All these NPs making less than RNs?

[2bnpcout]

So recently, I've had quite a few co-workers and friends start graduating from FNP programs. Most were RNs for 4-7 years (not travel nurses, just standard hospital RNs). From talking to them, most have taken a pay cut becoming an FNP.

Kind of discouraging.. I wanted to do a PNP program, but with limited job opportunities, I decided on going the FNP route. Planned to start in January.

This is located about an hour from philly, in the Lehigh Valley, Allentown Area. RNs typically start around 22-24$ an hour here.

Is there a lot of truth to this? Is that common?

[Riburn3, BSN, MSN, APRN, NP]

I've already worked significantly with the physician I am working with after graduating, and know exactly what my hours are like. The reality is we take the last patients between 3:45 and 4:00, and the last hour or so is reserved for extra charting. There are standing computers in every single hallway and in patients room, and the charting is done while with the patients on a very easy to use interactive charting system, which I am already very familiar with. Our half day similarly ends at 12 and the last hour is for catch up.

I have no doubt that some days will require some extra time, and I will have a few wake up moments, but to be honest, you have no idea what my work situation is like, and you have not been in my clinic for thousands of hours like me. For you to make those generalizations about a job you know nothing about is ignorant.

[carachel2]

Riburn...I'm not ignorant. Trust me. Your office is vastly different than the way most IM and FP practices work...cramming in patients up until 5 pm and then with providers charting and catching up until well after 6-7 pm or taking the charting home. I've been around here and other online NP forums for *years* and trust me when I say at least every 10th post is from a new NP who took a 9-5 salaried job and then is full of shock and dismay at the burnout they are experiencing when they realize they are not compensated for those extra hours and they are really working 10+ hours per week that are not paid.

Sounds like you landed a great gig in a well run office.

[Riburn3, BSN, MSN, APRN, NP]

I agree, and that's why I took the job. I know exactly what type of situation you are talking about, and am avoiding it like the plague. I'm also lucky to have significant work experience in the clinic I am going into, versus new grads that cling to the first offer they get out of desperation.

Im not naive enough the believe there aren't going to be some very long days, especially when first getting my feet wet, but I know what I'm walking into.

[uta.student]

Sure there will be some overlap, where experienced RNs have topped out at the payscale and new grad NPs are just starting out on the bottom rung of the NP ladder. There is so much more to think about than just the actual number per hour/ per year, such as ability for salary increase over time and fringe beneftis (401K, CME, vacation/ PT0, profit sharing etc). Overall, there may be some RNs who hold high-ranking positions or travel/ work a ton of OT who are making more than what a new NP makes but after a few years, the NP is making considerably more due to raises.

Cardiac

I'm glad you brought this up. I actually had just made a thread about it. I hear so many people talking about pay cuts going from RN to NP but my question was: is that because most people have worked as an RN for a while and, like you said, topped out the pay scale, or is it just because there is not much difference between the starting salary of an NP and RN? I plan to work as an RN for only a short time(about a year) before going for for my DNP, will I not see a significant difference in salary/benefits?

[fmAtoZ&backagain]

In Texas, for what I know is not pay difference between FNP and DNP.

[irish_rainbow, BSN, MSN, DNP, NP]

In Texas, for what I know is not pay difference between FNP and DNP.

Yes, fmAtoZ&backagain is correct. At least in my area, as well (Arkansas), there is no pay increase for your MSN to DNP as a practitioner (teaching may be a whole different story). I have not heard of any other places paying more for a DNP. At least right now, the DNP seems to be for your own personal choice and growth. Also, will someday be the standard entry into practice, but no telling when that will actually take effect. I would not expect to make more money going from MSN to DNP.

[Riburn3, BSN, MSN, APRN, NP]

Fursans,

If you are going from a relatively new RN into a DNP program, then you will see a handsome pay increase. In my area, a new RN makes between $40-50k in their first year depending on a couple things like night shift and if they do overtime. New NP's here start anywhere between $80k-100k, meaning the starting pay between the two positions at entry doubles.

