Shocked At Nurses Actions Tonight

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I work part time at a local SNF / rehab faciliety. On PM and NOC shift it is staffed with 3 or 4 LPNs and one RN charge nurse (tonight it was me). One of our LPNs is a sweet young girl from a very small town near by. She is in a BSN program to become an RN as well. She was late to work and I assinged her to care for a new admit who is recovering from a serious MVA. She took report and went to meet her patient. She came back out of the room about 5 min later very upset. She demanded to know why I hadn't told her the patient was a muslim in report. I asked her why it mattered. She said that "those people are all trying to kill us!" and she couldn't understand why the patient was even admited or even given medical care in America! She flatly refused to provide care for this person. Nothing I said to her had any affect on her. She actually got angry at me for trying to explain why this person needs and deserves nurses care.

I ended up sending her home without pay and doing to work myself. I am only part time at this place and while I supervise LPNs and CNAs I am not their boss with the power to hire and fire. I did write a letter to the DON explaining the stuation and recomending that the LPN be fired. I also intend to inform our state board of nursing of her actions. I had another LPN who heard the whole thing write down what she had heard and submit it to the DON as well.

I consider her to have abandoned a patient that she had taken report and accepted responsibiliety for.

I understand that she is from a small, all white town and know from previous conversations with her that she has never so much as had a conversation with an african america person or any other minority except the Amish (many in this area). She aslo claims to be a very devout christian and is very involved in her church but I think her attitude is not compatable with nursing.

I agree that this nurse needed to be sent home for abandoning her patient.

But I would have immediately called the DON. We call her for more minor matters than this and have called our CEO too, who is an RN and both have come in to help out on the floor when we are shortstaffed and in a crisis. Call!

I live in a small town, I was born in a different small town (sounds like a John Mellencamp song . . :Melody: ) . . . . I went to college and worked part of my adult life in Southern California and I have to say that there are bigots and racists and uninformed people everywhere and that this has nothing to do with small towns. Just had to get that in . . .:nuke:

Very interesting conversation here . . I'm reading "just here trying to save a few lives" tales of life and death from the ER by Pamela Grim, M.D. (lower case title is from the actual book - I didn't make a typo). Anyway, horror stories from inner city ER's, stories from war-torn Bosnia and Nigeria. This awesome doc struggles with coming to terms with the ugliness she sees and being able to continue to treat patients. I'd say HappyNurse has some valid points to make as does Tim and others who have served in the military. Burn-out occurs. It is hard not to be angry about the gang shootings and the bombs strapped to children.

As to the LPN, she definitely needs some education.

steph

I guess (and you'll probably be the ONLY one who gets this) to me, it's like having a soldier FTR for COB formation and recomending court martial, whereas a 4856 or even Company level AR-15 would be more appropriate. A lot of my 91WM6 soldiers, who are also now civillians...really do share my thoughts and feelings, and probably, in some distinct way-you get what I'm saying-even if you find her find her actions unreputable.

I do understand the course of action being taken, but...it's hard, I guess, like I said, I understand the problem..just not the POA (plan of action).

*** I get you but I don't agree with you.

I just know, if there was a case on my floor involving an islamic individual, and I could safely refuse the pt. or switch out, I would...if I couldn't, I'd have a hard time with it personally. That's just me. I'm sure a jewish nurse might have a problem treating a self-proclaimed nazi as well...are we going to turn her into the BON as well ?? (This actually has happened at work on my shift before..Jewish gal..sweet as pie, pt. big ole' swastika tattoo).

*** I think your analogy is all wrong. In my view a better one would be a nurse with a big ole' swastika tattoo refusing to care for a jewish patient.

I am Jewish. I have cared for many a pt with shaven blonde head and swastika tattoos all over the place. I make absolutely certain to give them the absolutely best possible care. At some point during my interactions with them, I have made it known that I know they apparently admire Hitler and his teachings and I make it known that I am Jewish. Every one of these patients has been totally caught off guard by my revelation because, as they, each and every one, have said to me, "But you were so nice to me. You are such a good nurse, such a sweet person." And I just smile and say, "Yes, and you were very nice to me, too. Now if we can get along so well in here, maybe we can get along outside the hospital, too." And I have left them with that thought. I have never had any negative repercussions and I'd like to think that they have gone away just a little more informed, a little less angry at Jews, and a little more open to the suggestion that we all try to live in peace.

Alright, I have read through every post on this topic, and actually came back to Allnurses.com to post a reply.

I have a very different perspective of this situation. I recently got out of the Army after 2 tours in Iraq (a year long each) and a short stint in Afgan.

As repulsive as a lot of you may feel her actions were...I can understand and completely relate to this young girl.

Being muslim means you are of islamic faith, you can't be Catholic and muslim..I believe I saw that posted and wanted to clarify, you can be a Catholic Arab, but not a Muslim Catholic. You can be a hispanic and be Muslim..be white and muslim..be black and muslim..etc etc. A lot of Islamic people are very peaceful people, who find the recent terrorists attacks repulsive to say the least....but let's face it here: that's not the majority. To say otherwise is probably the stupidest..yes stupidest thing I've ever heard. It's not just about 9/11 or the U.S. for that matter that has seen the horrific attacks by the Muslim community.

