Hi all! So I am relatively a new graduate (3 months prior experience) before landing a job at a SNF. I have only been there for a week and although I was told during the interview that I would be working nights, my manager wanted me on the 3-11 shift to learn admissions for a month. I've been working with this RN for about 2 days now and shes really nice. We talk about out personal lives and etc. (For example she had a daughter by someone who is the same ethnic background as me..etc). So I'm explain my experience from my last job at a large teaching hospital and simply mention that I am taking a pay cut but its worth it because I want the experience. She then asks "Oh what are they starting you at." I stupidly tell her my wage (37) and didn't think anything of it. I explain that I usually leave the part on the application where it says to put your desired wage blank but this time around I put a high wage (I was getting paid 5 dollars more at my last job than this one.) She then says oh wow your very lucky and that they didnt start her at that wage and she put 38 on her application but management told her that they couldn't afford to pay her that. Anyways she says I'm lucky and we leave it at that.
My next day, I notice that she is acting a bit different but didn't think anything of it...it is a stressful job however. I do notice however that we dont seem to see eachother at all and that she didn't teach the the computer system (the most important part) but is teaching the other new hire the computer system. When I sit down to observe so I can learn the phone rings. She quickly looks at me and says "Can you answer the phone in a dismissive tone." Again, didn't think anything of it.
When night shift comes on, one of the night nurses says its her last day. No body knows why it seems very VERY abrupt because nobody talked about it before. I see her and this other nurse(my preceptor I suppose) kind of talking privately. This nurse that resigned was a nice girl and I ask "Oh where are you going?" All she says is "Somewhere." which again I thought was a bit odd.
The next day my manager comes up to me and asks me to meet him in his office. By his tone I can tell something was wrong but have no idea. He asks me if I told anyone my wage and I said yes to my preceptor. He then informs me that 1 nurse (the night nurse) quit because of it and that 2 more are considering quitting. I explain that it was naive and I didn't know i confided in her. He tells me she is not your friend, she went and told everyone and that she is already treating you differently. He then says next shift you will be on nights, I need to get you away from them. EVERYTHING now makes sense to me.
Sorry for the long post but what should I do or is there anything that I can do to rectify this situation. Should I confront/talk to this nurse who went and talked about me to everyone? I do not know how much the other nurses are making and had NO IDEA I was even making more than them. IDK if its because I have my BSN or bc they knew I wouldn't have accepted a job or a wage any lower when I was making $5 more at my last job. I feel HORRIBLY about this especially because our SNF is already so short-staffed.
Taking that a step further, do you feel that one should be obligated to tell one's salary to any nurse who asks? In the interest of keeping employers transparent?
No but I'd hope everyone would think about the reasons they aren't willing to discuss it and consider it. In my experience it has made a major difference in my own income as well as the income of people I have shared my salary with over the years.
What I don't think many consider is that it doesn't cost me a dime to tell what I make and in fact it helps me keep a foothold on my good rates if others aren't ignorantly coming behind me undercutting my wages by accepting embarrassingly low offers. Why would my employer want to pay me $100 an hour if there is a twit willing to work for $60?
Yes, you will find it best to keep your true feelings sometimes to yourself. Some of us have our thoughts written all over our faces, so it may be challenging. You don't owe co-workers a thing, except politeness, and ability to perform as a team. Personal info? No. Let them speculate. People find enough to talk about without adding additional fuel. Long ago, I heard a nurse tell another co-worker, "Sorry, I don't discuss that." It stuck with me.
Excellent information and I admire that you are an organized business woman! Kudos. It is probably one of my biggest pet peeves about nursing in general is that we tend to whine and tolerate horrible conditions while in some perverse way feeling like a martyr.
The only things I'd ask you to consider in your strategy is that while HR is an excellent resource theyare the employer so I wonder about their willingness to be transparent and the GlassDoor etc. resource while a decent overall guideline falls way short when it comes to intricate specialty, facility and geographic alterations in a metro area. In my experience "XYZ hospital pays $ABC" coming from a respected peer is way more reliable than a more generic website search.
Not saying we need to discuss this with every Tom, Dick and Sally just consider being open and networking with trusted peers because it can make a positive difference in your opportunities and income. Although it can feel uncomfortable initially, like negotiating wages it becomes more comfortable with practice. Trust me, been there, done that so just something to think about. Best to you!
