ADN's being pushed out

Published

I work for a large Magnet hospital. As nursing becomes more popular, and nurses not in short supply, I have noticed something ominous has being going on lately. Several of our older and very seasoned ADN nurses are being fired. The excuses for firing are ridiculous. I have sadly seen some excellent nurses lose their jobs. I am wondering if they want to get rid of the ADNs so they can look "better" with an all BSN staff. Or perhaps they want rid of older nurses who have been there longer because they are higher on the pay scale. Either way, it is very scarey. I myself am BSN, and i am not ashamed to say that what I know does not hold a candle to these fired nurses. Any thoughts?

Specializes in LTC Rehab Med/Surg.

I didn't read all the previous posts, I just read the title of the thread.

We've been having issues with our new BSNs. Our NEW BSNs. As in new grads.

Education snobs.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

In response to BostonFNP:

"You can continue to say that you are just waiting for data to change your mind, but be honest about the fact there will be an excuse for any data that would change your mind".

The only data produced for the argument for BSN entry into nursing was that provided by the Linda Aikens, Patricia Benners and Karen Ballards of the world along with a handful of others promoting their own self interests. Nurses, look up who these people are employed by and you'll see what I mean. Read the subsequent postings here and on other sites and you'll find that most nurses don't want a BSN mandate nor is it needed. It's what a handful of academic elitists, who seem to feel that because they have a few letters after their names we should all bow to every word they say, want.

We are not the ones trying to push our ideals onto anyone. We're just saying, let it be a nurse's choice to decide to further their education. Patient satisfaction scores at hospitals in my area who instituted a BSN only hiring policy have dropped; just as I had predicted. Hiring nurses based on what type of degree they have is about the most narrow-minded, short-sighted thing I heard of. By your theory, a nurse with a doctorate will always make the best nurse. Dream on. As one nurse said; "Put an advanced degreed nurse manager on a floor with a slot of 8-10 patients and you'll really see mortality rates increase."

I have working with a representative from a major TV news station about getting the word out to the public letting them know what hospitals and so-called nursing leaders are trying to do. And it has nothing to do with providing better patient care.

I have another suggestion. Nurses who haven't practiced actual patient care in over ten years should be required to do some sort of remediation in order to renew their licenses. I don't care how long they've done it before. They shouldn't be able to call themselves nurses if they haven't taken care of a patient in over ten years. This makes just about as much sense as a BSN mandate.

Nurses should contact their state nurse's associations and tell them you are no longer going to pay membership dues until they stop pushing for BSN mandates. Hit them were it hurts, it's the only thing they'll understand.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ICU.

I am so sick of this tired, same old argument. I have been an RN for 24 years now. I got my ADN at a 4 year university. Then I got my BSN. Point being, not everybody that has an ADN got it from a "community college." Many 4-year universities offer the ADN, then you can take a few more fluff classes and get the BSN. In my case, all I had to take was more humanities; the actual nursing classes were the same. Plus, I already had a previous degree in business administration/accounting, from the 70's. I am so tired of newly minted BSN's trying to put diploma/ADN nurses down. Frankly, after 24 years in the business, I don't see where the BSN's are superior nurses, at all. To me, experience counts more than anything. At my university, the requirements to get into the ADN program are much more stringent; you have to have a higher ACT score to get into the ADN program; you have to maintain an 84 or above on every single test. (At the same school, the BSN's can make a 70 and pass.) If you weren't a great student, you never would have gotten into the ADN program to start with. The great push for the BSN has been recent. I remember when the lowly diploma RN's were considered superior, because of the quality of their program. Also, many ADN programs are 3 years, not 2. It all depends on what school you go to. The ones who couldn't make it in the ADN program, went into the BSN program because it was easier to pass! Plus you had more time to dawdle; you couldn't do that in the ADN program! The degree doesn't necessarily make the nurse. You still abide by the same laws, policies, etc., regardless what degree you have; you still take the same boards, and you still have the same scope of practice. My Director of Nursing is "just" an ADN, by the way.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in critical care, ER,ICU, CVSURG, CCU.
I am so sick of this tired, same old argument. I have been an RN for 24 years now. I got my ADN at a 4 year university. Then I got my BSN. Point being, not everybody that has an ADN got it from a "community college." Many 4-year universities offer the ADN, then you can take a few more fluff classes and get the BSN. In my case, all I had to take was more humanities; the actual nursing classes were the same. Plus, I already had a previous degree in business administration/accounting, from the 70's. I am so tired of newly minted BSN's trying to put diploma/ADN nurses down. Frankly, after 24 years in the business, I don't see where the BSN's are superior nurses, at all. To me, experience counts more than anything. At my university, the requirements to get into the ADN program are much more stringent; you have to have a higher ACT score to get into the ADN program; you have to maintain an 84 or above on every single test. (At the same school, the BSN's can make a 70 and pass.) If you weren't a great student, you never would have gotten into the ADN program to start with. The great push for the BSN has been recent. I remember when the lowly diploma RN's were considered superior, because of the quality of their program. Also, many ADN programs are 3 years, not 2. It all depends on what school you go to. The ones who couldn't make it in the ADN program, went into the BSN program because it was easier to pass! Plus you had more time to dawdle; you couldn't do that in the ADN program! The degree doesn't necessarily make the nurse. You still abide by the same laws, policies, etc., regardless what degree you have; you still take the same boards, and you still have the same scope of practice. My Director of Nursing is "just" an ADN, by the way.

