When attending a traditional BSN program, are students told they're better than ADNs? - page 5
...intellectually, or is it just implied? I am a ADN- holding RN and have already been rather smugly informed by around four RNs where I recently began working that THEY have BSNs. Sorry, but 3/4of... Read More
0Mar 5, '14 by LadyFree28, BSN, RNQuote from MunoRNYes, back to the original question; again, I would LOVE to know what programs are "selling" this point; I am very grateful I am not in an area that promotes such nonsense; maybe it's due to the large percentage of professors and instructors that have been diploma and ASN nurses prior to becoming a BSN and earning their MSN in my program that I didn't hear it, thank goodness.Back to the original question, it's certainly not unheard of for BSN and RN-BSN programs to make the claim that BSN nurses are better nurses than ADN nurses in their promotional/information material, which usually involves citing the Aiken studies on outcomes. Usually the implied message is that if you don't want to kill your patients due to your inferior education, then get a BSN not an ADN. You have to remember that BSN programs are selling a product after all and it's understandable why they would want to separate themselves from alternatives that are typically lower priced.
I think about my research professor who was a ASN who went on to get her BSN, MSN, and doctorate; that Aiken study must have been the holy grail in terms of research and preparing for better outcomes; she is a program director at a local hospital where she did research as a ASN prior to becoming a BSN, and even though they hire ADNs, they favor BSNs now; she still works at this area hospital, and helped shape the change to hiring more BSNs and encouraging ADNs to get their BSNs; in the classroom-no associate-degree bashing-she lived her ADN roots, but enjoyed the examples of working at an actual hospital that produced the factors of Aiken's study.Last edit by LadyFree28 on Mar 5, '14
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0Mar 5, '14 by Susie2310Quote from LadyFree28No, I haven't been through a generic BSN program. I clearly referred specifically to my experience in an ADN-BSN program and I clearly referred to my geographic area. I also referred to comments made to me by generic BSN students in the program I bridged into about the quality of their clinical training and program deficiencies, as defined by them. I also stated in my post my observations of these students clinical practice in our community health practicum. That was all I said, in reply to part of llg's post. I didn't generalize my comments to "all" BSN programs or "all" BSN students/graduates, and I didn't go on to discuss anyone's perception of tasks, the nursing process, nursing schools, or the transition from student nurse to practicing nurse, or anything else.My point is you haven't been in a generic BSN program, do how would one know what they didn't know since they are still learning??? Most studied believe clinical skills are the "tasks": IV lines, medication administration, etc; a lot of students fumble through teaching or even still connecting the dots due to the atmosphere; not the hours itself; I am sure there were peers in your ADN program that were in the same conundrum and have gone on to become wonderful nurses; that happens when one actually goes on to hone their practice by allowing their fundamental foundation comment the dots to the actuals; "clinical hours", IMHO, have NOTHING compared the actual hours in a clinical setting as a practicing nurse.
As what I have been observing here on AN, surveying clinical programs naturally and researched skill mix as a practical research protect during my BSN; again, hours related to ADN and BSN are similar though planned out differently; there is no statistical difference; the major difference is the atmosphere or learning; granted if we had the same type of clinical instructor in terms of background; the only difference is location and program, is there REALLY A difference in schools??? Not so much; that also doesn't mean that there aren't instructors that do a "bare minimum" job, or even may not know how or may not be allowed to do as much for any extraneous factors-patient census, liability issues, etc.
That still doesn't give one a disadvantage when stepping on the floor as a graduate nurse; the information how to theoretically "think like a nurse" is still there, and it still can be shaped.Last edit by Susie2310 on Mar 5, '14
5Mar 5, '14 by cinlouCheck out this site and it will tell you the clinical hours for LPN, ADN, BSN for most all states, you will find there isn't much difference from state to state, however each state has there own requirements, and some states don't have specific hours just recommendations. Many colleges within the same state speak to each other and try to run similar hours for their own programs. With that said hours do not equate to quality or the ability for each student to learn in the same manner. Some nurses are better at some skills than others, some are better leaders than others. All are individuals and everyone has their own strengths, that is why we need all levels to make a team.
0Mar 7, '14 by Charlie Don't SurfI'm brand new here, and a student working on my degree- is it acceptable to post a relevant ADN/BSN question in this thread as a student?
0Mar 7, '14 by Nola009Quote from Charlie Don't SurfEven if your comment is irrelevant, dont worry. You wouldnt be the first. I, as the OP say 'go for it!!'I'm brand new here, and a student working on my degree- is it acceptable to post a relevant ADN/BSN question in this thread as a student?
0Mar 7, '14 by Charlie Don't SurfHas anyone here not been able to get the RN job that they wanted (being realistic) because they only had RN on their name tag? I'm kind of at this crevasse between the two, and the realistic and fundamental differences between the two. And while I'm in NC, I'm likely to want to relocate, so does this ADN/BSN issue vary greatly between states and regions?
2Mar 7, '14 by CrazyGoonRNI was already an LPN when I started my BSN program so I started out with a different mindset than my peers. In my BSN program I never heard any talk implying that ADN programs made you less of a nurse. My program taught us that BSN nurses are better prepared to be researchers of EBP and to further our education to become leaders in the nursing profession. I think it really just depends on the nursing program and how it teaches it's students.
