MGH is offering new grad ICU internship for $11.44 an hour?

[DisneybearRN]

I was cruising the hospital websites as I do everyday as a new grad and came across this:

The Department of Nursing at Massachusetts General Hospital is running a New Graduate RN ICU Residency Program for six months from April 2011 to September 2011. RN residents will be hired and trained to work successfully in an intensive care setting.

Qualified applicants MUST have:

- a Baccalaureate of Science Degree in Nursing

- a current MA RN license

- less than 10 months of professional RN experience in a healthcare setting

- completed a clinical practicum in an ICU or experience in a patient assistive role in an ICU.

RN Residents will be eligible for benefits and paid a salary of $11.44 per hour. The schedule will be 40 hours per week with five 8-hour shifts. Day/Night rotation with weekends and holidays required.

11.44 an hour? They can't be serious...can they? They pay their CNAs more!

[CCL RN, RN]

Excellent posts by llg and rnwriter!

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

Just curious, CCL, did you start at 11 an hour as an RN? Probably not. It's a very slippery slope, which will not only affect new grads, but all RN wages. Employers will continue to pay less to anyone and everyone if they can get away with it. That's the problem that many of us have with this.

[rn/writer, RN]

Nursing students complete an unpaid internship....clinicals. I don't understand why nurses don't rally for one another more, instead arguing that hospitals need to save money. We aren't physicians either, and we do not make the money they make, so that argument falls flat.

Clinicals just scratch the surface of each particular area, the way med school does with docs. There is no in-depth training, just an introduction to the basics.

I would rally for nurses if I thought they were being treated unfairly, but I don't believe that's the case with the MGH internship program. This isn't a cost-saving measure being implemented because hospitals need to save a buck. It's a direct response to the fact that too many new grads get expensive training and then leave before the hospital sees a return on its investment. If fewer new grads viewed their first-year jobs as just a stepping stone to something better, there might not be a reluctance on the part of hospitals to hire them.

At least MGH is finding a way to work with new grads. Six months is not a long time to invest in your future marketability. These interns will come away with a fantastic education and will be able to go anywhere and hold their heads high. And when they are finished, they'll jump right up to a competitive wage.

The hospital is giving them something in return for the low starting wage--a furtherance of their education in a structured environment and specialized training in ICU skills.

As far as comparing nurses to docs, no, nurses don't make as much, but we're talking a six-month internship as opposed to the 3-7 years that a doc puts into a residency.

To me, rallying for nurses means looking at the whole picture. If this were just a low-paying job because the hospital was putting the screws to people who were desperate for employment, I would be railing against it. But there is a reward for the sacrifice--a fabulous educational opportunity in exchange for low-level pay for a short time.

If this were viewed as an extra course (which it is) with a stipend, I would hope people could see the value of doing it and not just focus on the pay. If I were in the shoes of the interns, I would look at it as an investment.

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

You make some valid points rnwriter. However, after 4 years of clinical, and 20 years work experience, I personally would not work anywhere for 11 an hour. That undermines nursing as a profession, and 6 years ago, no one would have dreamed paying that low. Not to mention, I wouldn't be able to pay rent.

The very fact that some nurses advocate for this is scary. Thankfully, I work in a Unionized environment, so my employer could never get away with that.

[rn/writer, RN]

You make some valid points rnwriter. However, after 4 years of clinical, and 20 years work experience, I personally would not work anywhere for 11 an hour. That undermines nursing as a profession, and 6 years ago, no one would have dreamed paying that low. Not to mention, I wouldn't be able to pay rent.

The very fact that some nurses advocate for this is scary. Thankfully, I work in a Unionized environment, so my employer could never get away with that.

Of course, you wouldn't accept a position like this. You have experience. This is for new grads only. And some of today's new grads have far less than four years of clinicals. Some of the BSN grads have less clinical time than ADN grads, and they are far from ready to hit the floor running. Some nurses graduate having never started an IV or done many other necessary tasks because clinical instructors had overloaded groups.

To continue to look at the internship like it's a slave wage for a regular job meant for regular nurses is to miss the point. This isn't a job, per se. It isn't advertised as one. It's a time-limited educational opportunity that compensates in a combination of wages and further education. If this were offered to regular nurses as a way to put the squeeze on desperate people, I'd be right there with you protesting against it.

At least consider the idea that MGH is reaching out to students and trying to get them up to speed clinically when so many facilities are just saying, "New grads stay away!" But not even they can do this without taking finances into consideration. The choices are programs like this, 2-3 year obligations to work for the hospital, or a repayment penalty if the person decides to jump ship after getting the training. Of the three, this seems the most workable.

No one, least of all me is saying that this is a living wage for a nurse who is clinically ready to take her place as a staff nurse. If MGH weren't offering something exceedingly valuable in return for the low pay, I'd agree that the interns were being cheated. But that just isn't the case with what was explained about this program.

[coffeegirl7]

This internship, is just that...AN INTERNSHIP. And it's paid...not everyone could do it. But for some, who are in a financial position to do it, will survive the 6 months, and be in a better position than their peers. The market for nurses right now is not a good one, if you are able to gain intensive ICU experience, and can afford to accept the stipend offered, you need to go for it as a new nurse. The beauty of experience is that no one can take it away from you. Everyone makes valid points about the rate of pay here...no one has said the rate seems "equitable, or fair", but it is a paid internship-not a permanent job. If needed, after the 6 months, these new grads may be hired at MGH, and if not, could find a positon at another facility making more money, now that they have some experience. You get paid for what you know how to do...that is life, like it or not.

I would love to hear from some of the new grads who are in the internship and see how it's going...I hope they are all having a great experience :)

[llg, PhD, RN]

Great posts, Miranda.

People should not look at the MGH program as an "RN job." That's not what it is. The participants are not given full RN responsibilities. The MGH program is an educational program -- on in which new grads are given additional additional classes and closely supervised clinical practice designed to better-prepare them for professional practice.

Given the number of new grads who struggle with their transition from student to practicing professional -- and the number who consider their first job as a short-term stepping stone to something else -- I think the whole profession should be seriously considering this type of model.

[CCL RN, RN]

Just curious, CCL, did you start at 11 an hour as an RN? Probably not. .

No, of course not. I got hired on as a staff RN when I was a new grad. A real job. I received a very expensive orientation. I repaid that by remaining loyal to that job for 5 years.

This is not, and I repeat, NOT, a staff RN job. it is an internship.

The fact that people can not see that (or refuse to believe that) boggles my mind.

[CCL RN, RN]

- I think the whole profession should be seriously considering this type of model.

Me too.

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

Just as it boggles my mind that internship or not, MGH would pay so little. The aides I work with make double that. Like I said, if not for poor economic times, they wouldn't dream of that pay.

Clearly, we must agree to disagree. You can advocate for an internship all you like, which no one is disputing. It's the pay that's insulting. Grocery store clerks make more, too.

[rn/writer, RN]

It doesn't take $50,000 to $100,000 to train a grocery store clerk or a CNA. They can probably "repay" their employer's investiment in them in a month or less. If someone made it unlawful to offer such an internship, seems likely that MGH would then switch to the response that most other places have given to new grads--don't call us, we'll call you.

Would that be more satisfactory?

In six months' time, the new grads who turn up their noses at this opportunity (I'm not talking about those for whom it isn't a good choice) won't be any smarter or more marketable (in fact, they'll be even less so because another class will have graduated by then), but, by gum no one will have "taken advantage" of them.

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

As I said, we'll have to agree to disagree. Some people agree with their philosophy, some don't.