A Different Approach to the ADN vs. BSN Debate - page 11

Over and over again, we read the same things on these threads. Pay BSN's more at the bedside, and mandate a BSN for all entry level nurses. There is widespread assumption that a BSN mandate would... Read More

  1. by   RNsRWe
    Quote from NextSummer
    Well, I don't know it's reasoning, but if one grows up in an environment where university education is the minimum expectation from your parents, one can't say that "I want to do nursing that does not need university education."
    My parents would have been so disappointed if I have gone to community college after high school. For them it doesn't make sense to choose community college instead of university just because the former is cheaper and you can go into the workforce faster.
    I completely understand this, I really do. When I graduated from high school, I toyed with the idea of not going to college at all and THAT shocked my parents to no end: I was to be the first college graduate in my family and believe me, that was a huge big deal. My father and grandfather were (are) extremely well educated people, but not in the traditional degree sense: they were intelligent enough to take on schooling themselves, reading and studying to make the most out of what they were doing and pass on that love of education to their children and grandchildren.

    Now, that said, they were proud of me when I obtained my first degree. But that said, my only responsibility, really, was myself: I worked part-time for money as I chose, not because I had a mortgage to pay or kids to feed. Or even myself, for that matter. When I traveled abroad to work and attend a university program for a different goal, they supported that too (although financially I could support myself for that one). They were very proud.

    But when I went back to school after having been married ten years and having two children and all that goes into keeping that thriving, they were practically bursting with pride. NOTHING I had done in any schooling before that compared. My becoming an RN was their shining moment of pride, but NOT because of the additional degree attained (although of course that was important---and there was NO looking down on the Associates aspect). It was because I was achieving yet again, and excelling in education and life and THAT was far more important to them than whether that RN education was Associates or Bachelor's. And that, NextSummer, is really the difference between the grand majority of nursing students today and the "traditional" students of yesteryear: 2nd and 3rd career adults with families versus teenagers just out of primary education.

    I look at my eldest son and know that I want him to go ALL THE WAY, lol....I don't even know what that is, but darn it, he'd better get as far in education as possible. That's my expectation, not just my desire. But I have also learned that sometimes the greatest satisfactions in life don't come with the highest degree or education attained. I would rather seem him a very happy computer tech than a miserable cardiologist. Sorry, Mom
  2. by   rags
    "not everyone can commute an hour or more each way to attend a uni program, when there are ADN programs nearer by."

    In my case the "local" university BSN program was 5 hours away (not even an option without relocating for any person) and the ADN program I attended was an hour each way. I think many don't realize that Nursing would not have even been considered had I and others like me (older generation) not had a closer nursing program as an option.

    I'm totally speculating here, but when I was in High School, continuing education was important, but not as important as it is now. I would guess only about 50% of my 750 student high school graduating class even went on to further their education out of high school. Of the ones that did it was equally divided between VoTech, Community College and University attendance. >20 has seen a lot of change. For me to go back to school when my kids were in High School themselves was a major thing in itself and going to a 2 year College as opposed to a University really didn't make a lick of difference in the pride I and my family (including extended family) felt with this step in our lives.

    I take nothing away from the BSN programs and the ones who are able to choose them. I applaud you! However I applaud everyone who attends any form of high education just as loudly, be it a 2 year College or even a Vocational School. Doing better for yourself is never an easy thing to do and all forms of it deserve to be recognized and respected. icon_hug:

    rags
  3. by   Grammel
    RNsRWe,
    I appreciate your feedback and encouragement. I've been considering going after MS but at this stage in my life not sure I want to persue more education that would ultimately lead me to adm. or teaching, and have considered case management for about a year...dragging my feet, and also legal consulting, but just have'nt found anything that lights my fire...so, will keep at it till I find something that will. I'll probably have to get out there and try a few things I'm sure, but after being out of nsg for 3 years now it won't be easy I'm sure even with a good resume. Problem is I just don't want to give up on hands on nsg. but guess I'll probably have no choice. Has anyone heard about PROLOTHERAPY? I just came across it while searching for "falling on buttocks injury), of all things...and found this tx, Dr. says it just might be my "cure" is going to refer me to L & I for this and am praying they will approve it...worth a try anyway...Please Pray (if you pray)...Thanks, Grammel
  4. by   travel soon
    I am in Kentucky and have been an LPN for 18 yrs. now and next May with any luck I will finally finish my ADN. I have to say I feel like I should have a BSN by then but oh well. Anyway, I just wanted to know because apparentely I am behind times. What is the debate about the BSN vs. ADN I really never realized there was one? I know that the powers that be have almost comepletely eliminated the LPN positions. Please tell me I won't have to go back and do the BSN any time soon...

    Melissa
  5. by   SoxfanRN
    When discussing barriers to Nursing as a profession affordability and accessability are two very big barriers, especially in small states and rural areas. ADN programs in community colleges provide access and affordable tuition, and that is where their strengths lie with recruitment. Add on the fact that most RNs enter the profession in later life and/or as a second career, ADN programs are usually the easiest and quickest option toward an RN. These reasons, along with a glaring nursing shortage, are the very reasons no one is willing to take the plunge toward BSN as entry. For those states toying with BSN into entry, these reasons are why they would delineate an RN with a BSN and a Technical Nurse (TN) with their ADNs. Just one option I have heard about.
  6. by   burn out
    Let's try an analogy. Let's say I go into the grocery store to buy a pack of gum. I can stand in the long line behind all the filled shopping carts and pay $1.00 or I can go to the express line and get through quickly and pay $0.50. Either way I still have the same pack of gum.