this 41+yr. diploma grad was once again summoned out of "attempted retirement" to be DON on a large LTC

i did not apply for this job, i was recruited by the owner :angrybird12:

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
In response to BostonFNP:

Patient satisfaction scores at hospitals in my area who instituted a BSN only hiring policy have dropped; just as I had predicted. Hiring nurses based on what type of degree they have is about the most narrow-minded, short-sighted thing I heard of. By your theory, a nurse with a doctorate will always make the best nurse. Dream on. As one nurse said; "Put an advanced degreed nurse manager on a floor with a slot of 8-10 patients and you'll really see mortality rates increase."

They shouldn't be able to call themselves nurses if they haven't taken care of a patient in over ten years.

You again quote your newspaper article. What kind of satisfaction scores? Nursing specific? What are the staffing ratios at that hospital compared to others? What is the census acuity level compared to others? What is the percentage of BSN nurses at the hospital in question compared to others? Please get back to us with these answers so we can evaluate the data.

A nurse with a doctorate is not necessarily a "better nurse" than a nurse with an ADN. That is not the "theory" at all, and it shows how little you truly understand the issue at hand.

I haven't been a bedside RN in three years. I am willing I bet I could more than keep up with you in the floor with your how many years experience?

That last line about not being a nurse anymore is a joke right?

Up Vote Up Vote ×

In response to BostonFNP:

That last line about not being a nurse anymore is a joke right?

It's the same level of a joke as the one postulated by a group of self-serving idiots who if they had their way would not want to allow nurses to renew their licenses unless they earn a BSN within 10 years.

As CrunchRN said in a previous post; if it was just about requiring new nurses to earn a BSN in 10 years and grandfathering in previous nurses, I would be OK with that. But unlike other professions, their ultimate goal is to require it for every nurse.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.
*** You can get a BSN in 12 months in my state. Anyone with zero health care experience and a degree in underwater basket weaving can become an RN BSN in 12 months.

Accelerated Online Bachelor's to BSN â€" College of Nursing

I take your point though and it's a good one. The universities who offer the 12 month BSN in my state are real universities and their 12 month BSN programs are good ones. Not anything like the for profit diploma mills you are talking about.

I actually went from zero college credit to ADN RN in 9 months including a month off for the holidays. I m a special case though and went to a legitimate NLN accredited community college nursing program.

I agree with you and would LOVE to get rid of these for profit, hugely expensive diploma mills, including the ones that grant bachelors degrees.

I'm curious. Are the quickie BSN programs you are talking about taking people right out of high school and giving them BSN's in 12 months with no pre-req's? Or are they programs for people who already have college degrees (or something similar) in other fields? I've never heard of a reputable school offering a BSN that short unless the students come in with significant education to start with.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I'm curious. Are the quickie BSN programs you are talking about taking people right out of high school and giving them BSN's in 12 months with no pre-req's? Or are they programs for people who already have college degrees (or something similar) in other fields? I've never heard of a reputable school offering a BSN that short unless the students come in with significant education to start with.

there are strict qualifications and prerequisites...Admission Requirements — College of Nursing

Up Vote Up Vote ×

In response to BostonFNP:

"That is not the "theory" at all, and it shows how little you truly understand the issue at hand."

It's exactly the issue. They're trying to sell nurses, hospital management and the general public the false idea that the more education nurses have (are willing to pay for) above that of an ADN or associates degree, better patient outcomes result.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
In response to BostonFNP:

"That is not the "theory" at all, and it shows how little you truly understand the issue at hand."

It's exactly the issue. They're trying to sell nurses, hospital management and the general public the false idea that the more education nurses have (are willing to pay for) above that of an ADN or associates degree, better patient outcomes result.

A nurse A with a doctorate is not (necessarily) better than the nurse B next to him with an ADN. Nurse B with an ADN is a better nurse B with a doctorate. That is the "theory".

You can keep slinging that it is a "false" idea but you have yet to provide any evidence at all to support it.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

I am a diploma nurse (x 30 yrs) and think that the ADN program will give you the best education ie; more clinical time than a BSN program but less opportunities. If you decide that you want to go into management or teaching then a BSN would be the better option. Unfortunately, the way healthcare is going, you would probably fare better with a BSN. Good luck to you!

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Scenario: When nurse A with a BSN and nurse B with a ADN get hired, will there be a difference in

starting pay as well as annual raises?

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion