ADN vs BSN Battle

subee, MSN, CRNA · Jun 9, 2015

I believe it is an evidence based practice decision to prefer BSN's as statistics appear to indicate better outcomes with BSN's- one of the benefits(?) of everything in a database is data is accumulated and interpreted about everything. Most hospitals in my area will hire ADNs with a contract requiring a BSN within a time frame, some pay tuition some don't. And as nursing , medicine, NP's, PA's, paramedics, Techs,CNA's etc try to continually define their roles as health care changes and reforms, I have heard the term Professional Nurse start to be bandied about, with that being a bachelors prepared RN. I used to work somewhere where there were steps of RN (and of course each higher step paid more) and to move up the first rung was BSN. Many people don't realize there are still many diploma programs around also.
What will keep ADNs around for a long time is RN education (for that matter ALL education) is a business and no school is going to just allow their programs (with years of waiting lists) to simply disappear. In my state the RN programs are the most sought after in the community college system and those students (taxpayers and voters) aren't going to simply shut those programs down.

Why wouldn't taxpayers and voters close down community college nursing programs (if there is no demand for their grads in the community)? CC's COST taxpayers money. I don't think any voter cares about the arcane debates going on in the nursing world.

BuckyBadgerRN, ASN, RN · Jun 9, 2015

:roflmao: a million times!!!

I think there as many threads on this topic as there are for the PVT. By the way, does the PVT work the same for people getting their ADN as it does for people getting BSN:p

42pines · Jun 9, 2015

One cannot really say that the BSN or any other degree is a waste of time. There are those who obtain degrees of various sort and still don't have a clue, and there are some ADN nurses that can run circles around some BSN nurses.

As I look back on nursing school, having earlier taken two Bachelor of Science degrees so now I could compare, the ADN was about 3/4 the work of the BS degrees. In other words, they now stuff 3 years of work into a 2 year degree. This is why many struggle.

This will not change due to the (supposed/inevitable/could be/might be/imminent?) nursing shortage.

I still advocate LNA > RN (ADN) > BSN rather than a simple BSN. My recommended path serves a few functions. The LNA experience gives the student "hands," which is invaluable when starting the ADN program. The ADN gives the student a job (though this is getting difficult in certain areas) even if it's not hospital based. That job (if you're wise enough to choose) gives you educational benefits to assist you in a ADN to BSN.

I have no trouble with those who want to go straight BSN but I think the other route is easier, more tranquil and kinder to your wallet.

ixchel · Jun 9, 2015

Proud idiot here! (WOOT! WOOT!)

When I'm not wasting all of my time rolling around in my buckets of money, I'm off enjoying the critical care position I landed way before graduation.

I feel kinda bad for my "2-year degree" RN coworkers because after spending 3 years earning that degree, they'll have to spend another 2-3 years doing gen eds and BSN classes because management is pressuring them to advance their degrees. 5-6 total years on something that took me 4.

I've always had NP in my brain as my final goal, so BSN was ultimately necessary, but even if I didn't plan to go back to school, I still would have chosen BSN. That's just what I wanted. It's silly to sit here and defend or justify that choice. I wanted a bachelors degree, so I got a bachelors degree. It turned out to be the more practical choice in the end, but in the beginning, no, that wasn't my initial thought on the subject.

I'm not some 19 year old without obligations, either. I'm a grown up with responsibilities and BSN was still a priority to me. Wanting a higher level of education does NOT make me an idiot with nothing but time and money to waste. It makes me a person who feels education is a priority. I wanted specific things out of my education. I didn't want nursing to be my only focus in school. I WANTED to learn more.

And here is the kicker!

Just because I felt BSN was the best choice when I researched my options....

Just because I feel pride in my degree and accomplishments....

Loving my degree, and supporting those who choose the same path, takes nothing from, nor offers insult, toward those who choose differently.

I'm getting pretty fed up with the degree wars. I'm also getting fed up with the idea that calling a BSN an idiot for wasting time and money is somehow okay, while its totally not okay to say anything remotely like that about the ADN.

How about we all step back and recognize we all have choices to make, and we choose the best thing we can when our options are presented?

Mr. Murse · Jun 9, 2015

The only advantage I see to having a BSN is in parts of the country where it's valued more, or if you want certain more advanced degrees.

I say this because frankly, there is absolutely ZERO difference on the floor between BSN and ASN degree nurses. I would dare even say most of the nurses I would consider better nurses turn out to be ASN nurses. In fact, a significant portion of our management only has their ASN.

Either way, if you were objectively look at nurses in hospitals and try to pick out who was ASN and who was BSN.......you could not. The bachelors does not make you a better or more competent nurse. period.

Bob Loblaw · Jun 9, 2015

Because CC's offer great access and affordable costs.Are the CC SON's simply going to say- it was good while it lasted...Taxpayers probably don't care about the world of nursing but they do care when their kids and communities loose access to a great career.

nurseprnRN, BSN, RN · Jun 9, 2015

In other words, they now stuff 3 years of work into a 2 year degree. This is why many struggle.

