MGH is offering new grad ICU internship for $11.44 an hour?

rn/writer, RN · Dec 10, 2011

But what people still aren't getting is that these new nurses are not being treated like typical new grads. They are not expected to take on full assignments and asked to meet all the obligations of the regular staff. They are being given additional education and support not normally available to new grads. Why? Because this is a transitional step between school and independence.

Hospitals spend a lot of money on new grads, and sometimes they see very little return on their investment. Nurses get their magical year in and jump ship. Or, without the support an internship program like this one involves, they get fired or transferred to a unit with less stress. Don't forget, we're talking about ICU training here.

The powers that be have a number of options open to them to prevent pouring training money down the drain.

--Stop hiring new grads, period. An awful lot of places have chosen this.

--Accept new grads with an agreement that they will work for x number of years to justify their training expenses.

--Accept new grads with the understanding that if they quit or transfer before a specified time they will owe x number of dollars to pay back some of their training costs.

--Offer a structured training period like an internship or residency that will greatly increase the new nurse's chances of succeeding, and provide a stipend during the training time that will eliminate the need to either work for the hospital for so many years or pay a large penalty if they quit or transfer.

Prior to approx. 2009, new grads had many more openings to choose from, so, its unrealistic to make comparisons between getting hired then and now. Hospital budgets used to have more fat in them. Now, with everyone trying to run lean, it's easier to say, "No new grads!" than it is to try to find a system that works for everyone. That same streamlined operation means that new grads are far less likely to get good support and reasonable orientation than was common a few years back. People who say, "Well, I managed just fine," might not be taking that into account.

MGH is not trying to get something for nothing. They are offering an open door and a wonderful learning opportunity in exchange for pay that is initially low. But the difference between regular new grad pay (in jobs without the additional education and ICU training) is probably less than the actual cost of providing the internship. And once the internship is complete, the new grads will be more marketable than nurses who sat out the six months because they couldn't find good nursing jobs or those who took jobs in non-critical care settings.

MGH isn't cheating anyone. The grads are getting something quite valuable in return for agreeing to lesser wages. Another hospital put a value of $15,000 on their internship. Despite the fact that the hospital is in Georgia, that's not peanuts.

If a new nurse was paid $27 an hour but had to pay $15,000 for an internship, she'd be no better off than the MGH grads and, in some ways, she'd probably be in worse straits. And that's just for a basic internship. I don't believe it's for ICU training.

And that's the thing. This wouldn't work for everyone, but those who can manage six months of tight funds will receive something wonderful for the sacrifice.

joanna73, BSN, RN · Dec 10, 2011

Those of us who are disagreeing with this are not disputing the internship. That's a great idea. It's the wage. Sorry, but for many nurses that's outrageous. And as a Canadian nurse, I can say it's very different. If employers tried to pay that up here, there would be riots. We wouldn't stand for it, and you shouldn't either.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Dec 10, 2011

The interns at MGH aren't working for free. They may be educated nurses, but they have no experience, so it's not as if seasoned nurses are being offered terrible wages just because the economy is tight. And this isn't a typical job. It's an educational opportunity with a stipend.
One more thing--students in clinicals are not considered working nurses. They have supervision and structure that new grads don't have. Unless they're in an internship program like this one.
If you want to be sad, take a look at this link:
https://allnurses.com/georgia-nurses/...ml#post5929279
A Georgia hospital is also offering an internship program. Do they offer the stipend that MGH gives its interns? They do not. They expect to be paid $15,000 for the opportunity.
If you take the approximately $12,000 the MGH nurses would earn in their six months ($11.44 x 40 x 26) and add $15,000, the value of the internship, you come out with $27,000. That's not too shabby for six months effort.
At the end of the internship--after gaining extra education and acquiring some experience--the MGH nurses will immediately more than double their pay, so, no one's trying to put the squeeze on them just because people are desperate to work.

It's not the internship it's the pay. A nurse with a 4 year education come out of school, passes NCLEX and barely makes over minimum wage. I saw the post about paying the hospital in GA and I was appalled and discusted:devil:. In MA $27,000 is not a decent wage especially with the cost of living. The majority of CNA's fresh out of school make more that that at MGH. It's an insult to our profession and continous calling for "more degrees" and then slap you in the face with that offer. I know of a grad that took that internship did not get a job and didn't spend the kind of classroom time the was infered.

