Posters that are not nurses - page 9

i'm going to keep this nice and polite i promise mods!:) i'm just hoping that one of the smart student/new nurse posters can answer this. i know that we have quite a few people on here that... Read More

  1. by   Ruby Vee
    Quote from paulawvncc
    i don't know what issues had been brought up that made the op post this post...and maybe i am off, but sometimes we have life experiences that make us far more capable of handing out advise.
    [font="comic sans ms"]i think the issue that made the op start this thread is what seems to be the prevailing attitude among many non-nurse and new nurse posters on this board of disrespect for experienced nurses. this lack of respect is demonstrated by non-nurses or others without significant nursing experience jumping onto a "vent" thread and posting things such as "you are all mean and evil," "you lack compassion," "you should quit nursing if you hate it so much," or "i hope i'm never as mean and nasty as you, and i would never laugh at a patient the way you do." these folks obviously lack the experience to understand that sometimes the only way to stay sane and to continue to care for others is to vent, and sometimes laughing at the absurdly horrible is the only way not to cry. in fact, i'd love to hear from some of them five or twenty-five years down the road to see if they still feel the same way. i'm postulating that if they do, they probably haven't lasted in bedside nursing.

    at 39, you have a wealth of life experience. and it sounds as though you've had some experience with the health care system as well. experience as a loving family member, however, is nothing like experience as a nurse caring for patients they don't aready know and love. you aren't in the position of explaining that you don't know when the doctor is coming, that you can't give the pain medication without an order which you won't have until the doctor arrives to examine the patient, or that he has to remain npo until after the test that hasn't been scheduled because it hasn't been ordered because the doctor (who is up to his elbows in trauma) hasn't been to see the patient yet. you're trying to advocate for your family member, but you still don't "get it." you haven't been there in our shoes. we don't expect you to get it. we do, however, expect you to have some respect for those of us in the position of explaining that you can't have what you want and we don't know when you'll get it . . . and we expect you to understand that you don't understand what it's like to be in our shoes.

    i wouldn't want to close the board to non-nurses or new nurses, but sometimes i wish we could close certain threads to them because when you're at the end of your rope and the only thing stopping you from unloading on your family is unloading in a vent thread, reading that you're a terrible person who shouldn't be entrusted with caring for patients is not helpful, even when we understand that it's coming from someone who doesn't know any better. i wish the newbies and non-nurses and nurses who haven't been there would stop and think before they post things like that in those threads -- but i have to remember that if they were capable of stopping and thinking and attempting to understand before posting, they wouldn't be posting those things. they can't help it. not only do they not get it, they don't realize that they don't get it, and i should be feeling sorry for them rather than fighting the urge to strangle them.
  2. by   RavenC
    Quote from casbeezgirlrn
    i'm going to keep this nice and polite i promise mods!

    i'm just hoping that one of the smart student/new nurse posters can answer this.
    i know that we have quite a few people on here that do not have the title nurse, either rn/lpn. we have some great, intelligent students,new nurses,cna's, techs, etc. most of them add a lot of interesting elements and variety to the posts and i enjoy reading them.

    however, i really want to know something. i have noticed this with several other posters(not the above ones) on several occasions. why on earth would someone that is not a nurse think they could ever tell a nurse how to do their job? or think that limited clinical experience is enough to say they know what a nurse does?
    i mean, i would never think of say, jumping in a thread telling ob nurses how they should do something or how they could do it better. i've never done ob (not counting school)
    i guess this is just frustrating as it seems people think it's so easy to do this job! it's not, it has hard times, fun times, sad,break your heart in two times. but it's not a job that you can learn how to do in a few semesters of school. it takes years. fortunately, i think that most of our students here know that and respect that.
    so, what's the thought on the ones that don't know? is it their egos? overconfidence?
    i'm really interested in replies.

