How are Schools getting away with pumping out so many new graduates for no jobs? - page 3

Question: How are Schools getting away with pumping out so many new graduates for no jobs? Thoughts: My first thought on this is that there is a lack of education or better yet lack of... Read More

  1. by   MBrickle
    First, most people I know never expected to have to move to get a job... not after my first undergrad degree at least, but then again I am in Boston which is a larger city.

    That being said, my area has an insane number of colleges, many of which are turning out nurses. We also have more hospitals than the average location. I chose to go the ADN route and that is my only issue. It was at the time when the BSN-only protocol was being implemented. My only other option was to pay $50k to do an accelerated program through Mass General. No thanks, I will take my $9k degree that I paid for.

    Despite living in an area that is especially impacted by the nursing shortage, everyone I graduated with got a job within 4 months or so, with the exception of two people who took 7 to 9 months (yet I question their dedication to the job search compared to others.)

    Rest assured, the serious people will stay in nursing, while the others will move on.
  2. by   Esme12
    Simple answer.....greed. The next financial crisis is when the unemployed nurses that took out thousands of dollars in loans for the for profit schools and $50,00 to $70,000 dollar associate degrees....can't pay their loans.
  3. by   akanini
    I live in NY city where it's becoming hard for Asociates nurses to find a hospital job. I have a Bachelors in another field, which doesn't matter for the hospitals. Now with that being said, every new grad, I'm sure, was offered a job, even if its not their dream job. I made $26 as an LPN and my first RN job was offered $30 an hour. BSN wasn't required. I refused the job. While I may be hungry, I'm NOT starving. The point I'm trying to make is, not everyone's first job might be ideal. I was an LPN for four years before becoming an RN and I chose to be picky. I'm sorry. I know my stuff and others have told me I'm a good nurse. I agree with the previous posters that the schools cannot be blamed. Their job is to educate, not dish out jobs. We have to research and make the right choices, NOT rely on a school to find us jobs.
  4. by   subee
    1. Raise the bar for entrance. A semester of organic chem and physics wouldn't kill anyone. Criminal background checks so grads don't
    have to find out AFTER they've graduated that they can't take the NYCLEX.

    2. Up the ante for the RN exam by making it more difficult. Those that can't pass it can take an LPN exam and work as LPN until they
    can pass their exams. It's a little too easy because I'm always flummoxed by nurses who are very experienced who know so little.
    We can't control numbers by limiting programs but we can by demanding smarter students.
  5. by   samadams8
    Quote from Aurora77
    Schools exist to make money. If people are willing to hand over their tuition dollars, the school will take it. It's up to the individual to research the job market where they want to work. I don't feel bad for someone who didn't do basic research and is now paying the price.

    I mean, really, this is absolutely true. There's really no way to dance around this reality. It's a serious problem.
  6. by   samadams8
    Quote from Esme12
    Simple answer.....greed. The next financial crisis is when the unemployed nurses that took out thousands of dollars in loans for the for profit schools and $50,00 to $70,000 dollar associate degrees....can't pay their loans.

    Esmee, that is already happening.

    The answer is simple. You increase standards for entry into the nursing programs. Most schools do this when there is a waiting list and seats are limited. Now if enrollment drops, then they loosen standards to an allowable degree.

    But as long as schools have seats they can easily fill, well, they aren't going to make it tougher to gain entrance into a nursing program. Enough people have to see the market for what it really is right now, and then decide to go into another field. But all the press keeps saying this is a growing area with job security, blah, blah, blah.

    I don't think the nursing shortage will ever be what it once was, at least not for in-hospital, b/c so much has gone to outpatient settings and limited stays. That's the reality that people need to face if they go into this field.

    If they don't mind doing outpatient and homecare, then by all means, apply to nursing school. It has just become too expensive to load people up in hospitals and keep them there.

    So there may be a way, or if the economy opens up somehow--not seeing that in the immediate future, then positions will open up in hospitals. They do have need for at least some degree of more nurses in hospital; but they are restricting and freezing those positions or using PTmers or per diem or even travel nurses due to financial constraints.

    Travel nurses don't get benefit packages from the hospitals. They can use them for a time and be done with them, they will make temporary gigs work rather than hire full-timers for a long duration.

    This is the reality, and people need to face it. But then everyone says, "My daughter or son wants to go into nursing, but nurses are always trying to discourage them." NO. No one wants to discourage them. It's only fair to show the reality, if they will accept it. People are stubborn and do what they want.