When I graduated school I was paid less as a new grad but we worked without our licenses because it took so long to get results. But I was only paid like $1.50 less per hour.....not hired at significantly less than the aides. That's what I find insulting

joanna73, BSN, RN · Dec 10, 2011

Right Esme. The Aides where I work start at 17.50 an hour. There is no way our Aides would work for 11 an hour. Why should a nurse? I can be a grocery clerk with no experience for 14 an hour. The pay is insane.

dance4life · Dec 10, 2011

In the dance world this is call undercutting. They tell you to dance for less/free for exposure. I am sure they get exposure, but what happens is businesses start thinking everyone is dancing it for less/free. Which as you can see is happening here with other hospitals are starting to do it. Beginning of the forum states this. Hell ya! I would love exposure, but you know I think of the dancers who get paid what they should.

Or, they get what they pay for. I am sure there are very experienced nurses who are looking for jobs that don't even need an orientation to start working. I know New Grads need a chance but this isn't the way to do it. Is it a fact, probably not, but it is an opinion. Kind of like crossing the picket line if you ask me, but not so much. Hope that makes sense.

heron, ASN, RN · Dec 10, 2011

A fair day's pay for a fair day's work. We are not paid to simply exist and wave our license around. The new grads in this program are not yet fully-functioning nurses, they are new grads still in training.

The closest analogy would be to medical residency ... the newly minted MDs are paid ... mainly out of grants from Medicare for graduate medical education ... but the pay is around half what they will be earning as fully licensed physicians.

I suspect that if we add together the $27K in cash with the cost of the education being provided, the real compensation for that six months would be quite a bit more than "respectable". At the end of it, those nurses will have a credential and experience worth quite a bit in this market, even if they don't wind up with a job at MGH afterwards. The MNA did a survey in the 90's on the cost of recruiting and training of nurses ... critical care came in at around $60K (that's a year's pay for me).

Would those who are appalled by this program please tell me why any institution should pay you for the privilege of training you? You're not working as a critical care staff nurse ... just what are you bringing to the table to make you worth full RN pay and $60K's worth of education when you're not even doing basic RN work?

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Dec 10, 2011

A fair day's pay for a fair day's work. We are not paid to simply exist and wave our license around. The new grads in this program are not yet fully-functioning nurses, they are new grads still in training.
The closest analogy would be to medical residency ... the newly minted MDs are paid ... mainly out of grants from Medicare for graduate medical education ... but the pay is around half what they will be earning as fully licensed physicians.
I suspect that if we add together the $27K in cash with the cost of the education being provided, the real compensation for that six months would be quite a bit more than "respectable". At the end of it, those nurses will have a credential and experience worth quite a bit in this market, even if they don't wind up with a job at MGH afterwards. The MNA did a survey in the 90's on the cost of recruiting and training of nurses ... critical care came in at around $60K (that's a year's pay for me).
Would those who are appalled by this program please tell me why any institution should pay you for the privilege of training you? You're not working as a critical care staff nurse ... just what are you bringing to the table to make you worth full RN pay and $60K's worth of education when you're not even doing basic RN work?

The program sounds great but it's not what it's made out to be. When we graduated we got grad pay but it was a fair wage.....after four years of college....and thousands in debt.......I'd expect at least a wage higher than a high school graduate or GED. just saying.... :smokin:

caliotter3 · Dec 10, 2011

One should not equate disagreement with pitiful wages with a demand for full RN wages. There is such a thing as providing a training wage without paying the newly licensed RN lower than CNA wages, or lower than K-Mart wages, or lower than In 'N Out wages.

joanna73, BSN, RN · Dec 10, 2011

First of all, not all new grads and schools are created equal. We were explicitly told that if we could not demonstrate the ability to competently accept a full patient load and perform the skills, we weren't graduating. So there wasn't much hand holding during that last year of full time clinical that I had. You either did it, or they failed you and the expectations were crystal clear. Maybe more schools should do the same.

Secondly, in 2011, 11 dollars is not a reasonable wage.

Either way, we are split on this debate. Some of us do not agree, and we will never agree.

CCL RN, RN · Dec 13, 2011

Would those who are appalled by this program please tell me why any institution should pay you for the privilege of training you? You're not working as a critical care staff nurse ... just what are you bringing to the table to make you worth full RN pay and $60K's worth of education when you're not even doing basic RN work?

Exactly.

CaptScrubs13 · Dec 13, 2011

Does anyone know if this program will be offered again in the future? I agree that

watersamy · Jan 5, 2012

I was recently at MGH and took a look thru their newsletter and saw pictures of the "graduates" from this program. There were lots of RN's here that were stating they got accepted in this program and how excited they were about the opportunity to participate. Unfortunately no one has commented on their experience, if they were offered a regular RN position at the completion, etc., etc. Can someone please enlighten us?