Great observations!! I don't disagree with you. We just have to arm ourselves with everything that we can in order to get the best that we can. If one must share salary information, they just need to be very careful about who and where they share that information. Work relationships on jobs can be tricky at times...especially when you become their boss lol. :)
You guys, I'm 2 seconds away from quitting. I truly don't know if it is worth it anymore, just to think that I was going to post here yesterday saying that my job is not that bad, and that it is only the one particular lady who I told my wage that is giving me a really hard time (which it is). Today was so horrible, that I left crying (not in the facility of course).
So I come in tonight and notice that I am the 3rd RN on the schedule (there is suppose to be no more than 2 on nights.) My name is on the master schedule that my manager gave me a copy of as we have a 4 days on/2 off schedule, but not on the sign in sheet for tonight. Anyways I come to the front and they 2 day RNs are giving report. I walk in and my "former preceptor" (Mind you I will just call her preceptor so you guys know who I am talking about but she made it clear that she never had any obligation to precept me. We're not formally assigned "preceptors" perse but your coworker is suppose to teach you the hang of things.) Anyways upon me walking in she immediately stares me down and says "Oh your here today." I reply yes and say that today is my 4th day. We kind of all look at eachother as we know that there aren't suppose to be 3 on shift. Me and the other newer RN began discussing it and right when I speak she immediately says "Can we stop talking and finish giving report, we can discuss that later" pretty rudely. Mind you she was the one who brought it up when it wasn't her problem.
After report, an lvn comes up to be and asks me to count medications with her because the other lvn is coming in late and she needs to quickly leave to pick up a family member. I say of course and go off to count it with her and take the keys to endorse it to the other lvn and she's thankful. When I come back I already see my preceptor on the phone with my manager who and shes saying Amanda is not on the sign in sheet but she "says" she is on the schedule, she then asks to see the schedule while she his talking to him. I'm trying to explain to her but after a while I say can I just speak to him? She looks at me in a very demeaning way and says you know what why don't you use the facility phone to call him (Again it's quite clear that she is purposely being extra rude as she should have never even called him discussing "my" issues in the first place.) She then quickly dials his number on the facility phone says something quickly then hands me the phone.
(A bit of back story, yesterday I come into my manger's office trying to request a particular day off. I ask if there is any possible way to get more than 2 days off and he says No, it's always 4 on and 2 off. I explain that according to my schedule they'll be 3 RN's on that day so if I can have it off. He says the other RN who requested the day off the same day as I did has priority bc its her retirement party (My reason is bc I was suppose to go out of town to visit my family). I say okay, if it's not possible thats fine. Then he says your off tomorrow which is odd because it's only my 3rd day on (which means I'm suppose to be working 1 more day before I have off.) Anyways, he quickly prints me a new schedule-this was this morning..I took the schedule went home and went to sleep (Mind you I already have my 4/2 schedule in my head to I know that tonight is my last night).
Me and my manager got into a bit of an argument. He says that I am not on the new schedule he printed me yesterday and that "He told me to go by that." I explain to him that today is my 4th day...and this even shows on the schedule ive had for a month not just the one you quickly gave me this morning! I also explain that this new schedule you just gave me says I worked a certain day that I actually did NOT work bc I was off that day, which threw off the whole 4/2 schedule that he said I had to abide by. Not sure why or how but he keeps maintaining that you need to go by the schedule I just gave you. At this time I know my preceptor is snickering in the background, also the newer RN desperately wanted to go home. She kept saying I am going to go home bc there are only suppose to be 2 RN's so I'll go home. But my manager says that this new schedule says that I am off today (which would put me at only 3 days on) so I am suppose to go home. I am very straight-forward and tell him if you want me to go home tonight I will, but I will NOT come in the day after tomorrow. I've already planned to go out of town for my 2 days off (hotel booked and everything) and this was planned for at least a week as I've had this schedule since I started. My manager is frustrated but says that's fine (don't think he wanted to though).
Anyways many of my coworkers are saying it is not fair to me. To make matters worse, when I come out I see my preceptor, the LVN who I did a favor for because she said she had to quickly go home to pick up a family member (so much for needing to leave right away), and 2 other coworkers talking. They are clearly talking about me because when I went to my car (used my automatic car opener) I hear her say "There she goes right there." I hear them laughing as well.
