ADN's being pushed out

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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I work for a large Magnet hospital. As nursing becomes more popular, and nurses not in short supply, I have noticed something ominous has being going on lately. Several of our older and very seasoned ADN nurses are being fired. The excuses for firing are ridiculous. I have sadly seen some excellent nurses lose their jobs. I am wondering if they want to get rid of the ADNs so they can look "better" with an all BSN staff. Or perhaps they want rid of older nurses who have been there longer because they are higher on the pay scale. Either way, it is very scarey. I myself am BSN, and i am not ashamed to say that what I know does not hold a candle to these fired nurses. Any thoughts?

Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.

Just from the perspective there is a scope of practice difference between LPN and RN. It's not just about degrees.

^I can understand that, especially in many states that have a narrower scope of practice.

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The issue with LPNs is different from ADNs though.

Its not the exact same thing, but it is similar, so I brought it up.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.

Its not the exact same thing, but it is similar, so I brought it up.

That was my train as thought as well. I understand the PP's point, but I'm more in the side of nurses who have attained knowledge and skill that are risked being pushed out, regardless of LPN, or ADN.

Still doesn't make it right.

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Just from the perspective there is a scope of practice difference between LPN and RN. It's not just about degrees.

Except that in long term care, at least where I worked (I know places are set up differently) the LPNs and RNs did do the same work besides hanging IVs. And you don't need a whole staff of RNs just because a few residents have IVs. My DON, (which I thought this was completely unprofessional and even somewhat slander-ish) said they were ridding the LPNs because they ( all LPNs) were immature. All I could think was.....wow. We had maturity issues, but get rid of THEM, not everyone.

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Not picking on anyone. Many hospitals in my area are under budget constraints so they want to hire nurses who can hit the ground running. Especially for units such as trauma, ICU they currently don't have the resources ( so they say) to provide long orientations. So it is more logical to hire those who have the necessary experience.

As I have said many times before; I am in no way against any nurse wanting to further their education for whatever reason they may have. What I am against is elitists sitting in academic ivory towers trying to manipulate the general masses with pseudo-science in order to scheme nurses into running back to school. When enrollment numbers go up, it means increased funding for those programs and bonuses for those who help run them. It anyone is going to say that higher education is not a business, they're either living in a fantasy world or flat-out lying. Furthering one's education has to be a personal choice and not forced upon nurses via a scheme by those who haven't treated a patient since Bill and Monica had their little romp in the White House. And for the BSN in Ten nonsense; nurses in NY and NJ are already planning for class action lawsuits should any governing body try to make their earned licenses void.

As far as elevating the profession and giving it more respect: If any nurse feels they need more initials after their name in order to command respect then they have far deeper problems that all the initials in the world won't help with. A major reason why nurses may not get the respect they deserve is that doctors and other healthcare staff see the cattiness and school-girl antics that takes place on the floor with nurses. With the cliques and the who likes who, and who doesn't like who, and who's trying to get who fired, how the heck do you expect other healthcare professionals to respect nurses. And this goes on with nurses of all educational levels, including DNPs.

Respect is earned, and not obtained by spending $25,000 and writing a few more papers in APA format on nursing theory and current nursing issues.

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Specializes in Critical Care.

I agree with avengingspirit1 school should be a choice not mandatory! It costs too much and many of us have other priorities family, home and retirement. If the hospitals want everyone to have a BSN than they should be willing to pay for it, the full cost, not a token amount! Student loans are the worst debt out there! I don't want to spend my retirement paying off student loans!

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
I agree with avengingspirit1 school should be a choice not mandatory! It costs too much and many of us have other priorities family home and retirement. If the hospitals want everyone to have a BSN than they should be willing to pay for it, the full cost, not a token amount! Student loans are the worst debt out there! I don't want to spend my retirement paying off student loans![/quote']

Right. A choice. Try to apply to CEO positions with an associates degree and then demand that they should pay for your MBA. There is currently a neurosurgeon job open at a major hospital here? Apply and then demand they pay for your med school! These positions require advanced schooling because they have tremendous responsibility. Can you name another profession with more direct responsibility for human lives that has anything less than a masters?

I am sorry that people are unwilling to make sacrifices to be the best nurse they can be. It's embarrassing to explain to patients why nursing has so many levels of entry because it basically boils down to two reasons: convenience of the nurse or nursing as a task-based profession. Neither are best for the patient.

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Specializes in Critical Care.

What's with sacrificing ourselves for a job! We are not martyrs, at least I'm not! Frankly as a floor nurse a certification would be more relevant than a BSN and a hell of a lot cheaper! So since you're an NP do you have your DNP and if not are you going to make that sacrifice financially? Since it sounds similar to the ADN, BSN debate! Going back to school is a choice and for many a luxury, many people cannot afford it and it could end with disastrous results if you default on your student loans. I wouldn't advise anyone to take out student loans they are like russian roullette and I'm not into gambling with my future. Not everyone has the money or home equity to go back to school. We have bills, mortgages, children to raise and educate and retirement. The ADN RN has the exact same nursing license as the BSN and do the exact same job! Going back to school is a choice and a luxury! I would get much more peace of mind putting money into my retirement account than getting a BSN after my name. I've never had a patient or doctor or anyone ask me if I had a BSN! I'm not embarrassed to be an ADN RN. I chose the quicker and cheaper route that was right for me!

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
What's with sacrificing ourselves for a job! We are not martyrs at least I'm not! Frankly as a floor nurse a certification would be more relevant than a BSN and a hell of a lot cheaper! So since you're an NP do you have your DNP and if not are you going to make that sacrifice financially? Since it sounds similar to the ADN, BSN debate! Going back to school is a choice and for many a luxury, many people cannot afford it and it could end with disastrous results if you default on your student loans. I wouldn't advise anyone to take out student loans they are like russian roullette and I'm not into gambling with my future. Not everyone has the money or home equity to go back to school. We have bills, mortgages, children to raise and educate and retirement. The ADN RN has the exact same nursing license as the BSN and do the exact same job! Going back to school is a choice and a luxury! I would get much more peace of mind putting money into my retirement account than getting a BSN after my name.[/quote']

Halfway through my DNP, would be done but I actually had a hard time deciding between DNP vs PhD. I have a baby at home and a new mortgage. I precept students to cove the cost of school, and I sty up an extra hour or two at night to fit it into the day.

Go back to school because it makes you a better provider, it's not just a luxury. For you it's an expense. For a patient it could mean the difference between outcomes. If you were picking a provider would you pick the one that invested in their education or just viewed it as a job they wanted the quick and easy way into?

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Specializes in critical care, ER,ICU, CVSURG, CCU.
Halfway through my DNP, would be done but I actually had a hard time deciding between DNP vs PhD. I have a baby at home and a new mortgage. I precept students to cove the cost of school, and I sty up an extra hour or two at night to fit it into the day.

Go back to school because it makes you a better provider, it's not just a luxury. For you it's an expense. For a patient it could mean the difference between outcomes. If you were picking a provider would you pick the one that invested in their education or just viewed it as a job they wanted the quick and easy way into?

actually i would want the provider that knew exactly what to do and can do, not the one requiring an extensive externship :

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Specializes in Adult Health.

Nursing is the only profession which does not require a Bachelors for entry level. We still call ASN and diploma nurses professionals. Requiring the BSN would bring entry level nursing up to the level of other entry level professionals.

BSNs should not be required for nurses who are already licensed and practicing or required for those nurses already in school. Schools should continue to offer diploma programs and ASN programs. I do, however, support the proposed requirement that going forward ASN or diploma nurses be required to earn a BSN within a certain amount of time after passing the boards. Some proposals say 2 years, some say 5 years, some say 10 years. 5 years would be my preference as middle ground between 2 years, which is too soon for some people and their pocketbooks and 10 years, which keeps nurses out of formal education for a long time and makes it harder to go back, especially for those nurses who didn't like school to begin with or found it hard to write papers, take tests, etc. BSN educated nurses are taught to function in a wider range of settings than diploma and ASN prepared nurses. They are also taught more critical thinking, including how to read research and implement appropriate changes in caring for patients, managing staff, etc. Diploma and ASN nursing programs do not teach to that level. In an increasingly complicated health system, with multiple treatment options and ethical issues, diploma and ASN educated nurses fall short in these areas.

For the record, I got my RN license after an ASN program then went back for the BSN. Now I have an MSN and am working on my DNP. I didn't choose to go back to school because I love school (although it's not exactly like I was being tortured by going back). I chose to go back because I think it's important that RNs be educated and have critical thinking skills and are apply to take care of patients in a variety of settings. I also believe that nursing as a profession needs to standardize entry level practice requirements in such a way as to meet or exceed expectations of other professions.

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Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.

Decided further discussion would serve no purpose at this time.

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