I find it hard in Malls, resturants and other public places to treat obvious Muslims (you can tell which are which after you've spent as long as I have with these people) with some amount of respect. Call me whatever you like, I don't care. Surely, other generations of veterans also have the same issues with different demographics of people. These people have claimed Jihad (holy war) against the U.S., or do nurses on allnurses.com not watch CNN, FoxNews, CBS, ABC ???? The facts are undeniable, Muslims on the whole do harbor terrorists, and contribute to terrorists organizations.

I'm not insulting anybody--even if it appears that way, hear me out, though, I promise I'm making a point.

Having seen and met different Muslims/Islamics I've came to the conclusion that each is different, and deserves a chance to be heard. There are Christians that I think should be shot point blank in the head...same with Muslims, but it's hard for me to do so, honestly. If I was a young sheltered girl from a small hick-town, which it sounds like that's where she's from, I could only imagine that this would be the reaction. Of the many years of military nursing I've done, our report usually does include pertiant information, especially when religious beliefs could come into play where tx's are concerned. Muslims do have particular needs (religiously)...many of which are unknown because of the sect's the muslims have seperated themselves into. In this case, my report to her would have included the fact that she was caring for a Muslim. I don't think it's racism, because Islam is a faith, not a race. Perhaps how she reacted was inappropriate, but, that'd be a different letter to the DON/BON wouldn't you think ??

Firing her isn't going to solve jack. All that's going to come of that is fueling her rage furthermore. She should've perhaps taken the conversation elsewhere, I think. But then again...the letter you addressed would be different wouldn't it ?

I guess, my point is, I'm not sure that I will ever treat a muslim patient. I've been shot at by those *bleeps* as has my husband-several times. Those people and their actions have put my life on the line, taken me away from my child, my husband, put the lives of Americans in Jepordy and killed so many.......how does one forget that ? How are we supposed to turn the blind eye to that ? You can't. We can pick and choose wether or not to help with circ's, hang blood, assist with Abortions...but we can't decide personally that we won't help a person of a demographic who has publically cited that we-Americans-are the enemy ?? Seems a bit odd, doesn't it ?

In addition to that, remember, she doesn't know how to react to something that she has been taught it is bad. Nursing instructors can tell you till they are blue in the face that you are going to do this that and the other thing, but any experienced nurse will tell you-it's different to actually do it. So this was her flop, her one mistake...she should be reprimanded, but not fired. Being a nurse is a job-doesn't make you God, the ever forgiving, ever understanding, ever perfect individual we all wish we were.

Before you label me as a bigot/racist whatever the He!! else...my opinions are my opinions, I have them for a reason, you can either agree or disagree, but just because your thoughts aren't mine, doesn't make me wrong.

HappyNurse, please remember that you volunteered for military duty.

Secondly, I'm very sorry for your pain and you are certainly entitled to feel and believe whatever you want.

I don't know if it will help but you might want to research military nurses who took care of enemy wounded. It can be done. All it requires is an awareness that that person, too, bleeds and is only doing what his government expects and requires of him. He is a pawn just as our own people are pawns in these wars that are started by the rich and powerful, for their own enrichment.

A lot of Islamic people are very peaceful people, who find the recent terrorists attacks repulsive to say the least....but let's face it here: that's not the majority

I work in a town near an army training post; we get as pts a lot of people in uniform. Many of them (most, in fact) who have been to Iraq have been for more than one tour, and I have had many conversations with them about their experiences. I have a paramedic friend who is now in Iraq with a medical organization. Their common observation: most Muslims are very grateful for the help we've given and are friendly toward our troops. The one thing I heard over and over is "Don't believe what you see in the news. What you see there is in the combat areas. That's not representative of the country."

I guess, my point is, I'm not sure that I will ever treat a muslim patient.

That's like refusing to care for a Shinto because he's Japanese.....acceptable in the days after WWII but not acceptable now.

Those people and their actions have put my life on the line,

Wrong. First, you put your life on the line when you joined up, because you should have known that combat was always a possibility when you put on the uniform. Second, "those people" did nothing to you, the ones with the guns did. Your thinking reminds me of the cultures that consider a family tainted for generations for the abhorent act of one person.

The LPN was and always will be entitled to her opinions of people, as you are. The point is that you cannot let your opinions keep you from doing your job. One of the most important beliefs in this country is freedom of religion. That young girl, by her actions, exhibited prejudic and religious intolerance.

Specializes in jack of all trades.
HappyNurse, please remember that you volunteered for military duty.

Secondly, I'm very sorry for your pain and you are certainly entitled to feel and believe whatever you want.

