Jay Leno slams nurses! - page 14

I *just* watched Jay Leno make a really rude comment about nurses- it went something to the effect of... " you know nurses are the most overworked profession in America... especially in those adult... Read More

  1. by   rsh3rn
    I know its off topic but we're nurses we do not diagnose CHF, or anything of the sort. I know where you are coming from here, but .......
    Also how can the public possibly percieve nursing when nursing as a whole has no agreement on what that perception should be?



    [quote=ZASHAGALKA]He's just repeating a common cultural stereotype.


    But think about this. How many times in how many ways do you 'hide in the wings'. You don't say what you know, you hint until the doctor gets what you are saying. You don't call the doc and say 'Mrs. Smith is going into CHF and needs some lasix and O2' - you say 'Mrs. Smith's sats are dropping and her lungs sound wet' etc. etc. until the doc orders the things you knew she needed when you made the call. Then, the perception of both the doc and the public is that - the doc came in to save the day. Even if you tell the family that actions were taken to save Mrs. Smith, it's normally couched as 'I called the doc and got some orders'. Wow, her doc really saved the day!
  2. by   Thunderwolf
    Quote from rn/writer
    Perhaps this topic has run its course. I don't know. It's just sad that when a few questionable posters hijack a thread, we let them. Why should this thread (or any other that hasn't become an unsalvageable free-for-all) be shut down? Why aren't the offenders shown the virtual door and blocked from re-entering that topic?

    I'm not sure this topic has much life left in it, but I still would rather see it die of exhaustion and inattention than have the unsanctioned actions of an ill-manered minority be allowed to kill it.
    Agreed.........
  3. by   Tweety
    Quote from NP2BE
    thats hilarious!

    lighten up

    I have had to deal with the gaylord fokker thing, should i bow up everytime someone brings it up? sheesh

    I have my opinion on when someone tells another one to "lighten up". It's in this thread somewhere, so I'll lighten up and not repeat myself.
  4. by   Tweety
    Quote from rn/writer
    Perhaps this topic has run its course. I don't know. It's just sad that when a few questionable posters hijack a thread, we let them. Why should this thread (or any other that hasn't become an unsalvageable free-for-all) be shut down? Why aren't the offenders shown the virtual door and blocked from re-entering that topic?

    I'm not sure this topic has much life left in it, but I still would rather see it die of exhaustion and inattention than have the unsanctioned actions of an ill-manered minority be allowed to kill it.

    I agree. I've voiced my opinion several times to the mods for prematurely closing down threads.

    I also don't like it when we're told to stay on topic, I say let threads live a natural life, on topic or not, as long as TOS haven't been violated, then die a natural death.
  5. by   Thunderwolf
    [quote=rsh3rn]I know its off topic but we're nurses we do not diagnose CHF, or anything of the sort. I know where you are coming from here, but .......
    Also how can the public possibly percieve nursing when nursing as a whole has no agreement on what that perception should be?



    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    He's just repeating a common cultural stereotype.

    rsh3rn says:

    But think about this. How many times in how many ways do you 'hide in the wings'. You don't say what you know, you hint until the doctor gets what you are saying. You don’t call the doc and say ‘Mrs. Smith is going into CHF and needs some lasix and O2’ – you say ‘Mrs. Smith’s sats are dropping and her lungs sound wet’ etc. etc. until the doc orders the things you knew she needed when you made the call. Then, the perception of both the doc and the public is that – the doc came in to save the day. Even if you tell the family that actions were taken to save Mrs. Smith, it’s normally couched as ‘I called the doc and got some orders’. Wow, her doc really saved the day!
    You hit the larger scope of the problem...perception as to what nursing is and what we do. Nursing theorists have tried to figure that one out for decades. But, it probably entails a Unified theory or Grand theory which encompasses most of them. Still, it doesn't translate well to us, the docs, or the public. That is the major difficulty...making it practical and precise for all to finally come to agreement..."Ah ha, that's what nursing is and what nursing does." I'm afraid most folks can't wait that long till that happens, if not lose general interest all together. But, until that time, getting credit where credit is due may be long in coming. Just a long winded way in saying "I agree with you."
    Last edit by Thunderwolf on Oct 27, '05
  6. by   rn/writer
    Quote from thunderwolf
    you hit the larger scope of the problem...perception as to what nursing is and what we do. nursing theorists have tried to figure that one out for decades. but, it probably entails a unified theory or grand theory which encompasses most of them. still, it doesn't translate well to us, the docs, or the public. that is the major difficulty...making it practical and precise for all to finally come to agreement..."ah ha, that's what nursing is and what nursing does." i'm afraid most folks can't wait that long till that happens, if not lose general interest all together. but, until that time, getting credit where credit is due may be long in coming. just a long winded way in saying "i agree with you."
    because there are so many aspects to nursing--specialty areas, training levels, practice sites, care plans, goals, etc.--trying to define nursing is like trying to define a gender or a race or a religion or any other huge group of individuals. in order to cover the immensity of the subject, your definition, by necessity, ends up being so vague as to be of little use.

