A little confusion re: some people's thoughts about LPNs

Indy, LPN, LVN · Apr 24, 2007

It's not that they aren't real. It's due to actual scope of practice and the way they are sometimes utilized in a facility. For example, each state board determines the scope (I think). So in my state I think LPN's aren't supposed to do IV push medications or hang blood, and I also hear that there are certification classes they can go to, to expand their scope of practice.

Pair that with the trend in hospitals and some nursing homes (not all of them) to put an RN "in charge" and responsible for, and liable for, what the LPN's do. What you wind up with is the RN thinking she has a patient load that is astronomical or unreasonable due to that liability, and then the RN wishes she just had more RN's working so the liability would be lessened somewhat.

Did that make any sense?

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Apr 24, 2007

I don't feel that is generally true here. But-I used to be a LPN, and when I first joined here, I got into a debate about this with someone who turned out to be a troll, and probably not a nurse at all. Some kind person PMd me and let me know that I was taking the bait of someone who was only here to wreak havoc.

After all, the N in LPN stands for Nurse, doesn't it? And BTW, I am a clinical educator for LPN students. I teach them nursing, period. You are a nurse, and a valuable asset to the health care arena. Don't let the attitude of one misguided person ruin what you have achieved in getting that nursing license.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Apr 24, 2007

Sorry, Indy- you posted while I was writing. My response wasn't a rebuttal to your post.

Trauma Columnist · Apr 24, 2007

I too was an LPN prior to getting my RN. That was >15 years ago. Nowadays, at least in my area LPNs are used excluseively in the LTC setting. It doesn't mean they aren't "real" nurses, they are. Its just the scope of practice is limited.

Indy, LPN, LVN · Apr 24, 2007

's ok.

BJLynn · Apr 24, 2007

I'm an LPN currently. Hoping to go back to get my BSN eventually before I'm to old and frail to use it. At my facility the only time we make a delination between RN and LPN is when an outside staff member starts to get a little huffy and asks for a "real nurse". We just kind of roll our eyes and hand over the phone to one of the RNs who proceed to inform the caller that the NURSE they just spoke to is more than capable of talking to them.

We all work as a team where I work. We pool resources, knowledge, and skills. Therefore it really doesn't matter if the individual nurse is an LPN or RN. Besides, at my facility, there is very very little difference between the job of an RN and LPN. In fact, when I answer the phone, or call to a Dr's office, I just identify myself as a "nurse".

sorry for the rambling..............off to find more coffee................stupid second shift combined with daughter who thinks 6:30am is a good time to get up..................thank goodness she's cute...................

abooker · Apr 24, 2007

The textbook in my Nursing Trends LPN-RN program states:

"As the International Congress of Nursing (ICN) determined in 1985, the term 'nurse' is reserved for an RN (Holleran, 1991). Referring to anyone else or allowing anyone else to use this title undermines the profession."

This is from pg. 41 of Barbara Cherry & Susan R. Jacob's Contemporary Nursing Issues, Trends, & Management, third edition. I think this is a vile textbook to use in a class full of LPN's.

The "real nurse" lecture, on an Elsevier website, comes from the desire of some RN's to aggrandize their image as professionals by distancing themselves from those they consider to be basic nurses.

More educated = more professional is what I've been being taught. Personally, as an LPN, I believe professional is an attitude, and my textbook and one of my professors is deluded. In the USA, LPN/LVNs are absolutely nurses, and anyone who says otherwise is demonstrating a serious lack of critical thinking skills.

TazziRN, RN · Apr 24, 2007

I am not one that thinks LVNs are not nurses. They most certainly are, with a different scope of practice. However, I may have been guilty of meaning only RNs when referring to nurses because I do not work with LVNs. No other reason. If I have ever offended anyone here by those comments, I apologize. I've known RNs that never should have been licensed, and LVNs that absolutely rock.

Simplepleasures · Apr 24, 2007

Speaking from 27 years of experience as an LPN in LTC, I say an LPN in LTC has exactly the same duties and responsibilities as an RN that works the floor.Most LPN's are now being required to be IV certified and in the facility I worked we did IV pushes.The pay was less of course and rightfully so as another year of education does mean something afterall, even in LTC.There were years that at one particular facility I was the only LPN on my floor and there was anotherLPN on the other floor, with an RN on call. We were instructed to call only in a dire emergency of monumental proportions, or else we we lambasted the next day.And this was one of the BESt nursing homes in the city.

DarciaMoonz, LPN · Apr 24, 2007

I am thinking it is the same in many LTC facilities. Many of the places I have checked out as possible employers all offer I.V. cert to their LPNs. Once again, my argument is, it depends on the facility where you work at in conjunction with your states nurse scope of practice on how a LPN is utilized. Some places are a little bit more open as to what we can and can't do as LPNs. It's kind of a grey area when it comes to those matters. What you may have done at one facility you may not be allowed to do at another because the policies and procedures are written according to what the facility needs at that time. I am still a nurse regardless. I don't really specify whether I am a LPN or RN when asked, unless it is for a job or if there is really a need for clarification . Other than that when people ask me what I do for a living, my reply is: " I am a nurse:)

jill48, ASN, RN · Apr 24, 2007

I was really trying to avoid this topic today but when I read your post, I determined it was a sign for me to speak up. Most people on this forum show as much respect to LPN's as they do to RN's. For the most part, on this forum, nurses are nurses. It has been established in (MANY) previous threads that the title "nurse" can legally be used by both RN's and LPN's. It has also been established that their are only a few things that LPN's cannot do that RN's can, and those things vary per state. But this is what is confusing me. In the last 2 days alone, I have been offended twice by RN's...how do I put this....seemingly purposely addressing posts only to RN's when the problem really concerns both RN's and LPN's. Now I'm not saying that there aren't a million things that concern only the RN license, because I know that is a completely different scope. But these were threads like....."Did anyone change their last name after getting their RN license?" I'm sorry to the OP for pointing this out, I don't think you did it intentionally. But don't you think maybe this question could apply to the LPN license also? When an LPN reads a thread like that, she feels put down and excluded from the circle of nurses. I didn't even feel right posting in that thread because I am not an RN. Do you see what I mean? I have to wonder if some RN's who say they respect LPN's as nurses are really just putting on a nice face and acting; but really do believe that they, as RN's, are so much better. Once again, I am not trying to start an argument or offend, I just have to wonder sometimes if we really are viewed as less than nurses.