A Different Approach to the ADN vs. BSN Debate

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

Published

Over and over again, we read the same things on these threads. Pay BSN's more at the bedside, and mandate a BSN for all entry level nurses. There is widespread assumption that a BSN mandate would limit the labor supply even further and increase nursing wages.

I'm not sure that would actually happen but, for the sake of argument, let's assume that it would. Ok: so now you're making more money but, since I live in California where we have mandated staffing ratios ... it got me thinking. What's going to happen in the other 49 states where you don't have ratio laws? Isn't it possible that with a more limited labor pool the hospitals would give you even more unreasonable patient loads at the bedside than you have now?

A BSN mandate could very well limit supply and increase wages but it does nothing to improve working conditions. This is where, IMO, a ratio law is a better alternative because it does both. While a ratio law doesn't limit the supply, it does increase the demand and wages by limiting the number of assigned patients to each RN and forcing the hospitals to create more nursing positions.

Plus, it has the added benefit of making your life a hellava lot easier at the bedside which a BSN mandate doesn't do. By limiting supply even further, a BSN mandate could very well thwart attempts to mandate ratios in other states if there aren't enough nurses to staff mandated ratios.

Now ... this may not satisfy BSN nurses who want more consideration for your degrees but, this is where I don't understand you guys. I'm a recent ADN grad and I'll be spending the next two years working on my BSN. You BSN nurses are already way ahead of me.

You definitely qualify for more jobs than I do. There are, at least, some jobs where you can make more money than me at the bedside and, there are other jobs where your BSN counts as additional experience, etc. for promotion. In my area, at least, the BSN career opportunities are tremendous because there aren't that many BSN nurses to begin with. You're also way ahead of me in getting your master's, which increases your job prospects even further.

I see plenty of benefits with the BSN as it is. If I didn't ... I wouldn't bother with the time and expense of furthering my education.

And I wonder if any of the BSN nurses have considered the flip side of all of this? If everyone had a BSN then, everyone would also qualify for those other job opportunities that only you qualify for now. For nurses who don't want to work at the bedside, you already have a huge advantage over the rest of us.

Do you really want every nurse to qualify for the jobs that only you qualify for now? In some ways, this could actually be detrimental to BSN nurses who, IMO, have a huge advantage over the rest of us as it is.

As the old saying goes ... be careful what you wish for.

Just some food for thought.

:typing

Specializes in PEDS ~ PP ~ NNB & LII Nursery.
I got a bachelor's degree in another area before nursing, and the reason for not choosing nursing right out of high school even though I was very interested in becoming a nurse was that one can become a nurse only with 2-3 years of education. Some just simply won't consider nursing if people without a bachelor's degree are also allowed to do the exact same work.

With so many non-traditional nursing students I don't think that is the norm. I also think that most become nurses because they WANT to be nurses and don't really think about the prestege of what degree's a person can get to obtain that accomplishment.

I find it strange that you would actually say you didn't consider nursing simply because someone could do it with a 2-3 year education. Can you expain your reasoning behind that a little more?

rags

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
I don't agree with the point that if BSN is required for entry to practice, many people won't choose nursing. I think there is another pool of people who want to choose nursing if BSN is the minimum entry level to practice - people right out of high school.

I got a bachelor's degree in another area before nursing, and the reason for not choosing nursing right out of high school even though I was very interested in becoming a nurse was that one can become a nurse only with 2-3 years of education. Some just simply won't consider nursing if people without a bachelor's degree are also allowed to do the exact same work.

Completely disagree and, apparently, so do roughly 60% of those entering professional nursing for the first time, no matter what age they may be. There were many reasons people chose community colleges for their nursing education: One of them was the lower cost---as many did not have parents or others to pay for school. Another was the ability to get to work a bit sooner---which again, most considered very imporatant. Still one more: there were a lot more community colleges available nearby than universities. Some people can't or won't commute 1 or more hours each way to go to school and get to clinical sites, every day.

Look around college/uni campuses; you will find many faces that are obviously not fresh from high school. The demographic of nursing is so diverse. We have MANY 2nd or 3rd -career folks among us who find community college education attractive for so many reasons. When I graduated high school, I knew several kids who went on to nursing school and several chose community colleges, when they could have chosen universities (this was the Chicago area). They idea that they could do it "with just a 2 year degree" was not repulsive to any of them. And several went on to complete BSN or MSN later on, when they had the money or time to do so.

Also, I work with plenty of BSNs who apparently will work side by side with AD nurses who DO earn what they make, or darn close to it. And they have for years.

Like I said, I have to respectfully disagree with you, based on these things.

"Some just simply won't consider nursing if people without a bachelor's degree are also allowed to do the exact same work."

While many may disagree with this attitude, I'm sure that some people do have this attitude. There are many high school students who expect to go to university and get at least a bachelor's degree. They may have worked hard to do well in college prep coursework and to get into university. They might feel like why did they bother working so hard to qualify for direct entry to university if they "only" need to earn sn ASN?

