Sure to Get Flamed for This

[Kyrshamarks]

I am sure I am about to get flamed for posting this, but I feel the need to anyways. I have been seeing these threads talking about bullying and teachers or preceptors hating the students, and new nurses or abusing them because of some perceived slight or injustice. Well guess what?

The world is a hard cold nasty place that does not need to be polite to you or worry whether your feelings got hurt and you feel offended. You need to grow up and realize that the abuse that you claim is rampant, or the bullying that you experience all the time is not their problem, but rather your problem.

I see so many posts about this and I wonder how some of these people have survived as long as they have. School is tough? Deal with it. You think that someone else is getting it easier? Well too bad, they may be but no one ever promised you everything would be fair. You have to learn that there is inequality in life. It's how you overcome that inequality that matters. It teaches perseverance.

Abusive teachers? Maybe they are trying to get the best in you to come out. What you think is abuse maybe is pushing you to your limits, to get you further along in your potential. So your feelings got hurt at school, grow up, feelings get hurt every day.

Your preceptor is unorganized and does not like you and bad mouths you to your manager, and all your patients love you but no one at the hospital sees how great you really are?

Well your preceptor may actually have great time management skill, but when having to slow down and teach someone their job, things do tend to get disorganized. You may be part of the blame there.

Did you ever stop to think that you are the proverbial monkey wrench in a well oiled machine? The need to teach you, and I realize you do need to learn, can be very time consuming. They may tell your manager that you need improving or that you are not advancing fast enough. They may be all smiles to you, because they want to support you and keep you positive, but they need to tell the manager how you really are.

Speaking of orientation, how often have I seen statements that say the other nurses are not supportive and will not answer questions. Have you ever thought that maybe you are asking TOO MANY questions?

After a bit it may seem that you are not retaining the info provided and everyone gets tired of answering the same questions over and over. Part of learning is knowing when to shut your mouth and just watch. It has been said by people wiser than me that the only question you should ask is the question that you already know the answer to. If that does not make sense to you, think about it for a while and you might just be surprised that a light comes on.

So basically what i am saying is grow up and act like the adult that you are. Life is not fair, school is not fair, work is not fair. You just have to learn to deal with it.

[AmyRN303, BSN, RN]

I agree with the gist of what is said in the OP's post, though the tone was a bit harsh.

I do think we live in a "victim mentality" society. Are people mean? Sure they are. I won't even pretend all of them really have your best interest at heart. There are just plain mean people out there and in abundance and they are going to be mean to anyone and everyone they can. The why and wherefore and how they got that way doesn't really matter when you are on the pointed end of their stick.

Here's the thing though. The minute they become your "bully" and you become their "victim", you have just surrendered any and all power you have to change the situation and your perception of it. The breadth of their power over you lies solely in your control. Yes, I know you need the job/class/whatever and yes, I know you may not be able to just walk away. There really, truly are other ways to frame this in your mind to lessen your stress. This is not "blaming the victim". This is handing you YOUR power back to control YOUR feelings. Ultimately you are the only one in charge of how you feel, react, cope and carry on.

So while I feel sympathy/empathy for those who are on the receiving end of a mean person, I feel no desire or need to run in and rescue them. What good would that do? Sooner or later we all need to learn to slay our own demons, internally and externally (so to speak - don't go kill anyone now). YOU have all the power. There are a couple people I work with who aren't my favorite. They are critical and grumpy and threatened by my growth at our place of employment. I don't give them a whole lot of my head space and I most assuredly don't consider them bulliles, simply because that would then make me a victim. I am never a victim because I will never surrender my power to make MY life MINE. There are a lot of tactics to dealing with a mean person. They have been discussed and written about and quoted since time immemorial. Find one that resonates with you and put it into practice. Take back your power.

I canNOT like this enough! LIKE, LIKE, LIKE!

[ktwlpn, LPN]

"The only question you should ask is the one you know the answer to" ??!

When I am mentoring a new nurse I expect her to know where to look for the answers to all of the questions she might have, gather the information independently and after all of that come to me for further discussion. General orientation introduces all new employees to the policy and procedures manuals,they are all shown how to access the information. A new nurse will often feel bullied or attacked when she asks me the same question for the third time and I tell her to look it up.

[Guest219794]

"I am sure I am about to get flamed for posting this, but I feel the need to anyways. I ahve been seeing these threads talking about bullying and teachers or preceptors hating the students, and new nurses or abusing them because of some percieved slight or injustice. Well guess what young un's? The world is a hard cold nasty place that does not need to be polite to you or worry whether your feelings got hurt and you feel offended. You need to grow up and realize that the abuse that you claim is rampant, or the bullying that you experience all the time is not their problem, but rather your problem.

