How are Schools getting away with pumping out so many new graduates for no jobs?

Guest343211 · Jan 9, 2013

Nobody here would have reason to "hype" a shortage of nursing jobs. What would be gained by that? We already know the colleges and schools of nursing have a lot to gain. The only reason most of us talk about this at all is to counter-act the avalanche of misinformation ginning media coverage of nursing. There is an unholy alliance between the nurse lobby and popular media that guarantees most of the new grad difficulties never see the light of day.
Since I've taken an interest in this topic, I read a large amount of nursing shortage related material. One story was a television report. His only source was a spokesperson for the AACN. I attempted to offer him a dose of the real world - and he politely responded that he'd checked back with the same source who reassured him that yes, there really is a nationwide critical nursing shortage. That type of apathy is not at all rare in the rank and file of reporters. Most of them look like they printed off a copy of the AACN Talking Points and signed their name to it.
I agree that people should do their own research, but the type of research that would yield accurate information about other professions is nowhere near adequate to get the same information regarding the nursing job outlook because of propaganda and a state of flux in the numbers. I'm not ready to take the schools off the hook, especially since most of them are now aware of the new grad situation.
I guess nursing has now become a job like liberal arts jobs have been for decades where there is a ton of competition and the time to start standing out is on your first day of nursing school.
It is not staff nurses to blame. It's hospital financial management professionals. It's not personality, it's experience they are looking at. The attitude I'm seeing here (not specifically you nurseladybug) that suggests we have some sort of ulterior motive for writing about the non-nursing shortage is unfair and untrue in my opinion. I'm glad you got a job!

You know, I am shocked that people have stuck their heads in the sand about the current economic situation. What? They think it doesn't touch hospitals? LOLOLOL. Sigh. . .

There are a number of factors going on:

1. The current economic crunch, which sadly, looks like it will only become worse in the years ahead.

2. The cost of healthcare, and the move to outpatient treatment, as opposed to diagnostics and treatments-- in-hospital.

There are other factors, but that's enough for now. The situation is what it is.

NOTE:

"In the early 1990s, outpatient care accounted for only 10% to 15% of hospital revenue, says Guy David, associate professor of healthcare management at the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania. Today, that figure is closer to 60%. It's also a shift that's been happening across the board—sweeping along academic medical centers, community hospitals, for-profit chains and not-for-profit providers alike. And it's showing no sign of slowing."

--Modern Healthcare. August, 2012.

http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20120804/MAGAZINE/308049929

Susie2310 · Jan 9, 2013

I remember, not many years ago, the governor of my state trumpeting a shortage of nurses, and that the government would be increasing funding for nursing education.

Guest343211 · Jan 9, 2013

We must all be constantly reminded that there are many allnurses.com members who are nursing program directors as well as educators.
It's reasonable to assume that many (not all) will post from the standpoint of encouraging more to go into nursing simply because their own jobs depend on high enrollment numbers.
You will see this type of post from some of those individuals:
"follow your dreams"
"you can do it"
"there are endless opportunities in nursing"
or
"you aren't cut out for the job - you should should have known what you were getting into"
"you must have gone into nursing for the money"
"the negative posts are from a small percentage of nurses - most nurses are extremely fulfilled and happy"

While that may be true, you have to also consider that new people coming in--or interested in the field--for whatever reason/s, tell themselves and each other that it's just a bunch of disgruntled, burned out nurses complaining about things. Meanwhile, I literally watched the Nursing Jobs being pulled down in the 100's from hospital websites. In 2008, the big move toward hiring freezes began. Prior to that, you could go to any number of hospital websites and find very long listings for RNs. I heard CNO in major hospitals get real about the hiring freezes since 2008. No one is making this up. No one is just talking out of bitterness or burn out. It is the reality for heaven's sake. Nurses are expensive, and they make a huge bulk of the hospital expenditures. Duh! On top of that, while physicians are considered pull-ins for business--draws, so to speak, nurses are not. That may or may not be changing with the "hype" of Magnet status, etc; but it isn't as much an issue, since people don't stay in that long anymore, unless they are critically ill. And treatment care and costs for the critically ill is outrageously expensive. To be honest, the main thing I am looking for is the skill and expertise of a physician when it comes to certain inpatient treatments and surgeries. So it only makes sense that the doctors can be a draw for the hospitals. . .depending. And while I think all people working with patients should have great bedside manner and excellent listening and communication skills, that's not what is going to tip the scales for me. If I need surgery, I am going with the top of the line adeptness, skill, brainpower, and overall success/survival stats with the physician. Sure, if he or she is a DB with an attitude, that may be an issue, depending, but I am still looking at their surgical skills and success for a particular procedure first and foremost. Other kinds of docs and definitely nurses can't get away with the attitudes, regardless of how talented and skilled they are like surgeons can. At the end of the day, people want the top quarterbacks in their own games, and you really can't blame them. It is nice when you get a surgeon that is well-rounded and sees the stupidity in acting like a DB.