    the other day one of our cna's was upset about staffing and, in an effort to show that she's better than the rest of us, stated, "well, i've done staffing so i know what it's like, and i've given out meds too cause i've worked personal care and i..." that's when i interrupted her and said, "oh good. you can do everything. the rest of us can go home." the conversation was suddenly over and she had something important to go take care of.
  3. by   Cattitude
    Quote from ruby vee
    i think the issue that made the op start this thread is what seems to be the prevailing attitude among many non-nurse and new nurse posters on this board of disrespect for experienced nurses. this lack of respect is demonstrated by non-nurses or others without significant nursing experience jumping onto a "vent" thread and posting things such as "you are all mean and evil," "you lack compassion," "you should quit nursing if you hate it so much," or "i hope i'm never as mean and nasty as you, and i would never laugh at a patient the way you do." these folks obviously lack the experience to understand that sometimes the only way to stay sane and to continue to care for others is to vent, and sometimes laughing at the absurdly horrible is the only way not to cry. in fact, i'd love to hear from some of them five or twenty-five years down the road to see if they still feel the same way. i'm postulating that if they do, they probably haven't lasted in bedside nursing.

    at 39, you have a wealth of life experience. and it sounds as though you've had some experience with the health care system as well. experience as a loving family member, however, is nothing like experience as a nurse caring for patients they don't aready know and love. you aren't in the position of explaining that you don't know when the doctor is coming, that you can't give the pain medication without an order which you won't have until the doctor arrives to examine the patient, or that he has to remain npo until after the test that hasn't been scheduled because it hasn't been ordered because the doctor (who is up to his elbows in trauma) hasn't been to see the patient yet. you're trying to advocate for your family member, but you still don't "get it." you haven't been there in our shoes. we don't expect you to get it. we do, however, expect you to have some respect for those of us in the position of explaining that you can't have what you want and we don't know when you'll get it . . . and we expect you to understand that you don't understand what it's like to be in our shoes.

    i wouldn't want to close the board to non-nurses or new nurses, but sometimes i wish we could close certain threads to them because when you're at the end of your rope and the only thing stopping you from unloading on your family is unloading in a vent thread, reading that you're a terrible person who shouldn't be entrusted with caring for patients is not helpful, even when we understand that it's coming from someone who doesn't know any better. i wish the newbies and non-nurses and nurses who haven't been there would stop and think before they post things like that in those threads -- but i have to remember that if they were capable of stopping and thinking and attempting to understand before posting, they wouldn't be posting those things. they can't help it. not only do they not get it, they don't realize that they don't get it, and i should be feeling sorry for them rather than fighting the urge to strangle them.
    i am the op and i couldn't have said it better or explained it better myself! thank you ms.rubyvee:flowersfo :redpinkhe :heartbeat
  4. by   Ruby Vee
    Quote from casbeezgirlrn
    i am the op and i couldn't have said it better or explained it better myself! thank you ms.rubyvee:flowersfo :redpinkhe :heartbeat
    [font="comic sans ms"]you're welcome! glad i hit the nail on the head!
  5. by   Bill Levinson
    Quote from casbeezgirlrn
    however, i really want to know something. i have noticed this with several other posters(not the above ones) on several occasions. why on earth would someone that is not a nurse think they could ever tell a nurse how to do their job?
    i would never dream of telling a md, rn, or lpn how to do his or her job. since i have considerable experience and several professional certifications in the quality management field, however, i am probably more qualified than most medical professionals or hospital administrators to talk about how the system in which medical professionals must work should be designed.

    if you show me five malpractice cases (or so-called "nurse errors"), i can show on average how four of them would have been prevented by a decent quality management system.

    there is a huge difference between telling a doctor or nurse how to do his/her job and designing systems so they can do their jobs without being tripped up by the system itself.
  6. by   Ruby Vee
    Quote from bill levinson
    i would never dream of telling a md, rn, or lpn how to do his or her job. since i have considerable experience and several professional certifications in the quality management field, however, i am probably more qualified than most medical professionals or hospital administrators to talk about how the system in which medical professionals must work should be designed.