    although it's only a starting point, i have had a bit of success when i explain that doctors (the group we're most commonly compared to) use a medical model and focus on treating diseases and injuries, while nurses care for patients. doctors often care about their patients, but nurses provide care for them whether this is in a hospital setting, a school, a residential facility, or a private home. in many ways, we build the bridge--heck, we are the bridge--between the patients and their health. docs prescribe. we implement.
    Last edit by Thunderwolf on Oct 27, '05
  7. by   Thunderwolf
    Quote from tweety
    i agree. i've voiced my opinion several times to the mods for prematurely closing down threads.

    i also don't like it when we're told to stay on topic, i say let threads live a natural life, on topic or not, as long as tos haven't been violated, then die a natural death.
    tweety, i agree with you. since being a mod, i've probably closed no more than 3-4, much when folks don't play nice. however, i tend to ask permission, 9 times out of 10, the members who frequent it, especially if it is the original poster who requests, whether a thread has lived its life and needs closure. apparently, this thread has a little life yet in it. sorry if "staying on topic" has bothered you. don't mean it to. i will attempt to say it much less. i tend to agree now that threads should live their lives, where ever they stray, then die their well deserved deaths via inattention. i agree with you, tweety. "the topic" is what gets the discussion going and focused for awhile, but it is the members who eventually decide whether it is worth talking about any more or not. you made very good points. i want you to know that i have listened and heard you. thank you for your comments.

    now, let the thread continue (hmmm, this does sound better!)

    :wink2:
    Last edit by Thunderwolf on Oct 27, '05
  8. by   rn/writer
    intensity can be intimidating, but it doesn't have to be viewed as wrong. i do think that sometimes shutting down a thread is done as a pre-emptive move, but that seems a premature and unnecessary measure with adults.
    the problem is that it can be a very thin line between intensity and flaming. most of the time, it is not the case. in fact, i have provided thanks on the board when members do settle disagreements amongst themselves. some times, i have to pm others, not just receive them. the tos binds us all. i have to review it often, get feedback from staff, and communicate it in how i attempt to mod. this is no easy task.

    as i said above, i'd rather see the offenders shut down than the thread itself. is there a way to block posters from a single thread? or can you suspend their privileges and give them a time out?
    there are ways to sanction, yes (warning points)...but not to block a member from any one particular thread. you have the power though to use your ignore button (user cp) on any particular member who rubs you the wrong way...you won't see his/her posts. threads are given time outs as a way of cooling, then reopened. significant infractions of tos can warrant being in moderation for awhile (the person's posts are dumped in a bin of sorts and released if meet criteria). lastly, gross or repetitive infractions can warrant banning. however, i believe, as a mod, that we are adults and can work through it 9 times out of 10, preventing further difficulties.

    thanks for moderating. i think i speak for most of us when i say we appreciate the time and efforts you guys put in to make this such an excellent forum.
    believe it or not, it has become almost a second job for me...but, i love it. i believe we have a most excellent board here for us. i'm commited to it. we have our differences, we all are learning, and we can all come together to resolve issues as they occur. i rely on you and the rest of the members to keep the board in its excellence...to self mod and to assist others...even when things become intense. believe me, i thank you.

    so, that being said, "on with the thread."


    ______________________
    please note: the text in red is thunderwolf's replies to rn/writer's quotes above. wolfie
    Last edit by Thunderwolf on Oct 28, '05
  9. by   Thunderwolf
    because there are so many aspects to nursing--specialty areas, training levels, practice sites, care plans, goals, etc.--trying to define nursing is like trying to define a gender or a race or a religion or any other huge group of individuals. in order to cover the immensity of the subject, your definition, by necessity, ends up being so vague as to be of little use.

    although it's only a starting point, i have had a bit of success when i explain that doctors (the group we're most commonly compared to) use a medical model and focus on treating diseases and injuries, while nurses care for patients. doctors often care about their patients, but nurses provide care for them whether this is in a hospital setting, a school, a residential facility, or a private home. in many ways, we build the bridge--heck, we are the bridge--between the patients and their health. docs prescribe. we implement (care...i added it here).

    this issue of "care" has been what we are attributed with, as nurses, in providing...but, still remains vaguely ill defined by our profession. care?...what is it?
    it has been what the theorists have been wrangling around with for years. however, the catch 22 is is that the more it is defined, the vaguer it becomes. nurses provide care...but, what does that really mean? the general public doesn't know and, most of the time, we think we actually do know what this means. but, the long and short of it is, the phrase of "providing care" hasn't served us very well as a profession. the danger of this is, quite often, is that we have left other disciplines to define who and what we are...most noteably, medicine and management.__________________
    Last edit by Thunderwolf on Oct 27, '05
  10. by   Tweety
    Quote from thunderwolf
    sorry if "staying on topic" has bothered you. don't mean it to. i will attempt to say it much less. i tend to agree now that threads should live their lives, where ever they stray, then die their well deserved deaths via inattention. i agree with you, tweety. "the topic" is what gets the discussion going and focused for awhile, but it is the members who eventually decide whether it is worth talking about any more or not. you made very good points. i want you to know that i have listened and heard you. thank you for your comments.

    now, let the thread continue (hmmm, this does sound better!)

