"LPNs should be done away with altogether"

Nurses LPN/LVN

Published

As an offshoot to the News article about nursing education, an opinion was brought to the board that LPNs are not adequately prepared to care for patients, and that their education is not strenuous like an RN program is. Having been in the field for awhile, what is your opinion on the differences between LPNs and RNs, other than the legally different aspects (LPNs cannot do initial assessments or IVs in my state for instance)

I'm not looking to start trouble, but rather discuss the topic in an area other than an unrelated thread.

Differences in LPNs vs RNs (educationally, functionally, intellectually)

Best way to combat any possible negatives of the above

Advice for an LPN student (who is too far through her program to just throw it out and start over in an RN program - already applied for an LPN to RN program starting Jan 2010)

Should I really expect to run into attitudes in the workplace about my not being worthwhile as an employee and a care provider because I chose the path that I have? How do you handle it if you do?

There is a local small rural hospital that pays incredibly well for LPNs right out of school and who has been trying very hard to recruit us during clinicals... am I going to be inequipped to care for patients there because of my education? I would never want to get into a situation where patient care was compromised because my education was lacking somehow...

Jennifer

~slightly confused and frustrated LPN student

I will really miss one particular LPN who has been on my unit for 30 years. Regina is the best nurse ever! My hospital system is letting all LPNs go as of May 1st.

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What confuses me is how employers can get by with paying RN's more than LPN's if they are basically doing the same job.

Also, why would a LPN agree to do a certain job if the RN next to her was doing the same job for much for money?

If there is no difference in what each can do, wouldn't it be illegal to pay on different scales?

When a woman has the same job duties as a man it is totally illegal to pay her less per hour just because "men have always earned more than women".

Something here doesn't add up!

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Specializes in Cardiac, Maternal-child, LDRP, NICU.

I was an lpn for five years before getting my RN four years ago. I worked in hospitals as an LPN and was sick of asking an RN to do my IVP meds, my intial assesment and so forth. I like to work independently so i went back to school and finished my RN. While in school for RN i realized there is infact a big difference between the RN and LPN programs. RN program teaches you to be more of a critical thinker, to look at lab values of pt, assesing your pt more carefully and looking for any unusual cues, also there is much more pharmacology in RN program then in LPN program. So yes there is a difference between an RN and LPN. There is a reason why LPN's cannot do IVP meds or there first intial assesment. Members of state board of nursing are not stupid and there is a reason for what's in your state practice act for job description between an lpn and RN. Maybe if you are a good learner you can have these skills with your years of experience but i still think there's more theory and detailed learning in an RN program ALSO this does not neccessarily mean all RN's ARE SMART!!!!!!

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What confuses me is how employers can get by with paying RN's more than LPN's if they are basically doing the same job.

Also, why would a LPN agree to do a certain job if the RN next to her was doing the same job for much for money?

If there is no difference in what each can do, wouldn't it be illegal to pay on different scales?

When a woman has the same job duties as a man it is totally illegal to pay her less per hour just because "men have always earned more than women".

Something here doesn't add up!

There is a difference in what each can and can not do based on the scope of practice as defined by state board.

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Specializes in psych. rehab nursing, float pool.

:banghead::barf01:

just my own opinion on the whole subject

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
I was an lpn for five years before getting my RN four years ago. I worked in hospitals as an LPN and was sick of asking an RN to do my IVP meds, my intial assesment and so forth. I like to work independently so i went back to school and finished my RN. While in school for RN i realized there is infact a big difference between the RN and LPN programs. RN program teaches you to be more of a critical thinker, to look at lab values of pt, assesing your pt more carefully and looking for any unusual cues, also there is much more pharmacology in RN program then in LPN program. So yes there is a difference between an RN and LPN. There is a reason why LPN's cannot do IVP meds or there first intial assesment. Members of state board of nursing are not stupid and there is a reason for what's in your state practice act for job description between an lpn and RN. Maybe if you are a good learner you can have these skills with your years of experience but i still think there's more theory and detailed learning in an RN program ALSO this does not neccessarily mean all RN's ARE SMART!!!!!!

I do hope that RN programs are more in depth than an LPN program. I have some friends that went into the bridge program my college offered and they told me otherwise...they actually stated that they felt the only difference was more careplans (I admit that this can be just their perspective or maybe they skewed the truth...who knows??). I am not saying this to argue your point (so, please do not think I am saying the contrary, because I clearly do not know); I just believe that this sorely depends on the school. I have also had friends that entered into the RN program at the same community college I completed my LPN program and many of them purchased LPN textbooks because they felt that it was 'too much to sift through' and graduated with the same marks as their classmates. And, this school skimmed through pharmacology within their courses, while we had a seperate one. We also learned IVPB care and are expected to do these skills in my hospital, including initiating IV lines. In addition, my program taught us how to read and interpet lab values and do this at work each time I teach patients and before I have to administer medications...at least to the point where I can present a legitimate question to the provider or the RN about whether or not the treatment is appropriate for the patient.

The problem, to me, is that the scopes of practice between the states and within the facilities (even with a broader scope of practice that some states allow) cause so much confusion that no one knows what to do. It is almost like the LPN position was created for some reason, but became a big monster that suddenly no one knows what to do with it...too difficult to totally suppress altogether, but, cannot make it totally disappear.

As I said previously, these comments are not made to initiate an argument on your post, these are just my observations that I wanted to share, and hope that there is no offense taken.