I was so upset and distraught by what happened that I started crying in my car. I made sure my fellow "coworkers" didn't see me though. I am at a loss for how someone can be so mean when I never did anything personally to her.
BTW I am really sorry that this post is SO horribly long! Just wanted to really express myself and see if you guys thought I had a reason to be so upset. I had to fight everything in me not to confront her and tell her to knock it off about this wage thing, and the schedule issue really upset me as well.
BTW go to the bay area. Here's the scoop, my dad is an LVN and my mom is an RN. My mom switched jobs and now my dad as an lvn gets paid more than my mom as an rn. $35 is what my dad makes now but he has around 5-7 years exp.
And, you are in WHAT state? I might consider moving, if I won't freeze to death 9 out of 12 months. Here in Florida, it's good pay to start an LPN at $18 and a new RN at $22 in an SNF. Hospitals are a different story, of course, but I can understand why they quit. Especially if they are RNs working under $25.
You guys, I'm 2 seconds away from quitting. I truly don't know if it is worth it anymore, just to think that I was going to post here yesterday saying that my job is not that bad, and that it is only the one particular lady who I told my wage that is giving me a really hard time (which it is). Today was so horrible, that I left crying (not in the facility of course).
So I come in tonight and notice that I am the 3rd RN on the schedule (there is suppose to be no more than 2 on nights.) My name is on the master schedule that my manager gave me a copy of as we have a 4 days on/2 off schedule, but not on the sign in sheet for tonight. Anyways I come to the front and they 2 day RNs are giving report. I walk in and my "former preceptor" (Mind you I will just call her preceptor so you guys know who I am talking about but she made it clear that she never had any obligation to precept me. We're not formally assigned "preceptors" perse but your coworker is suppose to teach you the hang of things.) Anyways upon me walking in she immediately stares me down and says "Oh your here today." I reply yes and say that today is my 4th day. We kind of all look at eachother as we know that there aren't suppose to be 3 on shift. Me and the other newer RN began discussing it and right when I speak she immediately says "Can we stop talking and finish giving report, we can discuss that later" pretty rudely. Mind you she was the one who brought it up when it wasn't her problem.
After report, an lvn comes up to be and asks me to count medications with her because the other lvn is coming in late and she needs to quickly leave to pick up a family member. I say of course and go off to count it with her and take the keys to endorse it to the other lvn and she's thankful. When I come back I already see my preceptor on the phone with my manager who and shes saying Amanda is not on the sign in sheet but she "says" she is on the schedule, she then asks to see the schedule while she his talking to him. I'm trying to explain to her but after a while I say can I just speak to him? She looks at me in a very demeaning way and says you know what why don't you use the facility phone to call him (Again it's quite clear that she is purposely being extra rude as she should have never even called him discussing "my" issues in the first place.) She then quickly dials his number on the facility phone says something quickly then hands me the phone.
(A bit of back story, yesterday I come into my manger's office trying to request a particular day off. I ask if there is any possible way to get more than 2 days off and he says No, it's always 4 on and 2 off. I explain that according to my schedule they'll be 3 RN's on that day so if I can have it off. He says the other RN who requested the day off the same day as I did has priority bc its her retirement party (My reason is bc I was suppose to go out of town to visit my family). I say okay, if it's not possible thats fine. Then he says your off tomorrow which is odd because it's only my 3rd day on (which means I'm suppose to be working 1 more day before I have off.) Anyways, he quickly prints me a new schedule-this was this morning..I took the schedule went home and went to sleep (Mind you I already have my 4/2 schedule in my head to I know that tonight is my last night).
Me and my manager got into a bit of an argument. He says that I am not on the new schedule he printed me yesterday and that "He told me to go by that." I explain to him that today is my 4th day...and this even shows on the schedule ive had for a month not just the one you quickly gave me this morning! I also explain that this new schedule you just gave me says I worked a certain day that I actually did NOT work bc I was off that day, which threw off the whole 4/2 schedule that he said I had to abide by. Not sure why or how but he keeps maintaining that you need to go by the schedule I just gave you. At this time I know my preceptor is snickering in the background, also the newer RN desperately wanted to go home. She kept saying I am going to go home bc there are only suppose to be 2 RN's so I'll go home. But my manager says that this new schedule says that I am off today (which would put me at only 3 days on) so I am suppose to go home. I am very straight-forward and tell him if you want me to go home tonight I will, but I will NOT come in the day after tomorrow. I've already planned to go out of town for my 2 days off (hotel booked and everything) and this was planned for at least a week as I've had this schedule since I started. My manager is frustrated but says that's fine (don't think he wanted to though).