    Until there is any incentive given why would someone chose the long way?
    Until BSN is made entry level there is no reason not to go the ADN route.
    To most people outside of nursing it must look really silly to go the long route and pay more and still end up with the same job as someone that took the express route.
  7. by   SmilingBluEyes
    I cannot say the ADN route is "easiest" or even "fastest" route to an RN----because as llg pointed out, it's not. We end up doing a LOT more coursework and clinical experiences as well, than any other so-called "two year" program would ever require. But most AD programs ARE more widely available and affordable than BSN programs are. That is why, I personally, chose the AD route into professional nursing. Let no one think people who chose an AD route "took the easy or fast way" or are unambitious or lazy. Simply not true. For some, it was the ONLY way in that worked for them. But it was neither easy nor fast. I am with llg; time to look at AD program requirements and give more credit. It's an outrage that nearly everyone must dang near get another, separate associate's degree just to gain entry into an AD nursing program. By the time most people are accepted, they either already have an AD (like I did) or are close----and took nearly 2 (or more) years just trying to getting into nursing school. I think it would be a good idea to add the remaining classes and make them ALL baccalaureate degrees. Then we could finally stop bickering over this and find another subject to fight about. Everyone would be on "even footing" in the end.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Mar 15, '07
  8. by   rags
    Quote from travel soon
    I am in Kentucky and have been an LPN for 18 yrs. now and next May with any luck I will finally finish my ADN. I have to say I feel like I should have a BSN by then but oh well. Anyway, I just wanted to know because apparentely I am behind times. What is the debate about the BSN vs. ADN I really never realized there was one? I know that the powers that be have almost comepletely eliminated the LPN positions. Please tell me I won't have to go back and do the BSN any time soon...

    Melissa
    I think you will be safe for many years to come, the rumor of going to BSN is not an old one. I think that not feeling the debate where you work is a good sign that so far the Board of Nursing, and employers feel ADN programs are needed and qualify new grads to come into the work force. With the nursing shortage set to get worse before it gets better with the baby boomers (many currently in ADN programs ) it would be damaging to the nursing availability.

    Breath easy and enjoy your new career!

    rags
  9. by   MSADN
    When I go through the RN to BSN program, I will need to take only one course with a clinical component. The reason for this is the program I have chosen credits ALL of my ADN nursing courses as UPPER LEVEL nursing credit. The biggest departure in the RN to BSN is a pathophysiology course. The rest are Role Development, Role Transition, Management, Health Policy, Research, and Population Based Nursing.

    I am an exception in my class, most of whom had associates, Bachelors, or masters before entering. I had 25 hours and will essentially go from scratch to BSN in 3 years, to MSN in four years if I get into the RN-BSN-MSN program. ANy idea why I went through the ADN program first? I'm also 48 y/o, so time is more of a consideration for me than it will be for many on this board.
  10. by   RNsRWe
    Quote from MSADN
    When I go through the RN to BSN program, I will need to take only one course with a clinical component. The reason for this is the program I have chosen credits ALL of my ADN nursing courses as UPPER LEVEL nursing credit. The biggest departure in the RN to BSN is a pathophysiology course. The rest are Role Development, Role Transition, Management, Health Policy, Research, and Population Based Nursing.

    I am an exception in my class, most of whom had associates, Bachelors, or masters before entering. I had 25 hours and will essentially go from scratch to BSN in 3 years, to MSN in four years if I get into the RN-BSN-MSN program. ANy idea why I went through the ADN program first? I'm also 48 y/o, so time is more of a consideration for me than it will be for many on this board.
    I think I'm not following something correctly. You said you're an exception in your class, as most of them had associates, bachelor's or masters prior to entry. Yet you also said you already have an associates, so....? What is the exception? What 25 hours do you mean, and how are you going from "scratch" if you are already an RN in a bridge program? Sorry if I seem dense, lol, but I'm tired
  11. by   MSADN
    Still in my ADN program. I had 25 hours of college credit when I started. Through CLEP and extra classes, I will have the prereqs done to enter directly into a RN-BSN program after I graduate the ADN program in May 2008. Sorry I wasn't clear.
  12. by   MSJ2007
    First, let me say that I am new to the nursing arena and probably a little naive. I will start my MN second degree program in May. I chose this program mostly because of availability and speed. I certainly didn't choose it because of a perceived superiority of a Masters vs. BSN vs. ADN vs. Diploma.

    Secondly, I am wise enough to know that after I complete this degree I will likely receive A LOT of extended training from experienced ADN and BSN nurses. Regardless of the degree, I'm sure all experienced nurses view new nurses as the grass trimmers around the bottom of the totum pole!:wink2:

    Finally, I feel that there is a place for all nursing education levels. Good nurses should receive appropriate responsibilities and commensurate pay. However, while I don't think my MN degree should automatically vault me to the top, consideration should be made for the advanced educational effort and financial debt (totaling over $55,000 including BS in my case) for BSN and MSN/MN degrees. Is it so much to ask that we get paid a little extra? After some investigation, I was disappointed to find out that entry level wages for advanced degrees are as little as $0.80 per hour. If experience is everything, why bother?
    Last edit by MSJ2007 on Mar 15, '07 : Reason: spelling
  13. by   rags
    "If experience is everything, why bother?"

    Self satisfaction. Wider range of job opportunities...

    On the flip side of your question (and not to do anything other than pose a question)... why should any person receive a higher wage for doing the exact same job with the same amount as experience as someone else simply because of how much they paid for their education?

    I believe equal work should = equal pay with increase for experience and specialization certificates. A new grad (or experienced nurse) has the same job description regardless of their degree, with the same expectations.

    Just my opinion.

    rags

close