    So states should double up on efforts to make acceptances to nursing programs tougher on all levels. They'd be doing people a favor in doing this.
  7. by   nursel56
    Quote from malamud69
    Interesting...this old argument again...seems to me where I live with the hundreds, perhaps thousands of new students each year that are "churned" out as some would lead you to believe, if the problem was so bad I'd be seeing nurses on the side of the road with signs that might read "New grad will work for food..."

    Yet, when I talk to the administrators and people I know in the programs most of the new grads have jobs! Wow seems like the hype goes both ways...
    Nobody here would have reason to "hype" a shortage of nursing jobs. What would be gained by that? We already know the colleges and schools of nursing have a lot to gain. The only reason most of us talk about this at all is to counter-act the avalanche of misinformation ginning media coverage of nursing. There is an unholy alliance between the nurse lobby and popular media that guarantees most of the new grad difficulties never see the light of day.

    Since I've taken an interest in this topic, I read a large amount of nursing shortage related material. One story was a television report. His only source was a spokesperson for the AACN. I attempted to offer him a dose of the real world - and he politely responded that he'd checked back with the same source who reassured him that yes, there really is a nationwide critical nursing shortage. That type of apathy is not at all rare in the rank and file of reporters. Most of them look like they printed off a copy of the AACN Talking Points and signed their name to it.

    I agree that people should do their own research, but the type of research that would yield accurate information about other professions is nowhere near adequate to get the same information regarding the nursing job outlook because of propaganda and a state of flux in the numbers. I'm not ready to take the schools off the hook, especially since most of them are now aware of the new grad situation.

    I guess nursing has now become a job like liberal arts jobs have been for decades where there is a ton of competition and the time to start standing out is on your first day of nursing school.

    Quote from nurseladybug12
    . . .There are many people from many walks of life that have much to offer their future patients. These people are excitedly preparing to enter nursing school, or about to finish school, and some of them may be smarter, more compassionate, more passionate about nursing, and make better nurses than the ones educated before them. It is their right to out-compete you if necessary if that is what you are so worried about.
    It is not staff nurses to blame. It's hospital financial management professionals. It's not personality, it's experience they are looking at. The attitude I'm seeing here (not specifically you nurseladybug) that suggests we have some sort of ulterior motive for writing about the non-nursing shortage is unfair and untrue in my opinion. I'm glad you got a job!
  8. by   msn10
    This is another issue. I had another career before I went into nursing and can tell you that, for generations, people in many (most?) other fields go to college expecting that they will need tomove to where they can get a job when they finish school. Nursing is the only college-level occupation/profession I've ever encountered where large numbers of people routinely expect to be able to go to school and then find employment (not just employment, but their dream job!) without leaving their current location.
    Amen, and now it is the fault of schools that students won't move. Most people do not understand the incredible lengths that reputable schools have to go through to stay accredited, receive grant money, and just stay in business. I work in a city with about 10 nursing schools, it is a bit crazy, but the problem is that there are no BSN schools and very few ADN schools in the majority of our state. There is a nursing shortage in many areas of our state, but these nurses don't want to move 1 1/2 to get a job. I know people in NY who drive that everyday just to get to work.

    We need to act like professionals and move for our jobs if needed. If your life situation does not allow you to move, that is understandable, but you cannot blame the schools for your life situation.
  9. by   CrunchRN
    Hmmmm. I just think many of you are not seeing the bigger impact here is to produce a surplus of nurses and drive down wages. Which is happening right now.
  10. by   elkpark
    Quote from CrunchRN
    Hmmmm. I just think many of you are not seeing the bigger impact here is to produce a surplus of nurses and drive down wages. Which is happening right now.
    Oh, no, I think most of us are aware of that. I certainly am.
  11. by   momology
    And when that student is doing research they should not be misled by false information from that nursing school. Most of the schools in my area stopped lying about the shortage a couple of years ago but have kept the number of grads the same. Which is interesting since they had in the course of a year just before the reality was obvious doubled the size of the graduating class at my state run school and most others. They nursing schools have a vested interest. The professors also cannot re-enter the profession and/or left because of age discrimination.
  12. by   momology
    Please tell us all where these places are. The year i graduated the only recruiters to show up to a job fair at an expensive Catholic university required new grads to do 2 years in Iraq. That opportunity no longer exists.
  13. by   momology
    Since there is a glut of new grads and for that matter nurses the government should immediately eliminate the H1B visa program. Then if that doesn't do the trick of our tax dollars being spent to educate people only to be left in debt with a useless degree then cut back government support of those schools, including loans and pell grants. The lack of compassion and blame the victim attitude I am hearing in this discussion is not what I would expect from this profession.