But my point was that overall, nurses, while necessary, are viewed as a huge expense across the board. In this economy, that doesn't work in nursing's favor. From what I have seen, the freezes have gotten worse, with periodic loosening of the freezes--but nothing like the listing that were in place before 2008.

Guest343211 · Jan 9, 2013

I remember, not many years ago, the governor of my state trumpeting a shortage of nurses, and that the government would be increasing funding for nursing education.

Yea, money in the schools' pockets.

netglow, ASN, RN · Jan 10, 2013

Here is some information on Illinois actually projectile vomiting new nurses. Can you believe how many Illinois puts out? Never could be enough positions for new grads.

http://nursing.illinois.gov/PDF/IlApNursingEdProgPassRates01292010.pdf

So, just for RNs roughly @5,000 new grad licensed RNs every year since 2007 or so (when new grad nurse hiring tanked, last half of '07). Boy does that add up. Note the continual addition of new nursing programs even so...

adding this too.

https://www.ncsbn.org/NCLEX_Stats_2012.pdf

KelRN215, BSN, RN · Jan 10, 2013

Question: How are Schools getting away with pumping out so many new graduates for no jobs?
Thoughts: My first thought on this is that there is a lack of education or better yet lack of information discovered by students prior to taking the plunge. Then couple this with all of the public announcements in the media about a "Nursing Shortage"...Next thing you know, everybody wants to get into nursing.
I think that if someone wants to learn the field of nursing, then they should by all means DO IT! Nothing should stop your dreams. What I don't agree with is all of the media exaggeration in regards to a nursing shortage. Dont get me wrong. In locations where there is a nursing shortage it should be stated and addressed. Nursing schools should not be taking advantage of students be perpetuating the lie. Some of the costs to go to accelerated BSN programs is ridiculous...you might as well go to med school at those prices! I think that there should be a law that says that the schools will only be allowed a certain number of students based on the guarantee of a certain amount of new graduate jobs per year for the areas. Also, schools and hospitals should be required to provide residency type jobs after graduation at lower wages. Another option could be for the nursing schools to create an entrepreneurial track for students to have more options.
Nurses are not Doctors, but if doctors had to face this challenge after graduation, do you think that they would risk wasting their money on a slim chance that they would get a job?
-Zenally

They are getting away with it because a school's purpose is not to secure jobs for its graduates. Schools educate students with no guarantee that the education will land them a job. The vast majority of people who graduate with Bachelor's degrees in things like Music, Psychology and Philosophy don't get jobs in their field... does that mean we should ban all Liberal Arts degrees? Of course not and the idea is absurd. The purpose of going to school is to get an education.

sweetnurse786 · Jan 10, 2013

First of all, I do think that schools are cashing on the idea of nursing shortage and in fact there isnt any at this time. Second, as a society we are responsible for allowing the schools to keep increasing their costs of education. The school I went to for BSN is all for profit and I had no idea that they actually graduate about 250-300 students per semester, yes, that many students a semester. They know people are desperate and they will shell out $100k per student. But to be honest, I wanted to become a nurse 6-7 yrs back but could not get into a school and then I was laid off from work and went back into the field of nursing and thank God I got into an accelerated program. I was ok paying the money but didnt realize how stupid the program was..they barely taught us skills ( I did all my homework before going to the school except for finding out how much clinical hours they gave us cause i assumed that every school MUST give x amount of hours per student).

Now being in $150k (loans from before and loans from the nursing degree) debt, I am having a hard time getting a job. Unfortunately, i am a new graduate with a lot of finance/accounting experience, with volunteer experience, have lots and lots of certifications under my belt (I had to shell out a ton of money for that) and I am open to relocating. Now keep in mind, getting a license in different states cost about $300-$400 (license fee, license verification, electronic finger printing, taking extra courses) and then you have to maintain that license even if you decide not to use it...I mean come on, everyone wants to cash on this b.s that there is a shortage of nurses..