If someone really wants to be a nurse, it really shouldn't matter should it? However, many students have been given the impression that if you CAN go to college (have the academic qualifications and the resources available to do so) that you SHOULD go to college. That to do otherwise would be wasting their potential and all their efforts to date. So, whether for good or for bad, for many students any kind of "technical" or "vocational" career is off the list - including cosmetology, auto mechanics, and culinary arts to name a few. To these students, nursing might also be dismissed if it's perceived to be a non-collegiate career path, even if the entry pay is relatively good.

In my experience, most direct RN-BSN students plan on getting away from bedside care ASAP. I'd imagine it's partly because they don't want their college education being "wasted" in a position that doesn't require a college degree nor rewards them for having that extra education.

My comments are in no way advocating BSN as entry for practice or for more pay for BSNs. I'm also not saying BSNs are better prepared or the like. I'm just commenting on how it is that someone might choose AGAINST pursuing an RN because it doesn't require a bachelor's degree.

Specializes in PEDS ~ PP ~ NNB & LII Nursery.
So, whether for good or for bad, for many students any kind of "technical" or "vocational" career is off the list

To clearify: You're NOT saying that's what an ADN or Associates Degree is in regards to Nursing... Correct?

rags

Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.

Note that this ADN vs. BSN thread was supposed to be different than all the thousands of other threads on the topic. But we are AGAIN beating the same dead horses into organic compost.

I think I will stay out..it is not worth the time.

To clearify: You're NOT saying that's what an ADN or Associates Degree is in regards to Nursing... Correct?

rags

I think some people have that impression of nursing. I'm not saying it's an accurate impression.

Specializes in PEDS ~ PP ~ NNB & LII Nursery.
I think some people have that impression of nursing. I'm not saying it's an accurate impression.

Do you think that has more to do with ALL those commercials about becoming a 'medical technician' rather than the different degrees available for RN's? Maybe we should put more effort toward eliminating those rather than the ADN...

Food for thought...

rags

Maybe an ad campaign that emphasizes that Registered Nurses have AT LEAST 3 years of rigorous full-time coursework, plus X many hours of clinical training? There is the impression that it's a "two-year" degree because most associate's degrees ARE just two years. And in some settings LPNs seem to do almost everything RNs do, and that requires only a "one-year" program (functionally at least two years with pre-reqs - though I recently saw a private college offering accelerated health sci pre-reqs!). And THEN throw in medical assistants who now function in what used to be the "nurse" role in doctor's offices and that requires less than a year of training without pre-reqs (local schools advertise a nine month program - though they may too add on some pre-req that I'm not aware of). No wonder the public's confused!

I am not stating anything bad about colleges at all. As a matter of fact, I am graduating from a college in a matter of weeks. In regards to institution, it was referring to either a college or university. All I am saying is that it should not matter what degree you have because upon graduation, everyone will start out at the same point. So I really don't see the whole debate. If a nurse decides to get his/her BSN then great for him/her, but some of us are raising a family and going to school at the same time. Money gets tight and maybe people cannot afford to get a BSN immediately. I would hate to get out of school and owe thousands when (chances are) your employer will pay for the RN to BSN. So, why not applaud the people who decided to better their life by returning to school to get an ADN.

I just think that as nurses we have better things to do than backbite. I have worked with LPN's that are better nurses than I'll ever be, and 1 year BSN's with a first BS degree in fine arts, (concentration in sculpture!) who became the go-to guy for difficult IV sticks. I don't care what the letters after your name are. We need to work together to make nursing better for ALL nurses, with better staffing ratios and more say over our working conditions. The push to make MSN's or BSN the only "real " nurses will just give management the ammo they need to say that mandatory staffing ratios are unreasonable. as there aren't enough (MSN or BSN) "real "nurses to go around.

I just think that as nurses we have better things to do than backbite.

I think discussing the entry requirements for nursing is useful, even if not immediately so. If someone is advocating for one set of requirements over another, that's not "backbiting." It's true that emotions and defensiveness often get the better of us, some insensitive things are said and some toes get stepped on. However, discussions such as these can also help facilitate understanding. I'd rather have people's assumptions put out there so they can get feedback on them as opposed to not discussing them at all.

The push to make MSN's or BSN the only "real " nurses will just give management the ammo they need to say that mandatory staffing ratios are unreasonable. as there aren't enough (MSN or BSN) "real "nurses to go around.

You have a point about the difficulty of staffing with a change in educational requirements. I think the use of the term "real" nurses isn't necessary. Previously, physical therapists and social workers needed a bachelor's degree to practice, now they need a graduate degree. That doesn't mean that PTs and SWs educated prior to current standards weren't "real." Again, I'm not advocating a change in RN licensing requirements. I'm just wanted to point out that those who do advocate such a change aren't necessarily saying that current nurses aren't "real" or aren't good practitioners.

So what again is the different approach? I don't see it.

By making BSN entry level we are in fact limiting our own job possibilites and making our working conditions worse? Please give me facts to back this up.

+ Add a Comment