0Mar 7, '14 by Nola009Quote from Charlie Don't SurfIn my area (northern middle US), metropolitan area hospitals want BSNs or at least RNs who are commited to pursuing their BSN within such and such a time frame from the date of hire.Has anyone here not been able to get the RN job that they wanted (being realistic) because they only had RN on their name tag? I'm kind of at this crevasse between the two, and the realistic and fundamental differences between the two. And while I'm in NC, I'm likely to want to relocate, so does this ADN/BSN issue vary greatly between states and regions?
In the more rural area hospitals, ADN-holding RNs are just as accepted as the BSNs.
The odds are high that you will want to go back for your BSN if you want to ever work as a supervisor or outside of a LTC facility.
I am a new-grad ADN holding RN who is working at a LTC/SNF and in the process of going for the BSN. I need to work as I make my way through my schooling, so this route was best for me.
If you can go ahead and go straight for the BSN degree, I would recomend doing that, as it will likely save you a lot of time in the long run.
Best of luck to you !
1Mar 7, '14 by ThePrincessBride, BSN, RNI'm in a BSN program. We aren't told that we are better, but our new grads are definitely at an advantage compared to the ADN-new grads. Certain hospitals in my location already have posted "BSNs strongly prefered" or "BSN only." But I don't think one is "better" than the other.
3Mar 15, '14 by FurBabyMom, BSN, RNI completed my nursing education in a BSN program. I made the choice that was right for me at the time. There were many factors. I was 17 when I was making college decisions. I thought I wanted to do nursing, but what 17 year old has any real idea? My reasons for choosing the institution (and therefore degree program I did) had to do with financing my education, being able to keep my health insurance, and the ease of getting through a degree program as seamlessly as possible (ex. the school I went to only admits X students to the nursing program per year, and all X number of students are guaranteed seats in nursing and co-curricular classes so long as academic and clinical eligibility is maintained). The fact was that the ADN program at the community college near where I attending my BSN program had an average degree completion time of 4 years, and my BSN program had a 4 year rate, provided you maintained your GPA and clinical eligibility. Why wouldn't I just, as a traditional aged student, complete the BSN and get it over with?
There was some attitude given about degree superiority while I was in school. I don't think many of my classmates bought into it, and it was only a specific few of our professors who preached it. The one who was the most adamant about it was also adamant that only about 5 members of our class would actually graduate and of those five only 1-2 would manage to pass NCLEX...the rest of us were far too insignificant and unable to do anything. Which I think should tell you what most of our class thought about that professor at all.
The thing that was somewhat better (and meaningfully) articulated to our class was that with the way healthcare is moving it would make us more easily employable to be a BSN grad. That we would not have tom go back to school for it later. And that most (all) of the hospital systems in our area were requiring it as a condition of employment.
It wasn't so much school that pushed the superiority on us. I would say my employer at the time was more adamant about it than my school was (by a ton). My employer when I was in nursing school (I worked as an assistant, and for a well known, well ranked, academic medical center) would not hire anything but BSN grads, and would go so far as to hire non-BSN students for their assistant jobs and tell them flat out, regardless of whether you performed your current job well, you would not be considered for a nursing job unless you were a BSN grad.
The joke was on me (and many of my classmates) though. Jobs were harder to find than we thought they should have been. I moved to take a job that sucked (was not remotely safe). My second job wasn't much better. My third job, most days I love. Some days still sucks (as is the nature of it being work, which is compounded by working in healthcare).
I would also argue that not all BSN programs are created equal (just as no ADN programs are the same, etc). My program had an amazing nursing program and honestly, our school had a great core curriculum which was required for all students. I see it now better than I did as a student, some of the classes that didn't seem pertinent actually are useful. Maybe not to clinical nursing, but my job is not just my skills I learned in school (it would be silly to settle and accept that - we should strive to do better and grow always). There are skills I have learned since school (my specialty is often skipped entirely by nursing programs except to say it exists). Working involves being part of a team, and also committee work and many other things.
I have said it before, I have worked with non BSN grads that scare me. I have worked with BSN grads that scare me. Similarly, I have worked with nurses that are excellent with many different academic backgrounds. I don't actually think it's the academic background but how one chooses to practice. And that says considerably more about an individual than it does an individual's education.
4Mar 16, '14 by BlueDevil, DNP, DNP, NPTo answer the OP, yes, we were told that, very matter of factly. The faculty certainly believed it to be the case, we students liked believing it, lol. I was also told that Pluto was a planet. I was told a lot of things that may or may not be absolute truths.
And your colleagues may, in fact, believe they are better nurses than you are. So what? You apparently don't believe it, so it is no skin off your nose. Just do your job and forget about it. Let it go.
1Mar 16, '14 by SE_BSN_RNI did a LPN-BSN program, and was never told this. I was told as a LPN who was "task oriented now needs to look at the big picture, and ask who, what, when, why, and how, because that is what you do as a professional nurse". I have BSN in my name because I worked and paid for that degree, and I am proud to hold that degree. Took me a long time to even decide to go back and get it! I was also told we sign our name with the higher degree first, so I sign my documentation "CB, BSN, RN."
ADN, BSN....we all took and passed the same NCLEX. If you have an ADN and want to think you are better, go for it. The thing that bothers me is that LPN's aren't considered "professional" nurses. LPN's are "licensed"......and THAT is a whole other topic.