different experience.

On a semi-unrelated note, I hate how politics want to pit nurses against each other. "BSN-RN's are better critical thinkers!" "Having your DNP will make you more family centered and patient focused!"

You do realize the reason those "benefits" are trumpeted don't you? For the simple reason that they are un-measurable.

[Riburn3, BSN, MSN, APRN, NP]

While I agree with much of what you said PMFB, however, research has proven time and again that BSN trained nurses have better outcomes compared to ADN nurses. Magnet hospital or not, if having a BSN means patients have better outcomes, then why not pursue it?

You are spot on regarding the DNP and it's increased cost and delaying of providers to the market. I toil with this dilemma regularly. If MSN-NP's are already providing quality care similar or better than that of physicians, why make it longer and more expensive to become one? Now having said that, with the DNP being so new, there is basically no research indicating the quality of a DNP compared to an MSN NP. If they did establish DNP's have better outcomes, then research would need to be done to establish if the outcomes are significant enough to be worth the extra cost in school. Lot's of questions remain regarding the DNP, but where we sit today, it's hard to justify the extra cost when it offers no changes in scope of practice, and no current evidence of better quality.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

You are spot on regarding the DNP and it's increased cost and delaying of providers to the market. I toil with this dilemma regularly. If MSN-NP's are already providing quality care similar or better than that of physicians, why make it longer and more expensive to become one? Now having said that, with the DNP being so new, there is basically no research indicating the quality of a DNP compared to an MSN NP. If they did establish DNP's have better outcomes, then research would need to be done to establish if the outcomes are significant enough to be worth the extra cost in school. Lot's of questions remain regarding the DNP, but where we sit today, it's hard to justify the extra cost when it offers no changes in scope of practice, and no current evidence of better quality.

'

Does anyone else see the irony of the fairly recent advent of 3 year med schools that came right on the heels of the DNP push?

My state has a brach of a long respected and established medical school that is a 3 year medical school. Students graduate as regular MDs like those who graduate from tradition 4 year med schools. So while medicine is experimenting with fewer years of school, at least partialy to reduce costs, nursing is busy increasing the time and money commitment for APNs.

[cruisin_woodward]

I am making $10 an hour more as an NP, but I am working my BUTT off. (I was maxed out as an RN) I am also in a surgical specialty. Along with that pay raise, came terrible hours, more call, and a heck of a lot more responsibility. I actually hate it right now, and regret going back.

I also did the BSN to DNP and am regretting it. It financially ruined me. And I'm not even using my degree in this position. Grrrhhh I'm frustrated. May not be the best time for me to post encouraging words. LOL

[jellojuggler]

Hi! I am a FNP with 6 months now on the job.... I originally did a master's entry into nursing program, but went through slowly and worked for 5 years as an RN. I started as my FNP job as salary making $4 per hour more than my hourly wage as RN - however - I work more hours and do not get paid for it, have less flexibility in my schedule (strictly M-F 8-5 vs 24 hour possibility as RN), and it is more difficult to take time off due to coverage. I actually made more money before - easily worked OT. I came to this thread for some reassurance.... I don't know... I will stick it out another 6 months- but might go right back to my RN job. As a FNP - I like my patients and the ability to help people and have autonomy - but the responsibility and "seriousness" of what I do gets to me - I miss just being a worker and leaving work when I go home. Now I get calls from the lab or imaging on evenings/weekends and need to deal with it at that time. Plus - due to finances I still work at my RN job on Sundays. I am hoping to find a better niche after my 1 year experience mark - or talk my current facility into a raise or better schedule ( I work at multiple clinics now).

[angel337, MSN, RN]

I think for any RN that has already reached the top of their payscale, the beginning NP salary may not be too impressive depending on where they work and location. For someone that has been an RN for 5 years or less, the NP salary is definitely an increase. Many RN's exaggerate their incomes, they don't discuss the 30 hours OT and night shifts that they had to do in order to make the 100k per year...especially folks that do registry with no benefits. So sure, if you are making 46/hr registry with no benefits and working all holidays, weekends and night shifts, its easy to say you will take a pay "cut" in order to become an NP. You must look at the entire deck of cards.

[NJprisonrn]

I'm in Southern NJ, not too far from Philly. I made 25-35/hr as an RN (doctor's offices and prison, never hospital). I make WAY more as an NP. I have an FNP but I'm mostly working with adults in a wound care practice.

[Jules A, MSN]

I have seen things and heard comments that lead to believe that the DNP makes us the laughing stock in health care.

.

Yup. Physicians who are very NP supportive have made negative comments, especially when learning the DNP curriculum doesn't even include additional pharmacology. Bottom line is our education with regard to prescribing is inferior to the medical model and sadly the DNP doesn't do anything to close that gap.

OP I make well over 2xs what I made as a floor nurse but my area pays well as does a psych specialty. There is no way I'd take on this level of responsibility and time commitment if I wasn't making serious bank.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

Bottom line is our education with regard to prescribing is inferior to the medical model and sadly the DNP doesn't do anything to close that gap.

Inferior in what way? Please cite an outcome study that supports this. Moreover, maybe all the NPs (including me) should be removed from our positions teaching medical students pharmacology.

Sent from my iPhone.

[Jules A, MSN]

I have no need to "cite an outcome study that supports this" but will ask how many credit hours of pharm does an average MS program require to prescribe? and how many credit hours does med school require?

I'm not sure why you would ask if all NPs should be removed from anything. Wow.