BSN vs. ADN income disparity - page 2

I just went to a job fair and got a sheet from Loyola Hospital in Chicago. They pay their new ADN's 24.20. They pay new BSNs only 24.50 an hour. That does not make me happy at all. I am... Read More

  1. by   jalease
    Where have you experienced this? I am an LPN, that gets paid an average of $6 less than an ADN and do the same work. I am in a RN program, but will not work for the same employer because in conversation, will only get a $2 increase in pay when I'm finished.
  2. by   Tweety
    Quote from jalease
    Where have you experienced this? I am an LPN, that gets paid an average of $6 less than an ADN and do the same work. I am in a RN program, but will not work for the same employer because in conversation, will only get a $2 increase in pay when I'm finished.
    We are talking about the pay descripancy between RNs. Not between LPNs and RNs.

    Good luck to you.
  3. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from stevielynn
    I admire your convictions but the truth is an RN is an RN - whether they have a BSN or ADN.

    Your goal is nurse practitioner I see. No worries - they make more than RN's usually.

    My advice for people right out of high school who are interested in nursing is to get your BSN. For others, who go back to school later and whose lives are full with husbands and children, there is the option of an ADN.

    Until there is some uniformity in how a nursing degree is obtained, an RN will still be an RN.

    steph
    Well said Steph. And very true.
  4. by   Nemhain
    Quote from romie
    My point is that I will not work for an employer that does not value my education. I have ALWAYS, ALWAYS gotten paid more than my peers doing the same job because I have a masters degree and because I do a better job of it. I don't care if you have two nurses working side by side, the BSN nurse should get paid more and not pennies more.

    Count me out-- I'll go work at another hospital that pays their more educated nurses more. $24 an hour is an insult in Chicago for an RN. LPNs at Alden (a nursing home company) make around 24 an hour.
    Won't work for an employer who won't pay you a lot more than another nurse with the same scope of practice who's doing the same job? Then, romie, I don't think you'll have a job when you're done!

    A job with more autonomy is what BSN and higher degree obtaining RN's can look forward to having; not more pay for the same job.

    A Nurse Practitioner certificate in your MSN doesn't garner any more pay at the bedside if you are working as a staff nurse. If you want NP pay then you have to do gain employment as a Nurse Practitioner.
  5. by   jjjoy
    While it's true the OP apparently didn't get the facts about how pay scales work for nurses, why are many so quick to DEFEND the status quo?

    I agree that brand new nurses shouldn't be making more than experienced nurses no matter their degree if they are in similar positions. However, between two people with similar work experience, I think it would be good for the profession if relevant additional education (I don't just mean CEUs) were rewarded to those who continued to work at the bedside. Again, it's not that uncommon in other fields for two people doing the same job to get different pay because one has a earned a higher degree or some other sort of certification.

    Of course, it would also be good for the profession if experienced nurses' pay reflected their years of experience. In any scenario, there would certainly be folks who had worked a long time or had lots of education whose performance wasn't all that great, but it's not like nurses who do perform better get more pay anyway, so at least substantially increasing pay by experience and/or by education allows some way for nurses to be rewarded for their experience and relevant higher education they pursue without having to leave the bedside.

    In the short term, it looks like it's more cost efficient to pay more or less the same rate to newbies, experienced nurses, and nurses with extended education. So my idealistic musing of how nursing pay might work likely don't get very far.
  6. by   Altra
    Quote from Tweety
    Not to beat a dead horse, but I want to address this aspect of your post.

    NLN-approved ADN programs prepare their nurses quite well. Their instructors should have a minimum of a Masters. However, NLN approved BSN programs must have a minimum number of PhD prepared nurses. This is primarily because of the courses they have extra like research, community health, legal ethical ethics, etc. But as far as beginning nursing skills, the patho-phys-pharm of nursing, the BSN and ADN nurses are prepared fairly equally, with maybe a bit more nitty gritty details given to the BSN programs.

    This is evidenced by passing rates of NCLEX. Both ADN and BSN nurses take the same NCLEX without distinction to the ADN being less educated because of not being trained by PhD RNs.

    As I've said in my experience precepting them I can honestly tell you they both are green and inexperienced and need to be oriented at least 12 weeks and the BSN does not prepare any better for bedside nursing than the ADN.

    Again, I still think a premium should be paid for the BSN, but your arguments and expectations are a little weak.
    :yeahthat:

    My hospital pays $ .50/hr. to RNs w/a BSN. This figure is a common one I've heard many times here at allnurses.com, from nurses who work in all parts of the country.

    Another perspective -- the largest academic hospital system in my area, which advertises many of its nursing positions as "BSN preferred" also includes 2 diploma schools in its system - and hires, retains and promotes many, many of these graduates.

    If you have been led to believe (or believe you were led to believe ... ) that you would immediately be "worth" significantly more as a new RN working with a BSN, then I feel badly for you. Sometimes reality isn't what you would like it to be.

    Oh, and I thought I'd throw this in: I graduated less than 2 years ago from *gasp* ... a diploma program. Two of my instructors have PhDs and a 3rd was pursuing her doctorate. Do I get to make more than some of my ADN counterparts who had no PhD instructors? Hmmm ...
  7. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from jjjoy
    While it's true the OP apparently didn't get the facts about how pay scales work for nurses, why are many so quick to DEFEND the status quo?

    I agree that brand new nurses shouldn't be making more than experienced nurses no matter their degree if they are in similar positions. However, between two people with similar work experience, I think it would be good for the profession if relevant additional education (I don't just mean CEUs) were rewarded to those who continued to work at the bedside. Again, it's not that uncommon in other fields for two people doing the same job to get different pay because one has a earned a higher degree or some other sort of certification.