    if you show me five malpractice cases (or so-called "nurse errors"), i can show on average how four of them would have been prevented by a decent quality management system.

    there is a huge difference between telling a doctor or nurse how to do his/her job and designing systems so they can do their jobs without being tripped up by the system itself.
    [font="comic sans ms"]as long as you tell us respectfully -- that's all we ask!
  7. by   Cherybaby
    Just another point of view here:

    I graduated the PN program back in 1999. I just took my NCLEX last week. An ugly divorce back in 99 prevented me from taking my boards. Before long, 8 years had gone by and while I had a lot of "medical assistant" experience (because I never took my boards) I came here a lot to read up on what the "REAL" nurses were doing. I used to look at the posts with such longing, never really feeling right about posting anywhere else but the student forums and the NCLEX forums, even though I was no longer a student...nor was I taking the NCLEX.

    Every once in awhile though, I felt compelled to jump into a conversation because a brand new nurse (RN or LPN) would say something so ludicrous, so completely off base, because they didn't have any nursing experience. Me? I had 8 years of experience in private practice, long term care, surgery and wound care...but no license. Still, I knew much more than the student who had those precious initials after their name. Experience does count for so much. Anyone who is a nurse for any length of time knows that perfect textbook nursing is rarely, if ever, seen in a hospital setting. Even on the NCLEX, it is still "perfect world" scenario. We all know, far too well, that meds are not always on hand, doctors don't write perfect orders and patients don't often appear with so called classic symptoms of anything! :chuckle

    Still, I feel that students sometimes have a lot to offer, mainly because of their rose colored glasses. When a fresh faced nurse would come onto the floor and I would be told to "show her the ropes" I would giggle sometimes when I would hear a new nurse say, "when does the PT/CNA come around to change linens?"

    Oh, sister. Do you have a LOT to learn!

    Their attitude though, is contagious. They are so willing to learn, absorbing knowledge, trying to implement what they have learned into their new position as a nurse. Even though I have 8 years experience...I have to admit, adding the initials to my title made me feel a bit...loftier, for lack of better term!

    I think that if we all just open our ears and close our mouths every so often, we would see that we all have a lot we can learn from one another. The old jaded nurses can remember way back when we all had that rosy glow...and the new bloomers can understand that the real world is a lot different than the classroom!

    Just my ten cents...due to inflation.

    Cher, brand spanking new LPN with experience to boot!
  8. by   withasmilelpn
    Quote from Bill Levinson
    I would never dream of telling a MD, RN, or LPN how to do his or her job. Since I have considerable experience and several professional certifications in the quality management field, however, I am probably more qualified than most medical professionals or hospital administrators to talk about how the system in which medical professionals must work should be designed.

    If you show me five malpractice cases (or so-called "nurse errors"), I can show on average how four of them would have been prevented by a decent quality management system.

    There is a huge difference between telling a doctor or nurse how to do his/her job and designing systems so they CAN do their jobs without being tripped up by the system itself.
    I think most errors could be prevented by having more staff, period. :trout: Nurses probably should not have to multitask as much as we do. Balls get dropped when you are juggling too many of them. While I do think I might appreciate your viewpoint, I hope that when you design the quality controls that you speak of, they are discussed with the healthcare providers for their input and ultimate effectiveness.
  9. by   smk1
    Quote from RNOTODAY
    I know I will get flamed for this.... but why is anyone , allowed to become a member of a NURSES bulletin board, if they are not a nurse? It says over and over again, that this is NOT a public forum, so why is it allowed? I personally come here for support, guidance and understanding from fellow NURSES. I think its just another example of how nurses are walked on, disrespected in general, and is an example of our "selfless" image... (which is bull, imo) I can bet you that you dont see other disciplines on a doctors bb, I can tell you that. Why? because it is not accepted. its just how I feel... if its a nursing board, at least try to keep it one. (meaning just for nurses... meaning REAL nurse, ie: LPN/RN/CRNA/NP) not students, not surgical technicians, not cna's, not home health aids, not personal care techs, not wives/husbands of nurses, not unit secretaries...thie list goes on!!!!
    Wow, and the post that set me on fire has arrived. I say that those who want a nursing board that ONLY has nurses (no students or allied health) should take the time and energy to make one themselves where they can set the rules. This board is Brian's creation and he can run things the way that he sees fit. If you get rid of everyone who is not a licensed nurse this board will shrink and the posts will be few and far between. The money taken in from memberships that helps support the site will shrink as well. This isn't a sorority or fraternity and people who are open to the experiences of people from all backgrounds might actually learn and benefit from all of the non-nursing posters.