I see so many posts about this and I wonder how some of these people have survived as long as they have. School is tough? Deal with it. You think that someone else is geting it easier? Well too bad, they may be but no one ever promised you everything would be fair. You have to learn that there is inequality in life. It's how you overcome that inequality that matters. It teaches perseverance.

Abusive teachers? maybe they are trying to get the best in you to come out. What you think is abuse maybe is pushing you to your limits, to get you further along in your potential. So your feelings got hurt at school, grow up, feelings get hurt every day.

Your preceptor is unorganized and does not lile you and bad mouths you to your manager and all your patients love you bit no one at the hospital sees how great you really are? Well your preceptor may actually have great time mamngement skills but when having to sdslow down and teach someone thier job, things do tend to get disorganized. You may be part of the blame there. Did you ever stop to think that you are the proverbial monkey wrench in a well oiled machine? The need to teach you, and I realize you do need to learn, can be very time consuming. They may tell your manager that you need improving or that you are not advancing fast enough. They may be all smiles to you, because they want to support you and keep you positive, but they need to tell the manager how you really are.

Speaking of orientation, How often have i seen statements that say the other nurses are not supportive and will not answer questions. Have you ever thought that maybe you are asking TOO MANY questions? After a bit it may seem that you are not retaining the info provided and everyone gets tires of answering the same questions over and over. Part of learning is knowing when to shut your mouth and just watch. It is been said by people wiser than me that the only question you should ask is the question that you already know the answer to. If that does not make sense to you, think about it for a while and you might just be surprised that a light comes on.

So basically what i am saying is gorw up and act like the adult that you are. Life is not fair, school is not fair, work is not fair. You just have to learn to deal with it."

I cried when I read this.

Why are you such a bully?

[Kyrshamarks, BSN, RN]

when i am mentoring a new nurse i expect her to know where to look for the answers to all of the questions she might have, gather the information independently and after all of that come to me for further discussion. General orientation introduces all new employees to the policy and procedures manuals,they are all shown how to access the information. A new nurse will often feel bullied or attacked when she asks me the same question for the third time and i tell her to look it up.

WINNER WINNER!!!

[ixchel]

Bullying is not the bully's problem but the victims? Wow.

I think the OP isn't justifying bullying in this way, but more saying that it's important to stop and reflect on what is being said and done that is so upsetting. I'm almost a month in on my first job in nursing. I had a day recently where at first, I was so incredibly angry at my preceptor for throwing me to the wolves. Thankfully I had a couple of days to think things over before going back and, while I do wish some things could have gone differently, I should have said something when I needed help, and I'm able to see that the overall point in the experience was genuine - I have things I need to work on. She was realistic in her appraisal and feedback. But I'll tell you, when it all first went down, I was hurt, frustrated and angry. Initially, in my mind, it was HER fault.

OP, your post is direct and honest. The directness might rub some people the wrong way, but I think that's part of the point of your post - to not get worked up about the directness and letdowns. I don't read your post as victim blaming, but more as a time out for the person who feels bullied to think, "wait - is what they're saying possibly right?"

[cardiaccath456]

I'm still in my twenties and I've noticed this mentality amongst young people. I think it's a combination of a lot of things. Our culture as a whole has shifted into being much more "superficial" and self-absorbed. Every person my age has to capture every single moment, no matter how mundane, on facebook, twitter, youtube, etc. At some point, it seemed that people did crazy things just to capture it on youtube. Everyone wants to be special, so I think people have overlooked the basics. I know people that don't know how to iron, cook, balance a checkbook, or communicate respectfully. Many people lack self awareness about their abilities. So when they meet someone who doesn't think they are the greatest worker ever they immediately become defensive.

To me, its just like those people who go on American Idol and think they sound like Mariah carey. When they get trashed, they are stunned because it hadn't occurred to them before then that they weren't good. And the worst part is that no one in their family told them the truth!! Everyone has to tiptoe around people's ego or fragile self esteem. I don't get it.

[motherof3sons]

We have become a poor me society. Abuse is rampant and real---however, instructors that are tough, make students toe the line, send them home for not being prepared, make them cry(which is a whole different subject), fail them for "just one mistake" ect is not abuse. I had instructors that did all of the above---but if they didn't hold high expectations the students would not rise up to meet them.