    :wink2:
    wolfie, you're doing a fantastic job and i wasn't really thinking of you or anyone in particular when i made that statement. i would pm you with any personal problems i have with you.

    i think in every day conversation people stray from the topic to topic when they talk and it's natural that's it's going to happen on a thread. i think the problem is when the off-topic is offensive, such as a political remark or a homophobic remark, and it's sours the thread a bit. but again, if it's within the tos, i still would like things to progress naturally, even if opinions and reactions are strong.

    i'm not a mod, and certainly can't tell you or anyone else how to mod. just putting in my two cents as always. lol
  11. by   Thunderwolf
    Thanks, Tweety. You know I value your input.

    Wolfie
  12. by   rn/writer
    Quote from thunderwolf
    this issue of "care" has been what we are attributed with, as nurses, in providing...but, still remains vaguely ill defined by our profession. care?...what is it?
    it has been what the theorists have been wrangling around with for years. however, the catch 22 is is that the more it is defined, the vaguer it becomes. nurses provide care...but, what does that really mean? the general public doesn't know and, most of the time, we think we actually do know what this means. but, the long and short of it is, the phrase of "providing care" hasn't served us very well as a profession. the danger of this is, quite often, is that we have left other disciplines to define who and what we are...most noteably, medicine and management.__________________
    not an easy thing to define care. i suppose it's more of a question than an answer.

    i think i know what you're getting at. but i don't want to see the definition of nursing get turned into some long-winded, pseudo-profound mission statement that buries core values under a lot of corporate hype or academic jargon. yes, we want to be taken seriously but not at the expense of being real.

    so how do we begin to define care and caring? i think part of the problem is that we all--nursing and the rest of the world--confuse care, the practice, with care, the emotion. while there is often considerable overlap in that we can end up caring about those we care for, and while one can very easily spring from the other, it's unfortunate that these two meanings reside in the same word.

    when i think of the kinds of caring that nurses do, i first think of communication and connection. people see nurses before they see doctors or any other practitioners (with the exception of ems). whether a patient presents at a clinic, an ed, a school, or anywhere else, it's likely to be a nurse who will greet them and establish a connection. it's the nurse who will ferret out the patient's concerns and gather the information the doc needs to make the medical moves. and afterward, it's the nurse who will translate whatever remains unclear and assist the patient in implementing the plan of action.

    in this kind of scenario, nursing is patient-focused and concerned with meeting the patient where he is and helping him to navigate the pathways that will get him where he wants to go.

    maybe we make this too complicated. i remember when myriad definitions of pain were scrapped in favor of the simple dictum, "pain is whatever the patient says it is." maybe nursing is whatever the patient needs it to be.

    i know that is probably simplistic rather than just simple, but how else do we express the plastic nature of the role? nurses do such an enormous job that our adaptability is a big part of who we are. one nurse might counsel volatile teens about self worth and safe sex while another does home care for vent patients. i work in postpartum now, but i used to be on a sub-acute unit in ltc.

    the common denominator is that we all morph into whatever our patients require. our roles are determined by their needs.

    i really shy away from symbolic cliches but i can't help but see how nursing is like a light that passes through a prism. any meaningful definition of nursing is going to have to include both a description of the light itself (and won't that be fun to pin down) and the refractive nature of our roles in relation to our patients' needs.

    we become who our patients need us to be.

    the next question, then, is how do we define "we?"
  13. by   Thunderwolf
    You describe the art of Nursing very well.

    The "we", I assume you mean, are those who provide this art, which you stated most excellently...
    with meeting the patient where he is and helping him to navigate the pathways that will get him where he wants to go.
    Although the process is indeed patient focused, the science of Nursing also recognizes that the patient may NOT know how to make this come about for him/herself. The nurse or "person providing the art of caring" may also need to utilize "how am I" going to help him/her to navigate there towards this goal of health. The dilemma here is that most anyone can "care", not just nurses. But stop for a moment, "blind" caring can be supportive and can also be injurious. Effective caring requires, however, rationale. Holding a patient's hand is a very small act in the art of caring, but the nurse also needs to have some rationale to go along with it. Does the act of holding the patient hand benefit the patient or the nurse more? When are times of a hand hold perceived as intrusive, patronizing, or unwelcome? When is it seen as kindness, supportive, or empathetic? Also, to make this more "realistic", the idea of "context" needs to be embraced. Now, broaden this scope of approach to the myriad of things that nurses do and say with patients as they interact. Due to this complexity, it often requires the ability to perform both (art and science). This is what sets us apart from other we's.
    Last edit by Thunderwolf on Oct 29, '05

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