You think the "Nursing Glut" is bad now?

[Guttercat]

I tend to keep my finger on the pulse of new(er) trends.

This subject is something I've alluded to before, yet now I am even more convinced it may become reality.

My state--a west coast state--recently (last year) redefined the scope of practice for MA's to include much of what RN's are responsible for, based on a new tiered level of education and certifications. Colleges have jumped on the bandwagon to develop intense MA programs to fill the need.

At one time, MA's were relegated mostly to Dr.'s offices (which used to be the domain of RN's). That may not be the case much longer, if the trending continues.

I was just speaking with a fellow student from a math class, who is pursuing her MA. One of our college's nursing program professors is apparently steering potential nursing candidates (friends of hers) away from the nursing program on the QT. She stated, "Now that the scope of practice for MA's has been legally expanded, the hospital is looking to integrate MA's to fill the floors, instead of the more costly RN's."

Just sayin'. Research on your own, and draw your own conclusions.

[jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B]

Even in the deep, deep South (lowest cost of living and per hour pay for most jobs), new grads make at least $20/hr.

There is more than one acute care facility on the east coast where $13.50 an hour is the starting wage--for a new grad BSN. Multi-year BSN's a whopping $16.00. That may be a decent wage in some parts of the country, however, with a lets say $300 a month student loan for 30 years, cost of living...there's a whole lot of living paycheck to paycheck going on.

[nursel56]

If someone states that a non-nurse is "doing a great job" based on observation of that person proficiently carrying out tasks they might be short-selling the value of nurses vs any UAP generally, they probably underestimate the complexities of care in an ambulatory care environment and they certainly display the veracity of the old adage that unless you've done something yourself it's best to be very cautious in what you opine to people who have done that job.

To say that discussion of legitimate issues on a profession- specific message board is the reason cheaper labor is hired when your reply contains a personal shot suggesting a poster may not have their stated credential pretty much makes whatever merit the content of your posts contained dwindle to a vanishing point.

[daisy-mae]

What is the MA scope of practice? Without licensure and operating under the MD's license, I was under the impression that there was no scope of practice, only what the MD requires of the position.[/quote']

My scope of practice covers what I was trained to do during school. While I don't have a license as a RN would, I did take an exam after I completed my class am a Registered Medical Assistant. I can take vitals, perform venipuncture, EKG, and assist in minor surgical procedures. I do not do anything I am not comfortable with doing regardless of what the MDs ask.

The only advantage I feel I have while in nursing school, is that I have phlebotomy skills that most people do not have prior to starting clinicals. Some other aspects were easier for me, but my hats are off to the real warriors out there.

[Guttercat, ASN, RN]

Interestingly, it is the newer BSN's who are getting what just a few years ago would be on the low end of MA pay.

Most hospitals on the east coast want all their nurses to be BSNs in acute care. If they can have a BSN who is a total care nurse for say $15 an hour, why would they then hire MA's?

A lot of the working conditions are less than stellar now. There are people who paid top dollar for their BSN's and can't even find a job. And those who do find that the "money" is just enough to pay loans--and hardly enough to live on.

If an MA makes min. wage, and put to the same tasks currently done by nurses, it would not be long I would think before they would be complaining. MA's have to be directed by someone. They are not exclusive to their own scope of practice, or a license.

With that being said, not everyone is cut out for, nor can do (for a variety of other reasons) a BSN program. Is it a viable option? Perhaps. However, when reality hits and their scope varies widely from facility to facility to MD office, it just may not be the "dream job" that schools are making it out to be.

Bingo.

[Guttercat, ASN, RN]

There is more than one acute care facility on the east coast where $13.50 an hour is the starting wage--for a new grad BSN. Multi-year BSN's a whopping $16.00. That may be a decent wage in some parts of the country, however, with a lets say $300 a month student loan for 30 years, cost of living...there's a whole lot of living paycheck to paycheck going on.

Excuse me. You are kidding, right? That's less than I made as a new grad ADN twenty-two years ago. Twenty-two years ago. (I bought a lovely home in a great neighborhood for $40K back then, and gas was around $1.89/gallon.)

And your $13.50 new grad BSN rate is also $1.40/hr. less than the current, proposed minimum wage in the PNW. ($15/hr.)

Wake up, people. We have a huge problem, and not just with nursing.

Welcome to serfdom.

[SE_BSN_RN, BSN]

I know several RNs who prefer to do their own thing when working with LPNs. Even if an MA were to obtain a license for more expanded work, they would be treated just like a repressed member of the healthcare team- less respected, and making less for advanced skill and learned knowledge/experience.

While I'm only familiar with a handful of nursing schools in the midwest, I feel confident in saying, no new grad was ever prepared to care for a pt like the one you just described, vera4130. Generally, people work their way up to managing complex care like that single handedly. Those were not all things taught in school.

With regards to refusing a medication order, was that because of something learned in school or something you became familiar with through experience?

I, too, work in acute care and find myself always able to look up meds that I'm unfamiliar with. I do this with surprising regularity. However, I know nurses in LTC who give meds regularly not knowing their mechanism of action or specific side effects due to time constraints r/t poor staffing. Its time to get'er done!

-----------

I read another post regarding the types of people who become MAs. There were comments to the effect of, thank goodness they were never going to get into nursing school. Obviously, this is a generalization. During an interview for an MA primary caregiver role, an MA should be well screened for his/her ability to learn and desire to learn. An MA could be judged on enthusiasm and energy. An MA could be judged on past accomplishments inside and outside the medical field. I suppose, I'm saying a new hire is to be judged on their character and that character is what will make the MA equivalent to a nurse in present day role/duty.

I was educated how to recognize a downward trend in patients I cared for through experience. I had amazing preceptors I would ask their opinions and respect, learn, and put into practice what they said. In school, there were only a handful of times I was able see and attempt to learn to recognize s/s of someone CTD. I am adamantly convinced it is experience through work in a field that prepares you for a job, not formalized education. An MA with the right mindset could go so far with proper practice changes. Safe, effective care could be given.

edit: oh ps! I know soooo many nurses that were reemed for calling a doctor with seemingly silly requests that got the provider's briches in a bunch at 3 AM. I see no difference between an MA, LPN, or RN calling for new orders.

Legally, a MA can't take orders. In some states, neither can LPN's!

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

There is more than one acute care facility on the east coast where $13.50 an hour is the starting wage--for a new grad BSN. Multi-year BSN's a whopping $16.00. That may be a decent wage in some parts of the country, however, with a lets say $300 a month student loan for 30 years, cost of living...there's a whole lot of living paycheck to paycheck going on.

I am on the east coast....I have NEVER seen that low of pay for a RN