When people say NP's don't make much more, they are comparing RN's that are at the top of the scale with lots of experience, usually working nights and overtime, to a brand new NP. The comparison should be to NP's with equal experience in years as that RN. For example, my most recent preceptor has 5 years of experience, works in pecs clinic mon-fri 8 hour days, and twice a month does a 5 hour night clinic duty where she gets a flat $500 per shift. Her overall take-home is $120,000. My next preceptor has 10 years of experience, works like a dog, similar to RN's doing overtime, and he has a contract where he does 14 12-hour shifts in an ER each month, and 8 10-hour shifts in an urgent care. His take him is over $200k.

Compare an RN working 3 12 hour shifts, no weekends, no overtime, to an NP with equal experience, working 35-40 hours a week, no weekends, no call, no overtime. The NP is likely always going to win.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Yes, fmAtoZ&backagain is correct. At least in my area, as well (Arkansas), there is no pay increase for your MSN to DNP as a practitioner (teaching may be a whole different story). I have not heard of any other places paying more for a DNP. At least right now, the DNP seems to be for your own personal choice and growth. Also, will someday be the standard entry into practice, but no telling when that will actually take effect. I would not expect to make more money going from MSN to DNP.

Why should an NP with a DNP ever expect to make more than any other NP? Do they have an expanded scope of practice? Do they receive a higher reimbursement for their services than NPs with MSNs? Are they licensed to preform procedures, or care for a different patient population than MSN prepared NPs?

The DNP is a pay cut for NPs and I am surprised at how meekly nursing has accepted it.

[gerry79]

New grad NP. Was an RN for 7 years top wage $34.60/hr (October 2013). Started my NP position October 2013 and make $52.30/hr. I would have had to have stayed at my RN job over 20 years (based on 1.5% pay raise per year) to make what I now make. And I don't do overnights. Sure, I still work holidays ($78/hr, $105/hr for working Christmas) and weekends ($57/hr), but I am at a much happier place now.

For some, it may not be about the money, but about a better quality of life.

[fmAtoZ&backagain]

The DNP is a pay cut for NPs and I am surprised at how meekly nursing has accepted it.

I will agree about the money PMFB-RN, but the way I see it is to gain respect of our profession, not now, but in the future. How many times have you seen a patient and they will ask why a nurse, they want to see the doctor, thinking the will get less quality of care, when is proven otherwise. Our profession has not received the respect that we show in the outcome studies. We are considered as middle level... why?

[irish_rainbow, BSN, MSN, DNP, NP]

Why should an NP with a DNP ever expect to make more than any other NP? Do they have an expanded scope of practice? Do they receive a higher reimbursement for their services than NPs with MSNs? Are they licensed to preform procedures, or care for a different patient population than MSN prepared NPs?

The DNP is a pay cut for NPs and I am surprised at how meekly nursing has accepted it.

I agree PMFB-RN. Unfortunately, we live in a culture these days that academic status seems to make people feel more qualified. I think lots of people, especially the younger people just now getting into the workforce, seem to be under this impression that higher education means higher pay. For a lot of careers, I'm sure that is the case. But you are totally correct... having your DNP does not qualify you anymore as a practitioner than having a MSN - Who is precepting those DNP students right now? MSN APRNS.

I've seen this with the RN-BSN push, as well. Lots of hospitals are trying to reach Magnet status and want that 80% BSN RN rate. Most of the people I speak with in RN-BSN programs do not feel they have learned very much to make them a better nurse.

On a semi-unrelated note, I hate how politics want to pit nurses against each other. "BSN-RN's are better critical thinkers!" "Having your DNP will make you more family centered and patient focused!" No, no, no. I realize the schools and hospitals have to "sell" it to the nurses to get them to go back to school, but it's really offensive and such a put-down to nursing in general.

[irish_rainbow, BSN, MSN, DNP, NP]

I will agree about the money PMFB-RN, but the way I see it is to gain respect of our profession, not now, but in the future. How many times have you seen a patient and they will ask why a nurse, they want to see the doctor, thinking the will get less quality of care, when is proven otherwise. Our profession has not received the respect that we show in the outcome studies. We are considered as middle level... why?

I do agree with you on that. I do realize that we want to be recognized and respected as professionals. However, I do worry that we are putting respect of nursing as a whole over the individual respect that we give each other in this process to figure out the ladder.