Shooting at nurse's college in Tuscon, AZ?? - page 5
I am watching FOXNews and they just reported they have received a "bulletin" about a shooting at a nursing college in Tuscon. They will break in more more news as they get it. Two women have been... Read More
Oct 28, '02The gun control debate is much like the abortion debate, you are either on one side or the other. There is no middle ground.
As much as I love a good gun control debate with sheeple who believe the government or police is there to protect them, I am in the middle of my 6- 12's in a row.
But, when I am off I will resume this thread, it should still be alive at that time.
As Ben Franklin said: "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
The second amendment is as much a part of your rights in the United States as the first, fourth and fifth..along with all the others. To attack one is to attack them all.
Oct 28, '02Let's all agree that this particular person should not have had a gun at this particular time. How could we accomplish that?
Oct 28, '02I send prayers and thoughts to the families of those instructors killed and to the children of the man who did it who will be seeing all these horrible things about their dad and not understanding it.
I live 15 miles from where they stopped the sniper in Oklahoma yesterday and am very thankful that my mother and sister no longer live in Muldrow,Ok. My Niece and her mom who do live in Sallisaw are safe, but we never thought that something like that would happen here as I am sure those in AZ never had a clue either........
Thoughts and prayers to everyone affected by these tragedies
Oct 28, '02The Second Amendment only gives rights to bear arms to militias, "well-regulated militias"...not to anyone, everyone and his idiot brother to banty about with their favorite rifle, gun, semi-automatics, saturday night special, blah blah, etc, etc. I hardly think anyone buying a gun through the newspaper, at a gun show, or even at a gun shop qualifies as a "well-regulated militia". The National Guard reminds me of a "well-regulated militia". The constitution says "well regulated militia". The NRA knows this which is why they curiously do not argue in court that individuals owning guns qualify as a "well regulated militia."
Also, let's not argue that "guns don't kill people, people kill people". Guns are specifically for killing. Guns provide immediate and instant killing that other murder methods do not. Guns kill far more people "in the heat of the moment" than a "poison knife" could as someone said earlier. Also, it is far easier psychologically to kill someone with a gun than to kill them with a baseball bat, knife, bare hands, etc.
I think the American gun-love is steeped in tradition. Much of that I understand, as I have kind, decent family members who are gun-owners and proud NRA members. However, when we look at the correct interpretation of the 2nd Amendment (as thousand of attorneys have) it clearly does not guarantee the rights so many assume and demand to keep.
When we look at the murder rates (regardless of method, gun, knife, misc) in countries such as Canada and UK, vs. U.S. the reality is clear. I also know the previous mentioned study by another poster is flawed.
But Americans will continue to keep their death grip on guns, and maybe after another hundred years of killing, killing, and killing, then will the U.S. take a serious look at more sensible gun decisions, like Canada and UK.
Oct 29, '02If I seem a bit short tempered in my postings it is because I am exhausted and angry. This has been a long day. It was terrifying during the time we knew several had been shot where we were, but did not know where the shooter was. I was also at Los Angeles International Airport when the El Al shooting occured on July 4th of this year. Everyone remember that one? I have had the misfortune of being at both of these shootings this year.
Let's all say a prayer for the families of the victims. They were nurses, highly gifted, highly educated women, mothers, wives, daughters. And now they are dead.
Also a prayer for the students who were in the classrooms when the gunman shot their professors dead right in front of them. They will live with this memory for the rest of their lives.
And a prayer for the shooter, he had two children who are now fatherless.
Oct 29, '02I previously, in other threads, said I would post no more. I have kept my word so far, but I want to share my first reaction to this event:
I heard the news in my car. First thought: "I'm surprised this has not happened sooner." Because I remembered my experience as well as one semster as an adjunct instructer.
In a lecture, I asked a teacher a question she was unable to answer - she did not know - and she was quite angry at me for asking something she did not know.
The following semester, I had her for a clinical. The threat of failure was held over my head from day 1 - I was being paid back for asking her something she did not know the answer to. She made that semester hell.