Schools want to make money, the government agencies want to make money, certifications/license organizations want to make money...there is absolutely no cap for this. I do believe that the schools need to take a limited amount of students in their programs and I do believe that they need to have a cap of how much they can charge. BTW I must point out that I had a ton of people in my program that were there for wrong reasons (financial stability, security, ok understandable) but those people will not last long in the profession because you do need to be compassionate. And these students are picky about their first jobs..stuck on the idea of working in the hospital their first year which shouldnt matter cause right now, you need experience, anywhere you can get.

I, myself, am open to jobs at LTCs, Home health, community nursing, hospitals, anything, I am open and I want experience. Heck I will work for whatever pay..i just want a job and experience so I can pay my loans. And yes I do believe schools are responsible as well as us students/nurses.

bellamia1015 · Jan 10, 2013

I live in NY city where it's becoming hard for Asociates nurses to find a hospital job. I have a Bachelors in another field, which doesn't matter for the hospitals. Now with that being said, every new grad, I'm sure, was offered a job, even if its not their dream job. I made $26 as an LPN and my first RN job was offered $30 an hour. BSN wasn't required. I refused the job. While I may be hungry, I'm NOT starving. The point I'm trying to make is, not everyone's first job might be ideal. I was an LPN for four years before becoming an RN and I chose to be picky. I'm sorry. I know my stuff and others have told me I'm a good nurse. I agree with the previous posters that the schools cannot be blamed. Their job is to educate, not dish out jobs. We have to research and make the right choices, NOT rely on a school to find us jobs.

Hi I was curious to know why did you turn down the RN job? Was it something specific about the job you did not like? Or is the salary for new RNs higher in New York? Thanks

bellamia1015 · Jan 10, 2013

:):):)

Beautiful Mind RN · Jan 10, 2013

Simple answer.....greed. The next financial crisis is when the unemployed nurses that took out thousands of dollars in loans for the for profit schools and $50,00 to $70,000 dollar associate degrees....can't pay their loans.

Interesting point of view. I am interested as to why you think this might happen. Any articles you read as to why you think this or was this just your own opinion from experience? (No sarcasm attached, I am truly interested).

As for me, I really don't think it will...True, health care might become more evolved because of the reform and that means more restrictions for nurses, not to mention, there will always be a high competition for new grads to get a new job, but I still think we are able to get a job if we put effort into it and look in the right areas. Plus, have the ability to pay off our loans...

Like many have said, the first job might not be the most ideal, but it will certainly be something! :)

dirtyhippiegirl, BSN, RN · Jan 10, 2013

Meh. When my sister didn't get into the x-ray tech school that she applied to, her college career counselor convinced her that she would be able to get a job as a museum curator with a Bachelor's in History. She'll be lucky if she gets a job at a gas station with that degree, but don't tell her that.

Yes, the people who run and work for colleges and universities have a vested interest in enrolling students for potentially useless degrees - including students like my sister who would better benefit from a more practical education.

It's not just nursing.

And, honestly, like someone mentioned earlier -- I feel worse for the people who graduate with law school-sized debt and can't find a job.

Leonardo Del Toro, RN · Jan 10, 2013

One has to remember that before 2008 there was a nursing shortage and a few months later this shortage has disappeared Where did the shortage go? Did the patients went away? To a point yes because of the recession/depression many lost their jobs and health insurance. But that's not the real reason. The real reason we have a glut of nurses right now is because about 20% of inactive nurses showed up to work and literally filled up the void in a instant There is only one thing that keep these nurses working, the lack of jobs elsewhere in our economy. If jobs became available in all areas of our economy we are in for the biggest exodus of nurses ever seen. The 20% could leave faster then they came in. About to retire nurses will retire in large chunks and many other will leave because of the excruciating abusing workplace which nursing has become lately. Hospital chains like Sutter Health are trying to demoralize and take all the benefits from nurses pitting worker against worker and producing a miserable place to work and there are countless others. The only reason nurses don't leave is because they are stuck. If big hospitals continue not to hire nurses it will eventually make it to main stream media that nursing as a profession is not desirable and school enrollment will go down, new grads after looking for 4 years will leave nursing...it's going to be fun to watch just try not to get sick a few years from now...