I don't know if it will help but you might want to research military nurses who took care of enemy wounded. It can be done. All it requires is an awareness that that person, too, bleeds and is only doing what his government expects and requires of him. He is a pawn just as our own people are pawns in these wars that are started by the rich and powerful, for their own enrichment.

I'm with you on this one Trudy and this is coming from not only a Nurse but a Vietnam era and Desert Storm VET!! Also one who has a son who is now on his 3rd tour in Iraq. My daughter is on the US Cole also. To clump someone into a sick personal opinion based on thier race, religion or anything else is ignorance. Too think everyone Muslim is a potential if not a definite terrorist is idiotic period. Definitely do some research on Military Nursing!!! Trudy said it very correctly and appropriately.

Specializes in Med/Surg, Geriatrics.
I'll remember your comments when DH goes to get fitted for his prosthetic. Get over yourself.

By all means, remember that. Perhaps it could help you deal with the anger/hatred/self-righteousness/prejudice which appears to be consuming you. Best wishes to you and your husband.

You have no idea what you're talking about. How many muslims have you happened to know?

There is a very large Muslim family whose members I have cared for. A good friend of mine in another town is Muslim. I have spoken with many military members who have had extensive exposure to Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan. Do I know a whole community? No, but that's because I am in a small town.

I am also an army brat, my dad was a career soldier. I remember my father telling me about some of his soldiers over the years who were evaluated poorly because of overt prejudice and were given a period of time to change their attitudes. Not change their feelings, but their attitudes.

Specializes in ABMT.

Nurse abandons pt=nurse gets reported to the BON, nurse gets fired.

That's the key issue, I think.

And I agree with everyone else who's said it, PMFB, please call your DON now. The DON will want to know about all this. Please don't fall in to that place many of us do, thinking "oh I can handle it all myself." Truly, I believe your superiors will want to know about this, partly because they will have their own ideas about appropriate action. I believe they trust your judgment, but at the very least they will want to weigh in. Give them the choice to put this off till Monday.

Best of luck. What a sad mess. I believe sending the nurse home was the right thing to do. Out of curiosity, was the pt aware any of this happened? I hope not.

Rebecca

I'll remember your comments when DH goes to get fitted for his prosthetic. Get over yourself.

I thought that the reasons our administration was so adamant about our troops staying over seas and "staying hte course" was because many of the muslims over there in Iraq are NOT terrorists and are victimized by the extremists as well. So those people who have nothing to do with terrorism don't deserve compassion or medical treatment? Your comments are absolutely appalling. Basically what you are saying is that if someone that shares the same religion as YOU, goes and kills or maims another person, then noone that shares that same faith deserves medical or nursing care. How would you like to be sick and go to the hospital to recieve medical attention and have the nurses and doctors refuse to care for you because they looked in your chart and saw that you were catholic, episcopalian, baptist, anglican or _______ , and one time someone of that same faith hurt them? Makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!

Out of curiosity, was the pt aware any of this happened? I hope not.

Rebecca

If I read things right, no he was't. I think she saw the notation in his chart before she went in the room.

Specializes in Day Surgery/Infusion/ED.
Actually, your opinions DO make you wrong. They aren't just differing opinions. They are wrong.

I DO watch the news, and those on this site can tell you that I have been and remain one of the biggest supporters for the need to go into Iraq.

If you were on active duty, you swore an oath to uphold the Constitution and that Constitution has this nagging little principle in it that says we are bound by a kindred not vested in religion.

An America that can declare itself intolerant of any religion puts all religions at risks. 9/11 was not about faith, but about the faithless actions of those that carried out that dastardly deed.

I find myself comforted in knowing beyond a doubt that not just MY God was appalled by their actions, but THEIR God as well. How do I know this? Because the very same Allah of Muhammad is the God of Abraham that I respect and worship.

I find your statement that muslims on the whole harbor terrorists to be factually incorrect and ignorant. Many American muslims (and indeed, worldwide) are just as horrified at 9/11 as you are. In addition, I lived among muslims in Turkey for a year while on active duty and found them to be fierce and respectable allies.

The majority of muslims are peaceful people. While you might contend that is the 'stupidest' thing you've ever heard, I contend THAT belief completely explains your viewpoint. You've based your core beliefs on this issue upon hyperbole, and the disconnect from reality created by such misplaced beliefs is readily apparent.

I'm not attacking you, but your opinion is indefensible and stands in stark contrast to the Constitutional principles you swore to uphold. We are a great nation BECAUSE we repudiate such positions.

~faith,

Timothy.

Fabulous!

Specializes in OR.
Well, I am a Jewish nurse and I have cared for muslim patients, and white supremacists, also. And I lost family in the holocaust.

A patient is a patient.

:yeahthat: The way I see it is, this girl knew that as a nurse, she must do what is best for the patient, not for herself. When you go into work, you have to leave all your personal baggage at the door. I have a personal history of domestic abuse happening to me, but I still took care of a convict in the OR who was in prison for beating(and almost killing) his wife. Not only do I think she should be fired, I'd report her to the BON. She did take report on this patient, therefore what she did was abandonment.
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