"LPNs should be done away with altogether"

Nurses LPN/LVN

Published

As an offshoot to the News article about nursing education, an opinion was brought to the board that LPNs are not adequately prepared to care for patients, and that their education is not strenuous like an RN program is. Having been in the field for awhile, what is your opinion on the differences between LPNs and RNs, other than the legally different aspects (LPNs cannot do initial assessments or IVs in my state for instance)

I'm not looking to start trouble, but rather discuss the topic in an area other than an unrelated thread.

Differences in LPNs vs RNs (educationally, functionally, intellectually)

Best way to combat any possible negatives of the above

Advice for an LPN student (who is too far through her program to just throw it out and start over in an RN program - already applied for an LPN to RN program starting Jan 2010)

Should I really expect to run into attitudes in the workplace about my not being worthwhile as an employee and a care provider because I chose the path that I have? How do you handle it if you do?

There is a local small rural hospital that pays incredibly well for LPNs right out of school and who has been trying very hard to recruit us during clinicals... am I going to be inequipped to care for patients there because of my education? I would never want to get into a situation where patient care was compromised because my education was lacking somehow...

Jennifer

~slightly confused and frustrated LPN student

Specializes in Telemetry & Obs.
What confuses me is how employers can get by with paying RN's more than LPN's if they are basically doing the same job.

Also, why would a LPN agree to do a certain job if the RN next to her was doing the same job for much for money?

If there is no difference in what each can do, wouldn't it be illegal to pay on different scales?

When a woman has the same job duties as a man it is totally illegal to pay her less per hour just because "men have always earned more than women".

Something here doesn't add up!

RNs make more money because they have a higher degree...as to why a LPN would agree to do that same job for less money only the LPN can answer.

One of the most thoughtful and educational nurses I had the pleasure of working with in NS was a LPN!

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Specializes in Cardiac, Maternal-child, LDRP, NICU.
I'm curious about this as well. I read this message board today by medical students, and how they feel the DNP is insulting to MDs because there is a difference between "nursing" and "medicine". It seems like someone posting over there also posts over here. Hmm... interesting :o

IMO every thing in america has to be politically correct. Equality for all and all that BS. YES MD's should be insulted if they consider nursing and medicine same. Nobody goes to 10 years of hard, tough schooling and difficult exams destroying there personal and social life to be called a nurse in the end. MD'S are MD'S and nurses are nurses. Respect your own place and work with them. Nurses and doctors are always going to be at this war in health care system. They have far more knowledge and education then we do I would be greatly insulted if i went to medical school and they intercept that with nursing. If everybody is so insulted about everything go get the highest possible education and be done with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
I really do not think that anyone would take a thread title to heart considering the variety of threads that exist. I am sorry that it "disgusts" you, but if someone makes that kind of judgement based on one thread title on a massive board like this one with the amount of comments and opinions contained herein... well I don't know. I certainly did not intend to turn anyone against LPNs (obviously..if I disliked it I would not be in school for it). Read a few pages of threads and see what you would interpret if all you read were thread titles when making your opinions about life. Just saying...

I actually, in an effort not to start conflict, picked the least offensive thing said in the other thread as my starting point. That was the LEAST offensive comment made, so you can imagine that it was pretty bad, IMO. (plus if I did not find such an amazingly negative sentiment I would not have been moved to start a thread in the first place... I'm still in shock at the comments I saw over there)

I think that what lpnflorida may have been responding to is the title of the thread, not the content..."LPNs Should Be Done Away with Altogether" at first glance seemed to say that we are not worth our salt. I have to admit I took it that way myself. It took reading the body of the initial thread that made me see what, in fact, you were really saying. After reading the actual content, I saw that you wanted to start a dialogue and was not offended.

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Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
What confuses me is how employers can get by with paying RN's more than LPN's if they are basically doing the same job.

Also, why would a LPN agree to do a certain job if the RN next to her was doing the same job for much for money?

If there is no difference in what each can do, wouldn't it be illegal to pay on different scales?

When a woman has the same job duties as a man it is totally illegal to pay her less per hour just because "men have always earned more than women".

Something here doesn't add up!

Some hospitals put LVN/LPNs in the position of having to assume the responsibility for patients because the RNs are too busy for clinical supervision.

These LVNs are being cheated.

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Specializes in EMS, ER, GI, PCU/Telemetry.
Some hospitals put LVN/LPNs in the position of having to assume the responsibility for patients because the RNs are too busy for clinical supervision.

These LVNs are being cheated.

i dunno, i guess i don't see it that way. i've always had my own assignment and i think i do a very good job with it. i will continue to work in a hospital as a LPN until i finish my RN degree.

i would rather work in a hospital, for less pay and more stability. i feel blessed that a hospital has enough faith in my knowledge and skills to hire me. sure, stinks when my fiance's paycheck is more than mine... but that is the choice that i made when i decided to go for med/surg instead of LTC and that i decided to go for the LPN before the RN to get my feet wet in nursing.... and those are choices i don't regret at all.

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I'm a MA/Phlebotomist who runs Apheresis procedures and I'm actually embarrassed about the money(or lack there of) I make. I will be returning to school to be an LPN this summer. I find it so insulting that I get paid far far far less than the nurses I work with who do the same thing as me. Especially, since one nurse inparticular constantly asks me questions about different aspects of our procedures that she should know by now( her pay more than doubles mine):angryfire. I am using LPN training as a stepping stone though. I do wish to go on to RN, but I like learning little by little. It makes everything easier to digest and retain in my opinion. I'm positive I won't feel as lost becoming an RN if I were an LPN first. And here I thought I would get more respect if I increase my education by becoming and LPN:icon_roll. How silly of me (LOL):lol2: All people who care for other people and do it well should not be done away with regaurdless of those little letters that follow their name. Some nurses don't know half as much as people with "less important" letters do.

