Any ADN-BSN programs without ridiculous papers? - pg.17 | allnurses

Any ADN-BSN programs without ridiculous papers? - page 17

Taking my 1st ADN-BSN class. Thinking of dropping it with only 1 week left. 1st class and already a 6 to 8 page paper. A concept analysis of 1 of the following 4 words: Caring, Hope, Trust, or... Read More

  1. Visit  Susie2310 profile page
    0
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    The BSN isn't about becomeing a better nurse. I think I got dumber getting a BSN as compaired to the training I could have used that time for. There was little nursing related content in my BSN program and absolutly no content related to my area of nursing. The level of discourse was pathetic. In particular the portion of the program aimed at teaching cultural awareness was pathestic. Maybe OK for a kid who never left their little all white small town but for a man who has spend years living abroad it was supeficial. Not just me either. My friends and co-workers complain about the same thing and we didn't all go to the same school. I didn't go to a fly-by-night online school either. I went to a well respected state university with a real school of nursing offering a variety of advanced practice programs at the MSN and DNP level.
    The above is your own post where you complained about the quality of your program, i.e. "... little nursing related content ...,"; "... absolutely no content related to my area of nursing."; "The level of discourse was pathetic. In particular the portion of the program aimed at teaching cultural awareness was pathetic."

    Your own negative experience in your program plus the move towards BSN does not mean ADN-BSN/BSN programs are generally of poor quality. I refer to your statements from posts you made on this thread below:

    "*** No, I have complained about the qualiety of BSN programs in general, not my program in particular. Besides I want to a highly rated and respected program."

    "*** Oh I don't doubt it did that for you but that doesn't have anything to do with my point. Makeing you a more rounded person and opening your eyes to a world beyond nursing is not the reason for the push for BSN required."
    Last edit by Susie2310 on Apr 3, '13
  2. Visit  ixchel profile page
    2
    The BSN contains different classes than the ADN. There IS a difference in the degrees. My BSN has leadership, research methods, and required electives. I don't know if this is just a local thing but I have not seen any ADNs with those classes.

    As for the rest, the previous poster addressed it well.

    On a side note, I can't tell if you are calling me an idiot for feeling my program is hard. I'm glad you found your program easy. I will just leave it at that because you are very much in the minority with that feeling and you are not coming across very nicely.
    macawake and wooh like this.
  3. Visit  ixchel profile page
    1
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** Uh, What? I never said any such thing. I went to a very good BSN program. Ranked in the top 25 nursing schools by US News and World Report. To me it is telling that such a highly rates and respected program was like that. I wonder what other programs are like, in particular the high cost, for profit online only programs.
    To me saying a program is among the best is like saying one is among the best surfers in all of North Dakota. It might well be true but you haven't said much.
    This is one massive contradiction. You tell me you never said your program was bad, and then you say it's pointless to say it was good. Can you simply admit that your own personal experience has tainted your opinion if BSN and admit you may be wrong in your assumptions? You have multiple people on this thread sharing their experiences that are contrary to your own and you insult them by saying nursing isn't hard and the BSN is a waste in the grand scheme of things.
    macawake likes this.
  4. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
    0
    The above is your own post where you complained about the quality of your program, i.e. "... little nursing related content ...,"; "... absolutely no content related to my area of nursing."; "The level of discourse was pathetic. In particular the portion of the program aimed at teaching cultural awareness was pathetic."
    *** Yes! And that program is rated among the better programs.

    Your own negative experience in your program plus the move towards BSN does not mean ADN-BSN/BSN programs are generally of poor quality.
    *** OK.
  5. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
    1
    Quote from ixchel
    On a side note, I can't tell if you are calling me an idiot for feeling my program is hard.
    *** I don't think you are an idiot and didn't mean to imply that. I apologize.
    Esme12 likes this.
  6. Visit  Orca profile page
    1
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    Also consider that many community colleges offer part time and evening and weekend program options that I have never heard offered in an accelerated BSN program. This makes it possible for working people, people who might not be able to devote 100% of their lives to nursing school to become nurses.
    This is precisely why I went the ADN route. There were several BSN programs in the area where I lived at the time. I ruled out the private universities due to cost (I paid out of pocket). The ones at public universities expected me to be available basically all day every day, and I was not independently wealthy or living with my parents, so quitting work was not an option. An ADN program in my area developed a program especially for people like me, people who had to work while attending school. Our classes and clinicals were held on evenings and weekends. It is the only practical way I could have gone to nursing school.