I came very close to leaving, but it was my senior year. I am not violent; I developed irritable bowel syndrome for the first time, though. I went to clinical, day after day, knowing I would be attacked for saying anything - even if it was the same thing another student had recently been congragulated for saying.
I kept my head down, my mouth shut, worked my ass off and tried not to be to far from bathrooms - this was community health so that was particularly difficult. I passed. I suppose she was trying to do me a favor - to be a good nurse, keep your head down, mouth shut, work your ass off and live with constant criticism.
As an instructor, I saw a clinical group attacked by fellow students. They had met all requirements of their clinical but had not done so in the exact same way as the other students. The faculty, who among themselves agreed the group had met, even exceeded standards, never defended the students, left them to fend for themselves. I still feel guilty for not speaking up myself but I was a mere adjunct.
These are rage producing situations. I saw it at two different and suspect it occurs at others.
I do not defend the student who shot the teachers - violence is never an answer (except perhaps to violence itself) and I am also glad the student committed suicide - in the long run, it makes it easier for the survivors. Please do not assume I am saying what he did is just fine and dandy - it was a crime, a terrible crime.
My point is, there are situations that are known to lead to rage. I think, often, nursing school presents just such a situation.
Let the lawyers, criminal courts, civil courts and other areas deal with the crime.
As nurses, could we use this horrible event to push us towards a harder look at our professional environment?
Sorry for breaking my promise about not posting. It will be interesting to see any responses this may get.
Oct 29, '02Originally posted by kmchugh
...No matter how you feel on the subject, perhaps its time to table the debate on gun control and take some time to think about, and pray for (if you are so inclined) all of the victims of this tragedy. Leave gun control for another time, another thread.
Kevin McHughOriginally posted by rncountry
...And lastly could we please remember that there are 4 dead people now? Nursing instructors that likely had husbands and children. I can't help but wonder if someone inappropriate continued in the nursing program because we need nurses so badly. There are some questions that should be asked here, and gun control is not the top of the list.
My thoughts exactly
Oct 29, '02I disagree with the gun control issue. I too hold a concealed hand gun license and very rarely carry it with me---but I can. I also agree with the statement that guns don't kill people, people kill people. Maybe guns are made to kill, but they can't do it on their own. It takes someone pulling the trigger before that action can take place. If guns are banned, then like drugs, the only people who will have one are the criminals. I have the right to protect myself and my family and if I couldn't own a gun then I would just be a sitting duck for those that do. I also believe that there are flaws in every system and you cannot control everything. Someone who wants to kill someone will find a way no matter what it takes and by banning guns will not change that fact.
Oct 29, '02I have no desire to get into the gun control debate this thread has turned into. The most important thing is the lives that were lost today. Let us all pray for those that lost their lives, those that were left behind and those that had to witness such a horific event. The gun control debate can be saved for another day let us leave today to mourn for the losses.:angel2:
Oct 29, '02I will chime in and express sadness over this incident where 4 people are killed at the hands of a nusing student. Nursing needs to be protected from shooters, and people who are rude and exhibit negative behavior have no place in nusing. Yet, we want to give everyone a chance. And we want to give everyone a chance to have deadly weapons too. There is no doubt as to how this tragic incident demonstrates how private gun ownership harms. It's so shocking.
Oct 29, '02The links below will take you to the latest stories. Arizona Daily Star has the most detailed coverage in the form of text, including the gunman's last words. CNN has photos of the slain instructors.
Arizona Star http://regulus.azstarnet.com/hourlyu...story.php?id=9
I was very surprised about this terrible event. If the east coast sniper story did not have the lead, I am certain these killings would have been the most important story. It is fair to say that Americans have put September 11th into the past as they now prove it by killing their own people.
Oct 29, '02It is hard to imagine why someone would cause such harm. He must have been ill for quite some time. It is all very sad for the victims.
Thanks for the news stories.. differnt perspectives of the events helped me to know what happened.
Oct 29, '02Originally posted by 2ndCareerRN