Anyways many of my coworkers are saying it is not fair to me. To make matters worse, when I come out I see my preceptor, the LVN who I did a favor for because she said she had to quickly go home to pick up a family member (so much for needing to leave right away), and 2 other coworkers talking. They are clearly talking about me because when I went to my car (used my automatic car opener) I hear her say "There she goes right there." I hear them laughing as well.
I was so upset and distraught by what happened that I started crying in my car. I made sure my fellow "coworkers" didn't see me though. I am at a loss for how someone can be so mean when I never did anything personally to her.
BTW I am really sorry that this post is SO horribly long! Just wanted to really express myself and see if you guys thought I had a reason to be so upset. I had to fight everything in me not to confront her and tell her to knock it off about this wage thing, and the schedule issue really upset me as well.
At this point I can't tell if its just a horrible place to work or you are being overly sensitive especially after the initial discord although probably a combination. FWIW asking for schedule changes no matter what your standing in the first week is probably not a great idea. My advice would be work on growing thicker skin as nursing is going to be very difficult going forward if every interaction turns into a personal snub.
You guys, I'm 2 seconds away from quitting. I truly don't know if it is worth it anymore, just to think that I was going to post here yesterday saying that my job is not that bad, and that it is only the one particular lady who I told my wage that is giving me a really hard time (which it is). Today was so horrible, that I left crying (not in the facility of course).....
I have worked in many places like this over the years. It is fairly typical. When you are new, it is not often "fair". You may (your choice) have to toughen up at bit- or else you may find yourself job hopping. Also, I think you are sort of lucky that person you took the keys for came back. Sometimes things "happen" and the person doesn't come back and you are sometimes stuck with their keys and/or the meds. When I worked in SNF, I tried not to take the keys when it was not my assignment. Just be cautious is all I am saying.
Perhaps I am being to sensitive. I was asking for a date off in advance and I was prepared to take a no as I knew it may have not been possible. I was absolutely fine with that. Just fyi the person he did give the off date to is a new RN that was hired AFTER me. She's literally only been there a week, but again no problem.
Also the keys that I took were not the RN keys but the LVN's keys, I could have just given them to another LVN as she was going to give them to the LVN in the station closest to her in the first place. The lvn who's keys I took did not come back as she supposedly needed to leave right after her shift, I gave it to it to the other RN working to endorse to the new lvn.
I understand what you are saying but also there was no way I could be stuck with the keys/meds because there were 2 other RN's working this night. I was told to go home because I was not on the "new schedule that he just printed out this morning.", even though today was my 4th day on. The schedule was abruptly changed on me and I didn't even know. If I hadn't come into the office asking for a day off I wouldn't have even been printed out another schedule. This would put me at 3 on 2 off. Also this schedule says that 4 days ago I worked when I was off that day. I thought perhaps he made a mistake with the schedule im not sure if he purposely deviated from the 4/2 schedule that he said we all have to go by.
I will tough it out, I will be getting 3 days off this week. I am going to go talk to the manager today but at this point I do think this other RN wants to get me out. I won't let it get to me! Thanks for listening to my venting.
Congratulations on your job offer!! Great opportunity! Resign from the SNF with a smile and don't feel guilty about leaving your current job after only being there a short time. They will find a nurse to fill your position.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
You guys, I'm 2 seconds away from quitting. I truly don't know if it is worth it anymore, just to think that I was going to post here yesterday saying that my job is not that bad, and that it is only the one particular lady who I told my wage that is giving me a really hard time (which it is). Today was so horrible, that I left crying (not in the facility of course).