    Time-wise it would have been about the same one way or the other, because I had a BA in psychology before I went to nursing school, so I wouldn't have needed filler credits to get my degree. Had I been able to go the BSN route, I would likely have attended the same university where I got my BA, so acceptance of credits wouldn't have been a problem either.
    PMFB-RN likes this.
  7. Visit  hodgieRN profile page
    3
    I think the studies that show better clinical outcomes with BSN's vs ADN's is hog wash. Of course, the people that are conducting the study are going to say that BSN's are better than ADN's. There's no ADN's who are conducting studies, so the idea of a ADN being inferior is completely biased. Nurses look down on the other nurses that don't have the same degree as them. BSN's think ADN's should have BSNs, Masters think BSNs should have their masters, and now, by hearing all of the recommendations from the board of nursing, doctorates are saying that a masters should be a doctorate. My BSN will help me with a managerial role, but it has not improved me at the bedside. I got better with experience and by testing myself with standardized exams and certifications. So, when I hear that a bunch of suits conducting a study that shows ADN's are inferior to BSN's with clinical outcomes, I laugh. Really...there's no bachelor prepared nurses that suck at the bedside? It's just the ADNs who bring it down for the rest of us?

    For years, people have been saying that ADN's and BSN are the same at the bedside. Now, it's changing all of a sudden. I hear the same complaining between DNP's and ARNP's. Education does not equal competency. I know LPN's that can run circles around BSN's.

    The issue is not better clinical outcomes. The issue is better patient satisfaction. That's what is driving this. We have moved away from caring for patients and become a business with clients. A BSN is not going to stabilize the sick better than an ADN. A BSN is not going to care for a trauma pt better than an ADN. But, the public does like hearing that a hospital only has nurses with a bachelors. Everybody is happy and the reimbursement flows in. If I was a pt, I don't care if the practitioner has an ARNP or a doctorate. What I want to know is can you do your job? It seems the best thing for a pt is not saving lives, but whether or not they have a smile on their face as they go down hill. If I am dying, you can give me a mean nurse... if you can do your job well and save me, then we are good.

    It also has to do with how nurses are prepared. The reason a bachelors does not improve clinical outcomes is this...Jean watson is not going improve my ability to care for a pt with a head injury. If nursing was more medically based, then I would have a completely different opinion. If I went back for my BSN and they prepared me with differential diagnosis, advanced assessement (not just stick me in with first year assessment, but real advanced assessment), and in-depth medical training, imagine how much better nurses would be at the bedside. But, we learn jean watson and write papers on "evaluation perspectives across cross cultural spectrums within opinions that favor conflict resolution." Ethics was great, research was great, the electives were great, but they have to float in the nursing theory world and just side track and side track. Thats why ADN's are sour with the idea of going back to school. It's not going to do anything at the bedside. I went back because I wanted to. I like school. But if I didn't have the time or money, I wouldn't be happy. But patients will be satisfied...I guess that's more important than saving the life of your family member.
    DizzyLizzyNurse, chevyv, and PMFB-RN like this.
  8. Visit  classicdame profile page
    1
    anyone receiving a baccalaureate degree in any field should be able to communicate their thoughts. Nursing is so much more than tasks. Writing helps us learn to sort of the important concepts that need to be explored. Emotional intelligence requires the ability to apply all sorts of communication skills. I am ashamed of some of the things I read that nurses have documented.
    macawake likes this.
  9. Visit  BostonFNP profile page
    3
    Quote from hodgieRN

    I think the studies that show better clinical outcomes with BSN's vs ADN's is hog wash. Of course, the people that are conducting the study are going to say that BSN's are better than ADN's. There's no ADN's who are conducting studies, so the idea of a ADN being inferior is completely biased.

    Really...there's no bachelor prepared nurses that suck at the bedside? It's just the ADNs who bring it down for the rest of us?

    The issue is not better clinical outcomes.

    Ethics was great, research was great, the electives were great...... It's not going to do anything at the bedside.

    I feel compelled to respond to a couple of things here:

    1. The "people conducting the study" can not simply "say" that BSNs are better than ADNs. That is not how research work nor is it what the paper actually says. The study found that better clinical outcomes were associated with hospitals with higher percentages of nurses with advanced degrees. People can be biased but the data and statistics is not biased; to be published in a peer-reviewed publication (in this case a major medical journal) all bias must be removed. If you can find so e evidence of bias through your own interpretation of the data I would be interested in hearing/discussing it.