[tokmom, BSN, RN]

I'm still in my twenties and I've noticed this mentality amongst young people. I think it's a combination of a lot of things. Our culture as a whole has shifted into being much more "superficial" and self-absorbed. Every person my age has to capture every single moment, no matter how mundane, on facebook, twitter, youtube, etc. At some point, it seemed that people did crazy things just to capture it on youtube. Everyone wants to be special, so I think people have overlooked the basics. I know people that don't know how to iron, cook, balance a checkbook, or communicate respectfully. Many people lack self awareness about their abilities. So when they meet someone who doesn't think they are the greatest worker ever they immediately become defensive.

To me, its just like those people who go on American Idol and think they sound like Mariah carey. When they get trashed, they are stunned because it hadn't occurred to them before then that they weren't good. And the worst part is that no one in their family told them the truth!! Everyone has to tiptoe around people's ego or fragile self esteem. I don't get it.

Totally agree with this. I work with a new nurse who has 2 years under her belt. She comes to me for questions and when I tell her what I think, she does the complete opposite of what I say. Or I offer suggestions and she gets angry that I question her judgment. The sad thing is, I'm always right and the patient suffered longer than needed because this nurse, in her eyes, is never wrong. She has always, always been told how cute, and wonderful she is, and when she is told she is wrong...omg..watch out. ATTITUDE.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

it is a lawyer thing, I don't know what the OP means by it...

"The only question you should ask is the one you know the answer to" ??!

Ok, I'm not gonna ask what you meant by that... !

[dudette10, MSN, RN]

When did orienting a new nurse become all about the preceptor's and nurse's relationship? When did it become letting a new nurse sink or swim immediately off orientation?

I do not look at it in the same way because patients--not the new nurse or the over-burdened with- questions experienced nurses--suffer. There is a tendency to expect new nurses to just blossom into independent practitioners in 12 weeks, despite all the research to the contrary.

Let's compare our expectations of new nurses to our expectations of MD interns. MD interns have a co-intern, a second year, an attending, and on-going teaching rounds. Yet, we nurses see, through their orders, that they still make mistakes that we talk to them to correct. Now let's imagine a new nurse in an environment filled with nurses sharing the OP's attitude. The new nurse is essentially alone, judged by the subjective mood of the experienced nurses, and, being human and under a lot of stress, is lacking confidence in her own decision-making and skills. She will still make mistakes, but I would rather she be in an environment that can head mistakes off at the pass than in one where they go unnoticed. This wish isn't to make it easier on the new nurse or the preceptor or the experienced nurses, but to make it safer for patients!!

I'm not talking about spoon feeding new nurses or treating them with kid gloves or feeding preceptors with stressed out orientees to the wolves. I'm talking about a learning environment that puts the patient and patient safety at the center.

The "new nurse tolerance" among preceptors is highly variable. When I was orienting, I had more preceptors than I could count with just as many different teaching styles, and their tolerance levels were also different. It was a very disconcerting learning process for me where my confidence, already on shaky ground, was shot, and I had to build it up again on a daily basis. Although I'm an extremely quick learner and I study on my own, it took me a full 15 months to think "I can do this!" Twelve weeks of orientation compared to 15 months until I was confident enough on my own. Think about that.

I am neither a new nurse nor an experienced one. I am registry, but I work mainly on one floor because that is where my experience is. New nurses come to me with questions all the time. Their questions are never about THEM. Their questions or requests for help are about how they can safely provide care to their patients!!!

Just the other day, a brand new nurse got an assignment that the off-going experienced nurse said was way too heavy for the new nurse just off orientation. The off-going nurse told me that the highly experienced charge would not change the assignment, and she witnessed the charge telling the new nurse that she didn't have time to help. What the **** was that all about??? I'll tell you...that was a charge thinking a tough love approach to the new nurse was the way to go because the charge had the attitude of "me, me, me." Screw the safety of the patients!

When I field questions from new nurses, and depending on the urgency of the question, I will ask them to research or will supervise their psychomotor task or tell them to ask pharm or RT or tell them to review policy...or even take the situation into my own hands with crisis situations and have a debriefing afterward. It's about the patient--not me or them.

[Not_A_Hat_Person, RN]

Yay, another round of "All nurses younger than me are lazy, spoiled, and self-centered."

And "only ask questions you already know the answer to" makes no sense at all.

[dudette10, MSN, RN]

Yay, another round of "All nurses younger than me are lazy, spoiled, and self-centered."

And "only ask questions you already know the answer to" makes no sense at all.

Which is often quickly followed by "experienced nurses are the center of the hospital nursing universe to be obeyed without question and forgiven for lack of social graces, because they are older and wiser and deserving of unearned respect."