So I come in tonight and notice that I am the 3rd RN on the schedule (there is suppose to be no more than 2 on nights.) My name is on the master schedule that my manager gave me a copy of as we have a 4 days on/2 off schedule, but not on the sign in sheet for tonight. Anyways I come to the front and they 2 day RNs are giving report. I walk in and my "former preceptor" (Mind you I will just call her preceptor so you guys know who I am talking about but she made it clear that she never had any obligation to precept me. We're not formally assigned "preceptors" perse but your coworker is suppose to teach you the hang of things.) Anyways upon me walking in she immediately stares me down and says "Oh your here today." I reply yes and say that today is my 4th day. We kind of all look at eachother as we know that there aren't suppose to be 3 on shift. Me and the other newer RN began discussing it and right when I speak she immediately says "Can we stop talking and finish giving report, we can discuss that later" pretty rudely. Mind you she was the one who brought it up when it wasn't her problem.
After report, an lvn comes up to be and asks me to count medications with her because the other lvn is coming in late and she needs to quickly leave to pick up a family member. I say of course and go off to count it with her and take the keys to endorse it to the other lvn and she's thankful. When I come back I already see my preceptor on the phone with my manager who and shes saying Amanda is not on the sign in sheet but she "says" she is on the schedule, she then asks to see the schedule while she his talking to him. I'm trying to explain to her but after a while I say can I just speak to him? She looks at me in a very demeaning way and says you know what why don't you use the facility phone to call him (Again it's quite clear that she is purposely being extra rude as she should have never even called him discussing "my" issues in the first place.) She then quickly dials his number on the facility phone says something quickly then hands me the phone.
(A bit of back story, yesterday I come into my manger's office trying to request a particular day off. I ask if there is any possible way to get more than 2 days off and he says No, it's always 4 on and 2 off. I explain that according to my schedule they'll be 3 RN's on that day so if I can have it off. He says the other RN who requested the day off the same day as I did has priority bc its her retirement party (My reason is bc I was suppose to go out of town to visit my family). I say okay, if it's not possible thats fine. Then he says your off tomorrow which is odd because it's only my 3rd day on (which means I'm suppose to be working 1 more day before I have off.) Anyways, he quickly prints me a new schedule-this was this morning..I took the schedule went home and went to sleep (Mind you I already have my 4/2 schedule in my head to I know that tonight is my last night).
Me and my manager got into a bit of an argument. He says that I am not on the new schedule he printed me yesterday and that "He told me to go by that." I explain to him that today is my 4th day...and this even shows on the schedule ive had for a month not just the one you quickly gave me this morning! I also explain that this new schedule you just gave me says I worked a certain day that I actually did NOT work bc I was off that day, which threw off the whole 4/2 schedule that he said I had to abide by. Not sure why or how but he keeps maintaining that you need to go by the schedule I just gave you. At this time I know my preceptor is snickering in the background, also the newer RN desperately wanted to go home. She kept saying I am going to go home bc there are only suppose to be 2 RN's so I'll go home. But my manager says that this new schedule says that I am off today (which would put me at only 3 days on) so I am suppose to go home. I am very straight-forward and tell him if you want me to go home tonight I will, but I will NOT come in the day after tomorrow. I've already planned to go out of town for my 2 days off (hotel booked and everything) and this was planned for at least a week as I've had this schedule since I started. My manager is frustrated but says that's fine (don't think he wanted to though).
Anyways many of my coworkers are saying it is not fair to me. To make matters worse, when I come out I see my preceptor, the LVN who I did a favor for because she said she had to quickly go home to pick up a family member (so much for needing to leave right away), and 2 other coworkers talking. They are clearly talking about me because when I went to my car (used my automatic car opener) I hear her say "There she goes right there." I hear them laughing as well.
I was so upset and distraught by what happened that I started crying in my car. I made sure my fellow "coworkers" didn't see me though. I am at a loss for how someone can be so mean when I never did anything personally to her.
BTW I am really sorry that this post is SO horribly long! Just wanted to really express myself and see if you guys thought I had a reason to be so upset. I had to fight everything in me not to confront her and tell her to knock it off about this wage thing, and the schedule issue really upset me as well.
First, you don't interrupt report to complain about the schedule, discuss staffing issues (unless you're charge and it's up to you to resolve those staffing issues) or gossip. Whoever told you they needed to finish report was absolutely right. It's unfair to both shifts to stop report -- day shift risks losing their train of thought and forgetting something important AND they get off late. Night shift may miss some crucial bit of information and gets a late start on their work. The nurse who you say was rude to you may have expected a quick answer from you when she asked the question and not a whole discussion. Maybe she was being nice to you in asking it and then had to make a pointed comment to get you to stop talking to her so she could finish report.