    Of course, it would also be good for the profession if experienced nurses' pay reflected their years of experience. In any scenario, there would certainly be folks who had worked a long time or had lots of education whose performance wasn't all that great, but it's not like nurses who do perform better get more pay anyway, so at least substantially increasing pay by experience and/or by education allows some way for nurses to be rewarded for their experience and relevant higher education they pursue without having to leave the bedside.

    In the short term, it looks like it's more cost efficient to pay more or less the same rate to newbies, experienced nurses, and nurses with extended education. So my idealistic musing of how nursing pay might work likely don't get very far.
    Unlike with the universal healthcare thread, we completely agree here.

    Experience and education are functions of each other. They are as intertwined as nature and nurture. BOTH should be compensated.

    IF BSNs got paid 5 bucks more an hour, inside a decade the ADN/BSN debate would be moot. Individual nurses and future nurses would be basing their decisions on economics and the debate would largely answer itself.

    Of course, this is precisely WHY hospitals don't want to pay more. . .

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  8. by   NeosynephRN
    Here the pay difference is about .50 cents...as I have read here that seems about normal!! I am about to graduate from an ADN program, and while most of my instructors have their masters, I have had a few that had PhD's, but that makes no difference in the final outcome...IMO!!!
  9. by   propofool
    What do you mean?
  10. by   propofool
    Quote from HealingHands327
    Why not get a masters in anesthetics for nursing. There is a big descrepency there between pay and education. umpiron:
    What do you mean?
  11. by   nurse4theplanet
    Quote from romie
    I just went to a job fair and got a sheet from Loyola Hospital in Chicago. They pay their new ADN's 24.20. They pay new BSNs only 24.50 an hour. That does not make me happy at all.
    Like others have said...that's not unusual. There are hospitals in my area that don't pay a penny more for a BSN. The highest I have heard of is $1. I am a new nurse, ADN, and I work with two wonderful direct entry second-degree BSNs (one microbiology major the other a former pharmaceutical rep), three first degree BSNs, and two other ADN grads...and we are ALL functioning on the same level in our ICU unit. The money you invested in your higher educational preparation was not for bedside purposes...an ADN would have sufficed. You will reap your benefits long-term when experience is gained and more opportunities are available to you. If I want those same opportunities as an ADN, then I will have to invest the same amount in my education as well. I don't see what is so unfair about that?

    I am currently enrolled in a direct entry program for people with degrees in other fields. My classmates are geniuses--many are researchers, most have masters degrees and we even have a girl in my class who has a PhD in Molecular Biology. We are training to become Nurse Practitioners. I personally have over 10 years of healthcare experience as an unlicensed assistive personell or healthcare manager and you are telling me that after all is said and done, you are still only going to pay me .30 an hour more than an ADN nurse once I enter the workforce as an RN while continuing with my NP education? I am definitely not applying to Loyola if they care so little about education.
    I do not doubt that you have some highly educated students in your class. However, don't assume that an ADN program would not have the same level of students. While not all of my classmates held a previous degree, about a third of the class did...anything from acounting, IT, to biology, social work, and veterinary science. They chose the ADN route after investing much time and money into their previous education and not being able to find a job, jobs being outsourced, disatisfaction with current opportunities, or simply because the college was the first to accept their application or the tuition was more affordable for family living, etc.

    I don't want to downplay your experience in the healthcare setting, however, you must certainly see the differences in your role as an UAP vs. your role as a BSN prepared RN who will be seeking her NP. Quite different. Therefore, your previous skills are not as marketable as you may have initially believed.

    And finally, I plan to get my BSN, then my master's...possibly NP or possibly CRNA...however, life works out. It really doesn't matter one hill of beans to my employer, as they are concerned only with my CURRENT level of education and licensure.

    Every member of the nursing faculty at my university and every nurse who is teaching me has a PhD in nursing... Do you see where I am getting at? You don't necessarily get this preparation as an ADN student...
    You should not measure your worth or marketability by OTHERS accomplishments. You were not being taught at the level of a PhD. You were being instructed at an entry level of nursing. CPR is CPR regardless whether it is taught by a paramedic or a doctor. In the same sense, basic bedside nursing concepts that are required to be taught for entry into nursing practice remain the same whether your instructor has a master's or a PhD.
  12. by   caliotter3
    I have followed the income disparity ever since I became "aware" of the differences in school, and I have to say, conclusively, from work experience, as well as educational experience, we nurses as a whole, create our own problem in this arena b/c we stand back and allow employers to control the outcomes. There are many factors involved. But in the long run, employment at will, mgmt vs labor, education vs hands-on, IT DOES NOT MATTER! The auth when they enter your facilities see bodies, functioning well, excellent, or "just there", they do not care what the pay rate is or will be or was. This is why the labor unions have sometimes let us down. And the bottom line is: "If you are literally in the street (as I have been) and are willing to work for low wages and benefits (as I have been willing) you are part of the problem. Cheap labor will always win out over excellence in bottom layers of the workplace foodchain. Sorry, but true.
  13. by   KellNY
    Cali-I'm not sure what exactly you think we're contributing to, but I am an RN (BSN) who doesn't think that she deserves much more in pay than an ADN. I do the same work as they do as a bedside staff nurse. We hang the same IVs, assess the same Pts, draw the same labs, communicate with the same doctors, fill out the same paperwork, empty the same bedpans.

    Then why go for your BSN? Some people just want their bachelors. Some wanted the more well rounded college experience. Some want to be in nurse leadership, or are interested in research or education.

    Me personally, I got my BSN because I plan on getting my CNM/MSN in he near future and it didn't make any sense for me to get my ADN. I'd also like to become a pt nursing educator. So for me, like many, the BSN was the ticket to more opportunities within nursing, not a cash cow in and of itself.

    (I just did the math, as we go by per year, and BSNs where I work make 40 cents more per hour)

close