    P.S-- student doctor network has licensed MD/DO, pharmacists, nursing, allied health veterinarian forums etc...
  10. by   Bill Levinson
    The people for whom I have no respect are hospital administrators and executives who create bad systems and then discipline the nurses when inevitable problems result. If a nurse (or medical intern/resident) makes a "mistake" because she has been forced to work for sixteen straight hours because the hospital administrators didn't hire enough people, my inclination would be to fire the administrators and not the nurse/intern. The administrators are responsible for making sure there is adequate staff, and anyone with any brains knows that you don't make anyone do a life-critical job (e.g. fly a passenger airplane, drive a 30-ton truck on a public highway) when they are exhausted, unless there is a genuine emergency like a war or a disaster in which there is no choice.
  11. by   MS._Jen_RN
    Quote from Batman24
    I have also learned how much nurses really do. As a lay person you just don't realize how smart, educated and trained nurses really are. I have also seen how much nurses care. I have often felt it was nurses that kept things running and I see now that is very much true.
    That made my happy. Thanks Batman.
    Peace,
    ~Jen
  12. by   withasmilelpn
    Quote from Bill Levinson
    The people for whom I have no respect are hospital administrators and executives who create bad systems and then discipline the nurses when inevitable problems result. If a nurse (or medical intern/resident) makes a "mistake" because she has been forced to work for sixteen straight hours because the hospital administrators didn't hire enough people, my inclination would be to fire the administrators and not the nurse/intern. The administrators are responsible for making sure there is adequate staff, and anyone with any brains knows that you don't make anyone do a life-critical job (e.g. fly a passenger airplane, drive a 30-ton truck on a public highway) when they are exhausted, unless there is a genuine emergency like a war or a disaster in which there is no choice.
    Thankyou! It's not only that staffing when we are 'short', that concerns me, like the having to work 16 hours etc.. It's the staffing period. In LTC especially there seems to be no concensus or acknowledgement as to what is needed to staff 'safely', no consideration regarding acuity or amount of work like admissions, discharges, or increase in patients with behaviors or high fall risks. Nevermind PICC's and rehab patients that require much more nursing care. Sometimes I have as many as 10 high risk fall patients at my nurses desk with 56 total patients needing care between 4 CNA's and 2 Nurses. Do the math and it's easy to see how we can not possibly keep everyone safe!
  13. by   CrunchRN
    Quote from Bill Levinson
    The people for whom I have no respect are hospital administrators and executives who create bad systems and then discipline the nurses when inevitable problems result. If a nurse (or medical intern/resident) makes a "mistake" because she has been forced to work for sixteen straight hours because the hospital administrators didn't hire enough people, my inclination would be to fire the administrators and not the nurse/intern. The administrators are responsible for making sure there is adequate staff, and anyone with any brains knows that you don't make anyone do a life-critical job (e.g. fly a passenger airplane, drive a 30-ton truck on a public highway) when they are exhausted, unless there is a genuine emergency like a war or a disaster in which there is no choice.

    Exactly!

close