A Different Approach to the ADN vs. BSN Debate

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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Over and over again, we read the same things on these threads. Pay BSN's more at the bedside, and mandate a BSN for all entry level nurses. There is widespread assumption that a BSN mandate would limit the labor supply even further and increase nursing wages.

I'm not sure that would actually happen but, for the sake of argument, let's assume that it would. Ok: so now you're making more money but, since I live in California where we have mandated staffing ratios ... it got me thinking. What's going to happen in the other 49 states where you don't have ratio laws? Isn't it possible that with a more limited labor pool the hospitals would give you even more unreasonable patient loads at the bedside than you have now?

A BSN mandate could very well limit supply and increase wages but it does nothing to improve working conditions. This is where, IMO, a ratio law is a better alternative because it does both. While a ratio law doesn't limit the supply, it does increase the demand and wages by limiting the number of assigned patients to each RN and forcing the hospitals to create more nursing positions.

Plus, it has the added benefit of making your life a hellava lot easier at the bedside which a BSN mandate doesn't do. By limiting supply even further, a BSN mandate could very well thwart attempts to mandate ratios in other states if there aren't enough nurses to staff mandated ratios.

Now ... this may not satisfy BSN nurses who want more consideration for your degrees but, this is where I don't understand you guys. I'm a recent ADN grad and I'll be spending the next two years working on my BSN. You BSN nurses are already way ahead of me.

You definitely qualify for more jobs than I do. There are, at least, some jobs where you can make more money than me at the bedside and, there are other jobs where your BSN counts as additional experience, etc. for promotion. In my area, at least, the BSN career opportunities are tremendous because there aren't that many BSN nurses to begin with. You're also way ahead of me in getting your master's, which increases your job prospects even further.

I see plenty of benefits with the BSN as it is. If I didn't ... I wouldn't bother with the time and expense of furthering my education.

And I wonder if any of the BSN nurses have considered the flip side of all of this? If everyone had a BSN then, everyone would also qualify for those other job opportunities that only you qualify for now. For nurses who don't want to work at the bedside, you already have a huge advantage over the rest of us.

Do you really want every nurse to qualify for the jobs that only you qualify for now? In some ways, this could actually be detrimental to BSN nurses who, IMO, have a huge advantage over the rest of us as it is.

As the old saying goes ... be careful what you wish for.

Just some food for thought.

:typing

Specializes in Day Surgery/Infusion/ED.
Still in my ADN program. I had 25 hours of college credit when I started. Through CLEP and extra classes, I will have the prereqs done to enter directly into a RN-BSN program after I graduate the ADN program in May 2008. Sorry I wasn't clear.

I may be wrong, but I believe it's a violation of TOS to use a screen name that has credentials you have not yet attained.

I completely understand this, I really do. When I graduated from high school, I toyed with the idea of not going to college at all and THAT shocked my parents to no end: I was to be the first college graduate in my family and believe me, that was a huge big deal. My father and grandfather were (are) extremely well educated people, but not in the traditional degree sense: they were intelligent enough to take on schooling themselves, reading and studying to make the most out of what they were doing and pass on that love of education to their children and grandchildren.

Now, that said, they were proud of me when I obtained my first degree. But that said, my only responsibility, really, was myself: I worked part-time for money as I chose, not because I had a mortgage to pay or kids to feed. Or even myself, for that matter. When I traveled abroad to work and attend a university program for a different goal, they supported that too (although financially I could support myself for that one). They were very proud.

But when I went back to school after having been married ten years and having two children and all that goes into keeping that thriving, they were practically bursting with pride. NOTHING I had done in any schooling before that compared. My becoming an RN was their shining moment of pride, but NOT because of the additional degree attained (although of course that was important---and there was NO looking down on the Associates aspect). It was because I was achieving yet again, and excelling in education and life and THAT was far more important to them than whether that RN education was Associates or Bachelor's. And that, NextSummer, is really the difference between the grand majority of nursing students today and the "traditional" students of yesteryear: 2nd and 3rd career adults with families versus teenagers just out of primary education.

I look at my eldest son and know that I want him to go ALL THE WAY, lol....I don't even know what that is, but darn it, he'd better get as far in education as possible. That's my expectation, not just my desire. But I have also learned that sometimes the greatest satisfactions in life don't come with the highest degree or education attained. I would rather seem him a very happy computer tech than a miserable cardiologist. Sorry, Mom :)

Yeah I totally agree that ADN programs are much more affordable especially for adults with families. My point was that although increasing entry to practice requirements may result in losing people who otherwise might consider nursing as their 2nd or 3rd career, it could lead to recruiting people who have no or less barrier to education like teenagers. I was just saying that changing entry to practice might not cause nursing shortage due to decrease in nursing program enrollment as many people assume. Rather it might lead to attract people who are considering nursing versus other health care professions like PT, OT, SLP, pharmacy, etc. It could even alleviate nursing shortage in a long run if people enter nursing at younger ages and practice 30+ years instead of 20 or less years. Well it's just my assumption.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

Nextsummer: The problem with your assumption is, many people have entered nursing young, only to be ready to leave after 5-10 years. People are not staying all that long, including younger ones, not because AD programs are a problem, but because there are real problems in nursing itself. Read any number of threads here about people working in unliveable and inhuman conditions (particularly in LTC, med-surge and related nursing!) and you will see why people don't hang around long in many cases. Younger people tend to know what they want and I have noticed this generation is very assertive and clear on what they will and won't tolerate (and I say good for them!). Many have parents, aunts/uncles, relatives in nursing who have told them what it is like, and are deciding it is not for them.

I don't see increasing the number of BSN programs (or making RN nursing all-BSN entry) resolving this. We have got to pull together to improve working conditions, staffing ratios and other problems, if we are going to retain the younger generation in nursing. Education is so very important. But until they change the curricula in all programs to educate nurses how to look out for themselves, about business and economics, things just wont' change.

Finally, recruitment is no problem and has not been for a long time; the hospitals are doing cartwheels to entice new nurses into working for them----retention (or lack thereof)---- is what is hurting us; once they "have us" they could not possibly care less about keeping us!!!!!

Specializes in MPCU.

"I don't see increasing the number of BSN programs (or making RN nursing all-BSN entry) resolving this. We have got to pull together to improve working conditions, staffing ratios and other problems, if we are going to retain the younger generation in nursing. Education is so very important. But until they change the curricula in all programs to educate nurses how to look out for themselves, about business and economics, things just wont' change."

Right! Well said, SmilingBluEyes.

Do you have a thread on a good way to do that? It seems many of the traditional approaches do not work.

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