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I'm a MA/Phlebotomist who runs Apheresis procedures and I'm actually embarrassed about the money(or lack there of) I make. I will be returning to school to be an LPN this summer. I find it so insulting that I get paid far far far less than the nurses I work with who do the same thing as me. Especially, since one nurse inparticular constantly asks me questions about different aspects of our procedures that she should know by now( her pay more than doubles mine):angryfire.

This seems to be a major theme in the tensions between professions in health care. There can be a *major* difference between a person's formal degree and their level of skill and expertise. No matter how little formal training person may have had, if they are skilled, hard-working and stay in the same area, they will likely know more about what's what in that particular area than anyone else... yet still getting paid much less than others in the same area with more formal training and "higher" licensure. So you have a nurse making $45,000 saving the butt of a physician who makes in the six digits. You have an LPN making $18/hr who can "run circles arounds" an RN making $28/hr. You have a tech making $12/hr having to walk a nurse making $20/hr through what to them is a routine procedure. It's understandable that an MD, RN, LPN, tech won't be expert at everything and if they are new, won't be expert at anything! It's also understandable why the person who is more skilled in their role gets frustrated that someone less skilled than they are gets paid so much more. In these cases, the reason the other gets paid more isn't because they are more skilled. It's because they have earned the licensure that allows them practice a certain set of skills. And that set of skills often includes some of the skills that a lower paid colleague does more often, is much more skilled in, and will likely remain more skilled in because that's their specialty. And that causes tensions.

Just tossing thoughts around!

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Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.

During the 19 years I worked med-surg as an LVN I didn't think I was being taken advantage of. But I was. I was even told they wouldn't trust 'other LVNs' so I had to do it. I was being forces to work outside my scope of practice.

Sometimes I was the only licensed nurse on my side. It was impossible to keep the RN, who was legally responsible for the patients, informed about the patients condition. Just get her in an emergency.

I got all the tubing and IV medication ready, made a list, and "watched" the patients of the RN who would just hang the medication.

I was defacto doing RN work for less pay.

We should have had a safe assignment so we could work as a team. Patient care would have been better.

And that is how it is now at the same hospital. LVNs work with the RNs who have the trach patients who need frequest suctioning, tube feedings, dressing changes, and such. The RN is responsible for the care plan. It is a team.

Hospitals do all they can to staff the fewest lowest paid staff they can get away with.

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
This seems to be a major theme in the tensions between professions in health care. There can be a *major* difference between a person's formal degree and their level of skill and expertise. No matter how little formal training person may have had, if they are skilled, hard-working and stay in the same area, they will likely know more about what's what in that particular area than anyone else... yet still getting paid much less than others in the same area with more formal training and "higher" licensure. So you have a nurse making $45,000 saving the butt of a physician who makes in the six digits. You have an LPN making $18/hr who can "run circles arounds" an RN making $28/hr. You have a tech making $12/hr having to walk a nurse making $20/hr through what to them is a routine procedure. It's understandable that an MD, RN, LPN, tech won't be expert at everything and if they are new, won't be expert at anything! It's also understandable why the person who is more skilled in their role gets frustrated that someone less skilled than they are gets paid so much more. In these cases, the reason the other gets paid more isn't because they are more skilled. It's because they have earned the licensure that allows them practice a certain set of skills. And that set of skills often includes some of the skills that a lower paid colleague does more often, is much more skilled in, and will likely remain more skilled in because that's their specialty. And that causes tensions.

Just tossing thoughts around!

Yes, those are the way the cards are dealt. ANYONE in an area long enough will master every nook and cranny if they are really interested. I am sure that in many circumstances, if I worked in a free standing clinic that is not affliated with a hospital, that the medical assistant would 'work rings' around me; in fact, I may have to lean on them. The difference is that the obtained license and degree is what is distinct in society's eyes, not the actual talent. I easily identify with both sides of the story. :up:

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I work for a hospice agency, and we have and will have LPNs as far as I know. I'm an RN, but I'm not dumb enough to consider the difference in education to be determining on who can provide good, safe, effective care to Pts. You can also bet I pay close attention to what those with hospice knowledge and experience beyond mine have to say.

Schools, which sell hours after all, like to tout more schooling as indicating a good nurse. Reality is much more random and complex. The qualities that make an excellent nurse go far beyond the letters on one's license. They include attitude and a desire to constantly expand and improve one's knowledge. I'm a firm believer in lifelong learning, formal and informal.

That said, the profession of nursing is moving toward more education, and especially those with a career in front of them probably need to plan to get a BSN sooner rather than later. At least that's how I see the job market in several years.:twocents:

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I work in a clinic system with a few LPNs but there have been less than half a dozen open LPN positions over the past 2 years in our large clinic system. Medical assistants and RNs positions are posted more frequently.

otessa

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
I work in a clinic system with a few LPNs but there have been less than half a dozen open LPN positions over the past 2 years in our large clinic system. Medical assistants and RNs positions are posted more frequently.

otessa

This makes me disgusted with the educational system because in some areas, they are ripping off the poor students making them pay so much money for nothing. Why even have LPN programs if they cannot gain employment? And, this system allows medical assistants to really believe that they can replace LPNs, but they are limiting them to work in clinics, only...they'll need an additional CNA class to work in hospitals, nursing homes and home care.

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