Physician Bullying of Nurses Reaching Epidemic Levels

Tenebrae, BSN, RN · May 17, 2015

In regards to the OP

Never had a trouble with doctors.

allnurses Guide · May 17, 2015

In regards to the OP
Never had a trouble with doctors.

Me either. Not real bullying.

A bad mood? Yep. I've had a few bad moods myself.

That isn't bullying.

RNperdiem, RN · May 17, 2015

Epidemic proportions in bullying? Where have I been the last 20 years that I have never seen anything more dramatic than a mild touch of snappishness from a doctor?

Instrument throwing? Does a doctor want to lose his/her job, and how out of date are these anecdotes?

allnurses Guide · May 18, 2015

In the 1980s I read a newspaper article regarding a trial where a nurse sued a surgeon for $1.00.

Nurses were quoted saying that the physician had thrown a scalpel into the wall more than once. Employees were actually afraid of him.

They filled out incident reports, but he still yelled and threw thing regularly.

The nurse and witnesses testified that the surgeon ordered a sterile packet opened. The wrong packet was opened. The surgeon yelled, "Stupid." and threw the empty plastic packet. It hit the nurse's nose. She sued for pain and suffering. 25 cents for each day it hurt. The judge ruled in her favor and ordered the surgeon to pay $10,000.00 in punitive damages in addition to the dollar she had sued for.

pixiestudent2 · May 18, 2015

In the 1980s I read a newspaper article regarding a trial where a nurse sued a surgeon for $1.00.
Nurses were quoted saying that the physician had thrown a scalpel into the wall more than once. Employees were actually afraid of him.
They filled out incident reports, but he still yelled and threw thing regularly.
The nurse and witnesses testified that the surgeon ordered a sterile packet opened. The wrong packet was opened. The surgeon yelled, "Stupid." and threw the empty plastic packet. It hit the nurse's nose. She sued for pain and suffering. 25 cents for each day it hurt. The judge ruled in her favor and ordered the surgeon to pay $10,000.00 in punitive damages in addition to the dollar she had sued for.

Lol this is probably the best thing I've ever read on the Internet.

Jules A, MSN · May 18, 2015

I'm relieved to read both that it doesn't seem most nurses have had problems with physicians and also that others find the inflammatory, vague statements irresponsible.

Our society is so focused on celebrating the victim role and political correctness that it is an injustice to those who truly have been treated unfairly. It has become common place that making a claim of being bullied actually trumps having proof of such an infraction. Bummer.

Guest219794 · May 18, 2015

A few things:

First of all, if anyone is ever assaulted by another person, they need to call the police, not report it to an inept administrator.

As far as a bullying epidemic? Is there any actual evidence of an increase in bullying? An increase in reporting, or awareness, does not equal an increase in the activity.

And, I really doubt the veracity of the story cited.

"26 percent of nurses had objects thrown at them by doctors."

Does anybody here believe that statistic? 1 in 4???

I am quite sure it is easy to find nurses who find they have been bullied. Just read all the reports here about poor bullied nurses- mostly by other nurses.

Do doctors sometimes bully nurses? Absolutely. But calling it an epidemic, and citing outlandish statistics won't help resolve a genuine problem.

LeO13 · May 18, 2015

I've been working on the floors for over a year now, I have yet to encounter any doctors (hospitalist, surgeons, GI docs, psychiatrist, etc) who have berated me. It can possibly be the way I approach certain doc's with a cool and mellow attitude or just lucky that I've avoided the mean ones so far. I do know some doctors who can be quite a bully to some nurses who work with me, and yet they can be the same ones who would say hi to me in the cafeteria. I'm really interested to see if gender plays a role in this because I'm a guy.

DoGoodThenGo · May 18, 2015

We took the word "epidemic" for title of this thread from the first paragraph of linked article. It was neither our intention nor design to inflame, incite, insult or otherwise cause injury. Certainly did not expect to be attacked for doing so.

Since a majority of the responding posters appear not to have encountered negative behavior from a physician nor likewise witnessed it against other nurses, decided to see what else was out there independent of the Slate article and the book from which it was drawn.

Workplace bullying of general surgery residents by nurses. - PubMed - NCBI

In the interests of full disclosure the above link was provided by: Bully doctor "epidemic" | Student Doctor Network

which was happily provided by a physician friend.

Squidelle · May 18, 2015

It may not always be this pronounced but there is a disturbing dynamic. My brother's friend, who is neurosurgeon, visited with us for the weekend and during a conversation casually referred to instances where he in essence hazed new nurses by telling them they had killed a patient and he also kept on referring to them saying "my nurses" as if they are his underlings. Nothing is universal but there is a pervasive sense of entitlement and privilege among physicians.

Anna S, RN · May 18, 2015

I had docs be rude jerks to me, but I don't think I've ever been bullied by one. I've seen them bully and sexually harass other nurses, though.

calivianya, BSN, RN · May 18, 2015

Does anybody here believe that statistic? 1 in 4???

I don't know; I just might believe it. I would say perhaps 1:4 or more hospitals are rural, and I would also say that nurses in rural areas are more likely to be bullied/abused by physicians. World-class hospitals have no trouble attracting talent, so I believe those sorts of hospitals are more likely to kick misbehaving physicians to the curb. Rural hospitals that have to throw insane amounts of money at physicians to even get them to look their way are a totally different story. In those places, physicians are God.

I got screamed at more times I can count - not just a little impolite, but being called something that rhymes with witch, something that rhymes with punt, etc. I had charts and clipboards thrown at me. I had a physician go up the chain of command at 0300 and call my nurse manager, the nursing director of critical care, and the house supervisor because I called him to tell him his patient was bleeding from a car accident wound and the bleeding wouldn't stop. He refused to give me any orders, just called me an incompentent "punt," and then immediately called me supervisors to try to get me fired. I ended up giving my patient several saline boluses and threw some surgiseal on the wound to try and stop the bleeding. I didn't chart any of it, of course, because I'm sure he would have come after me if I had charted that I'd done something without his orders. They can't 100% prove I did if it I didn't chart it, right?

There were two brothers who were surgeons who had pretty much founded the hospital, and it was well known that you didn't call them in the middle of the night for anything unless you wanted to put your job in jeopardy. They had the administrators in their pockets and they could absolutely get you fired if they didn't like you. I had seen nurses run boluses, even order vasopressors and other meds, all without an order because it was better to totally run the patient's care on your own than call them and risk getting fired.

Several of my coworkers liked working in this environment. One told me once he would rather stay there where he could be a "mini-NP" and diagnose and treat patients on his own instead of working somewhere that physicians had to give orders for meds/treatments. He thought it was really restrictive to have to get a physician's order to do something; that he was perfectly competent enough to treat patients on his own because he had been an ICU nurse for years. I thought he was nuts.

Anyway, places where physicians bullying nurses is an acceptable practice definitely exist. I don't think these places are on the rise, though, but I do believe as long as some rural hospitals have trouble attracting physicians, they will allow the physicians to get away with anything as long as they stay with the hospital. For the record, I have never encountered any kind of abuse at all at my current job. My physicians are wonderful.