    2. We are not talking about individuals. The are always outliers: great ADNs and horrid BSNs. We are taking, as least in a research sense, about aggregates.

    3. I strongly disagree about clinical outcomes not being paramount. Even from a financial perspective, reimbursements are predicated on clinical outcomes.

    4. You mention some aspects which were "great". These did not help at the bedside? If I had to blindly choose a nurse based on whether they had taken ethics and research, I would pick the one that had. You wouldn't?
    NRSKarenRN, MrChicagoRN, and macawake like this.
  10. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
    0
    Quote from BostonFNP
    If I had to blindly choose a nurse based on whether they had taken ethics and research, I would pick the one that had. You wouldn't?
    *** I would pick the one with certification. If my family member where in the ICU and without knowing anything more about the nurse than the letters on his badge I would choose the RN, BSN, CCRN over the RN, BSN.
    Certification tells me that the nurse has at least some experiences and knows about that area of nursing. Outliers excepted.
    Last edit by PMFB-RN on Apr 5, '13
  11. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
    2
    Quote from classicdame
    I am ashamed of some of the things I read that nurses have documented.
    *** I am often amused at what I read in physicians notes. Physicians are often held up as the model of the highly educated person and yet many of them can't spell any better than I can and seem to have never taken an english class.
    I don't see it as much now with EMR but back in the day of the hand written progress note it could be bad. As a person who can't spell I am lucky that all of our hospital computers have Word on them. I write my notes in Word then cut and paste them into our EMR. Been a lifesaver. I wish I could do that when posting to AN but I am usually writing from my phone while waiting for a hair cut, or to pick my kids up from school or something similar.
    DizzyLizzyNurse and chevyv like this.
  12. Visit  Susie2310 profile page
    2
    Quote from BostonFNP
    I feel compelled to respond to a couple of things here:

    1. The "people conducting the study" can not simply "say" that BSNs are better than ADNs. That is not how research work nor is it what the paper actually says. The study found that better clinical outcomes were associated with hospitals with higher percentages of nurses with advanced degrees. People can be biased but the data and statistics is not biased; to be published in a peer-reviewed publication (in this case a major medical journal) all bias must be removed. If you can find so e evidence of bias through your own interpretation of the data I would be interested in hearing/discussing it.

    2. We are not talking about individuals. The are always outliers: great ADNs and horrid BSNs. We are taking, as least in a research sense, about aggregates.

    3. I strongly disagree about clinical outcomes not being paramount. Even from a financial perspective, reimbursements are predicated on clinical outcomes.

    4. You mention some aspects which were "great". These did not help at the bedside? If I had to blindly choose a nurse based on whether they had taken ethics and research, I would pick the one that had. You wouldn't?
    In regard to the prominent study I believe you are referring to, a nurse on this forum posted some time ago that he/she was part of a panel for his/her state that reviewed the study and rejected the conclusions of that particular study for specific reasons he/she listed, and on that basis the panel determined not to proceed with implementing BSN for entry in to practice in his/her state.

    I disagree with you that people can be biased but the data and statistics is not biased. Data and statistics can certainly be biased. To give just a few examples, from sampling methodology and size of sample, type of study: quantitative or qualitative, statistical techniques used, formulation of hypotheses, steps used to determine if a relationship exists and strength of a relationship i.e. correlation, and the fact that correlation is not causation, there are many opportunities for bias in the data and statistics in a study, even if the mathematical computations are calculated correctly. Peer review is the evaluation of works (in this case, nursing research) by people at a similar level to the person/s producing the work for the purpose of spotting mistakes: It is method of self-regulation, and does not guarantee correctness or certainty in the work. Review by one's peers opens the possibility for many biases.
    Last edit by Susie2310 on Apr 5, '13
    morte and hodgieRN like this.
  13. Visit  chevyv profile page
    2
    I think many of the required ADN to BSN courses are about the almighty dollar. I talked about having to take nursing assessment again for the BSN completion degree and I felt it was overkill. I still feel the same way. Basically, it is the same course complete with the cotton ball to the cheek and close your eyes and sniff the cofee beans.... This is fine except I have never seen a staff RN do any of this. NP's I've seen during physical exams perform all of what I learned in the ADN and BSN classes.

    My point was just that perhaps they should redo the whole program and gear it towards the RN who is working in the field compared with the traditional student who is not yet a nurse. They seem to mirror each other rather than build on what many of us do daily.
    DizzyLizzyNurse and PMFB-RN like this.


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