The nurse who is most senior or who is in charge of the unit has every right and responsibility to call the manager to resolve staffing issues that are in question. It was up to the charge nurse to resolve the staffing issues in the best possible way and if that required consultation with the manager, then that's what you do. If the new nurse has questions AFTER the charge nurse has discussed the situation with the manager and then wishes to hear the manager's decision from the manager, then the new nurse talks to the manager at that point. The new nurse does not interrupt the charge nurse's discussion with the manager unless invited to participate. I suspect that both that nurse AND the manager thought you were being rude to them.
A brand new nurse does not request days off until after orientation unless it is something that has been negotiated before the hire day or it's something that just came up. You want off for your sister's wedding, you negotiate in advance of accepting the position. You want to go visit your family for two days, you wait until after orientation. UNLESS your brother just got injured on his deployment and is being sent home to recover or your grandmother just died or something equally sudden and dire.
You don't get into arguments with your manager and expect to keep your job. Honestly, how could you not know this? He insisted that you go by the schedule he just printed because he wanted you to go by it. Possibly your creation of a hostile work environment required some switching around to accommodate harsh feelings toward you, and he had to suddenly change the schedule to keep you from working with the colleagues you have alienated. Possibly switching you to nights required some rebalancing of the schedule and he now needed you to work the new schedule, which is why he kept insisting that you go by it. Frankly, your plans weren't important to that decision, and you were foolish to dig your heels in because you had already paid for a hotel. Cancel the reservation and get your money back or change it to a different time. I'm surprised you weren't fired on the spot for your back talk to the manager or refusing to come in on a day you were scheduled.
I"m not surprised your coworkers were talking about the scene you made. It would require superhuman strength NOT to talk about a new grad who makes more money than everyone else, spreads that around, and then makes an enormous scene about a schedule change that was in all likelihood necessitated by the negative feelings among established staff who make less than you do and still follow the schedule they're given.
You don't get it. You clearly don't have any idea how to function at a real job. Hopefully, you'll take some of the good advice and follow it. Hopefully, you'll be able to discern the difference between the good advice you've been given and the bad advice. (In this case, I suspect that you'll hate the good advice because it isn't what you want to believe.).
Not to beat a dead horse but I think the OP has gotten a lot of feedback and it seems to be divided into the two camps ("Sharing wage information is empowering for staff and forces employers to be transparent with financial compensation" versus "What you are paid is your personal business and sharing that is only going to lead to trouble"). While I am all in favor of equal pay for equal work, I think that nursing should be like other businesses and that as professionals we should be responsible for negotiating their salary if we expect to receive higher wages. With that being said, I think that what I receive for pay is my own business and generally to speak I keep that information to myself. I think that this has been a valuable experience for the OP and she will remember it for the future.
Try not to feel bad OP and just keep focused on the work at hand and getting the most out of this work experience. Keep in mind that you didn't make any of those nurses quit, they decided that they were not being compensated fairly and thus they sought other opportunities elsewhere. Best of luck!
First if all, his place does sound like it might have some crocodiles inhabiting its waters. It sounds like you're working with some established, probably older, LPNs.
Basically, they know the business way better than a wet behind the ears new RN. A certain percentage of this category of nurse can be very resentful when a young, new, naive nurse comes on the scene, making more right out the gate. They never bothered getting their RN and don't like whippersnappers who want days off.
You didn't know enough to keep quiet, now they are acting nasty. Remember, they aren't your mother. Some of them probably have frustrating lives on a lot of levels.
I went to LTC right out of school. There were some crusty ones. I deferred to those ladies, I suggest you do the same. They know more than you.
Jules A, MSN
8,864 Posts
No but I'd hope everyone would think about the reasons they aren't willing to discuss it and consider it. In my experience it has made a major difference in my own income as well as the income of people I have shared my salary with over the years.
What I don't think many consider is that it doesn't cost me a dime to tell what I make and in fact it helps me keep a foothold on my good rates if others aren't ignorantly coming behind me undercutting my wages by accepting embarrassingly low offers. Why would my employer want to pay me $100 an hour if there is a twit willing to work for $60?