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
Well, this is a touchy subject for me. I am the director of nursing at a nursing home, and we employee primarily LPNs. Most of mine are amazing, and I would match them to many RNs that I have known. I have never been an LPN. I was an aide, then got my ADN, then a BSN, and am now working on a MSN. The classes I am now taking are all online. Recently this discussion came up and I nearly got "thrown out" of class b/c of my opinion. On the discussion board posting, I asked the question, "If we do away with the LPNs, then who is going to do the work???????" Now, obviously, I know that RNs work exceptionally hard, but it is different work than the LPNs do. RNs are not going to want to do the get-down-dirty work that my LPNs do. They don't want to spend half their shift passing pills. No one could answer my question. They just lambasted me for "lowering the standards of the nursing profession", etc. My LPNs don't lower anything. I was offended for them.

So, I say all you LPNs be proud of your accomplishments and of what you do. I, for one, would not want to be without you.

I will really miss one particular LPN who has been on my unit for 30 years. Regina is the best nurse ever! My hospital system is letting all LPNs go as of May 1st.

Thank you so much for acknowledging that we do make a difference.:yeah::up::heartbeat

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I definitely agree that there are many wonderful LPNs, but I can't really wrap my head around the part about RNs not wanting to pass pills. Huh? Maybe that's just a LTC facility thing...at my hospital, RNs pass many pills. Nobody else there to do it.

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
I definitely agree that there are many wonderful LPNs, but I can't really wrap my head around the part about RNs not wanting to pass pills. Huh? Maybe that's just a LTC facility thing...at my hospital, RNs pass many pills. Nobody else there to do it.

I guess I have difficulty with that as well. :o

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Specializes in EMS, ER, GI, PCU/Telemetry.
I definitely agree that there are many wonderful LPNs, but I can't really wrap my head around the part about RNs not wanting to pass pills. Huh? Maybe that's just a LTC facility thing...at my hospital, RNs pass many pills. Nobody else there to do it.

the way i interpreted that comment was that, LPNs often work in suboptimal conditions in LTC and it would be hard for her, as a DON, to find an RN wanting to work under the same conditions.

i work in a hospital, my assignment is usually 6-1 but have had up to 8 patients.. yes, it's very busy and lots of meds to pass, but it doesn't compare to what i've seen in LTC.

i've never worked in LTC, but i have friends that do and have also done some clinicals there. one LTC we did a rotation at had 80 residents or so, with two LPNs to staff the whole place... they each had to pass meds and do treatments/dressings, blood glucoses with coverage, take off orders and be available for anything else on fourty patients! some of those residents were on 15, 20 and 25 different meds! i know not all LTC's are like that, but i think the poster's point was that an LPN is more likely to accept those working conditions since jobs for us in hospitals are becoming more and more slim.

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Specializes in Geriatrics/ALZ, MDS/CPC.

I have been an LPN for 13 years. I have worked mostly in LTC. I love my job most days. I did take a job at a local hospital for about a year, working on a med-surg floor, because I feared I would be losing some of my "skills". WOW! Big difference. In LTC I could do everything an RN could do except push IV meds. At the hospital I did routine meds (no narcotics or prn meds), tx's and fingersticks. I was bored silly! The senior RN's on the floor (2 of which had been employeed there well over 30 yrs) could not believe the knowledge I had of wound care, and medications and possible drug interactions, or of taking care of Alzheimer's pts who had come in for some type of surgery, usually an ORIF of the hip. One of those "senior nurses" literally cringed when she found out what my pt load was in LTC - usually 30 pts to 1 nurse. One of the nurses started coming to me instead of looking up a med she didn't know in the drug book. Said it was much faster as I was a "walking medical dictionary" Of coorifice, as long as I have been a nurse there has always been talk of "doing away with us" or changing our duties to "direct patient care" aka nurse aide duties. The only problem I think I have ever had in my current job is that the paramedics/EMT's that transfer patients to our facility from some of the larger area hospitals make a point of wanting the "RN" accepting the patient. I even had one jerk insist that I go get the "RN" because he was not going to report off to an "LPN". Without LPN's I don't know who would take care of the patients at my facility. There are 3x's as many LPN's to RN's. LTC is changing rapidly. It is not a place to grow old gracefully anymore. Our patients are younger and younger each year. We are now taking more acute patients with multiple medical problems. Our medicare wing is practically an ICU step-down unit. We have seen an influx of short-term care also. Some patients are in and out like a revolving door, staying 20 days or less. Usually post-op patients. We do IV therapy on at least 1/2 of those patients. I worry everyday that we will "be done away with altogether" and would love to go back to school to get my RN, but there are no bridge programs near where I live and with 2 small children and a terminaly ill father-in-law to take care of there are not enough hours in the day. Plus there is the issue of financing. If anyone can suggest a bridge program in the Il/Mo area I'd be grateful. Also , here's a thought, if LPN's are "done away with" shouldn't we have the opportunity to at least try to get our RN degree before they cut us out completely? Good topic, by the way.:twocents:

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Specializes in Gas, ICU, ACLS, PALS, BLS.

I feel LPN's are a true asset to not only nursing, but also healthcare. I'm an LPN myself in a BSN program We had the option to sit for the NCLEX-PN half-way through our program and I did it. However, we all have to admit that more education (whether clinical, didactic, or both) is always better!

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