Unlike the associate's degree in English, the nursing ADN really IS a 3+-year degree, once you look at prerequisites before you begin the actual nursing program. People struggle because science is hard and some folks still think nursing school should be easy because, gee, nurses don't have to know much cuz they just follow orders. It's a shock to discover otherwise. I am not sure the ADN route really is more tranquil or reliably easier on the wallet, especially when you figure most of them are going to be going the BSN route anyway.

brandy1017, ASN, RN · Jun 9, 2015

In a way we are lucky to be able to work as a nurse with only an ADN because it is one of the few decent paying jobs out there and the majority of similar paying jobs require a BA/BS or higher. That said times are changing with magnet status, a bad economy, a glut of nurses pushing more employers to requiring a BSN so if you are young or a new nurse and can afford it a BSN is the way to go eventually, just look for ways to keep costs down, take advantage of tuition reimbursement and be careful with student loans.

Remember also many of us with ADN's already either have a BA in another field or at least have attended a four year college, so most of us have more than a plain 2 year degree. If money were no object I would get a bachelors, but truth be told I would prefer to get it in something more interesting and enjoyable like history or international relations, rather than just nursing. I'm just not interested in nursing theory or management. Regardless I'm not planning on going back to school, instead I'm saving for retirement, paying off my mortgage and car. If I wanted when I'm older I can always audit classes for free from my state university.

brandy1017, ASN, RN · Jun 9, 2015

Well I will be going for my BSN so I may be slightly biased lol. On this site I actually see more of BSN bashing than ADN. It seems as if it's okay for ppl to say things such as "BSN's are a waste of money", "We're all nurses in the end", "The ADN programs in my area are better anyway", etc., but if I were to say that "BSN programs are better because in the end you end up with a higher degree" then I'm bashing. While I do agree that it is wrong to bash anyone based on a degree, let's not ignore the obvious benefits that come along with getting a BSN, such as salary increases. With that being said, if you can pass the NCLEX you get a big thumbs up from me!

But sadly most places don't pay any more for having a BSN. The VA is the only place I know that pays substantially more for a BSN. I agree that a person should be paid more for a BSN, but it usually isn't the case in the real world.

brandy1017, ASN, RN · Jun 10, 2015

I agree. I chose to get a BSN because I knew that I wanted to get an advanced degree and that would be the most direct route for me. Also, I went to a state university and went back to that same university for my Master's. Both programs tuition was paid in full by the university. So it just goes to what works best for you.

That is a valid reason to go for a BSN, especially when many places have a 5 year rule on sciences and I for one would not want to spend the time or especially the money retaking sciences. My one regret is not going for NP as what I like the most about nursing is using my brains and that would dovetail the most, but my ADN makes that difficult to do in both time and money, especially since it's been over 20 years since I graduated and I have no desire to retake all the sciences again. I'm 50 now and by the time I was done with school, I'd be so close to retirement it wouldn't be worth it, plus I would have saddled myself with student loan debt leaving me either working into my 70's assuming my health permitted or ending up poorer in the end.

ixchel · Jun 10, 2015

I am not sure the ADN route really is more tranquil or reliably easier on the wallet, especially when you figure most of them are going to be going the BSN route anyway.

Agreed. You can also make efforts to lower costs, like taking gen eds at a CC and transferring them, renting textbooks, etc. Had I not needed to receive extra in grants/scholarships to help with household bills, I would have gotten through school without paying a single penny. As it is, I only took out a loan for one year. My first two years were at the CC, so I had a kick back just from grants. Third year, I only had grants offered. Had to get a loan. Fourth year, I landed a full scholarship, so I was good to go!

For those going into nursing as a second career, it is a little more complicated when they've already earned a bachelor's or higher. They may need to turn to loans since government grants have limits. An accelerated second degree program would be great because of the shorter program. The difference between the ADN and aBSN here are so minute financially. You also only have 3 traditional semesters as opposed to two years, year-round. I think it's crazy to not do the aBSN. I actually have a friend doing the ADN and it takes every ounce of energy to not say something. She's already enrolled, so no point now.

brandy1017, ASN, RN · Jun 10, 2015

I am a widow and I needed to find the fastest cheapest way to a paycheck so that was the ADN program. I also picked a program that was rated very high in preparing nurses for the actual floor. It is more difficult to find a job but I found a small hospital that gave me a chance as a contingent (the Director of Nursing was a clinical instructor at our school). Six months later when the little hospital was having a hard time giving me enough hours to live on, I applied and was hired at the big magnet hospital that I was told I'd not be able to get a job at without my BSN. It may have helped that I already had a BS in Bioengineering from my younger days. Either way, time are changing that those of us with ADN are going to have to accept that we need to get the BSN at some time if we want to advance. I can do it at my own pace now while still having the bills paid. If I was 20 years old and single, I'd have gone for my BSN from the start.
It is funny. I had to work harder for the ADN at a community college than I did for my BS in engineering at a major state university. We did BS level work in the nursing area, we just didn't do all the extra classes like statistics and history. Since I did all those getting my first degree, I am just looking at a few online classes in that appear to be primarily paper writing classes and patient population classes. I do find it frustrating that the one year online RN-BSN will cost 3 times what I paid to get the entire 3 year (1 year of prerequisites) ADN degree...but my hospital will give me some money to advance my degree when I do return. For now, I am just getting settled in my job and trying to spend some time with my kids while they are still at home. School in in my near future though. An ADN isn't going to be enough for much longer....kind of like watching all the LPNs in my area working as Nurse Techs or Nurses Aids. It isn't even worth arguing about ... it is going to happen and those of us with ADNs better have a plan in place.

I understand your reasoning, but ADN's are still RN's, whereas LPN's were not. So it is not the same thing.