heartbroken needed to vent

OnlybyHisgraceRN, ASN, RN · Jul 22, 2012

Your story breaks my heart. I've experienced what you have and so have so many of my nursing friends. Next, time this happens ( and it will) ask for another preceptor, another unit, or what ever you have to do to get that year of experience. This was a lesson learned.

I'm personally sick and tired of preceptors who forgot they were new and bully new nurses. If you don't like precepting put it in writing and give it your manager.

OnlybyHisgraceRN, ASN, RN · Jul 22, 2012

THe hard truth is that you will come across people like this your ENTIRE career and you just can't keep quitting!!!! I have told my kids and all those I have precepted for 17 years, that you DON'T have to like the person educating them, as long as they are competent and you can learn from them. THis is precious advice.
I learned skills from hard nosed nasty nurses, I learned how to interact with the caring ones. I learned how to stand toe to toe with a screaming doctor from those nasty nurses. I learned how to drop everything and hold a hand and just listen from the caring ones.
Each peer you encounter in your career has the potential to teach you something each and every shift. You can't run from the hard ones, but you can figure out what you need from them and what they need from you. ex. the hard a$$ nurse gets assigned the difficult needy on the call buzzer patient. I offer to take that one from them, and tell them I need the patient experience. The trade off is that my lab draw skills stink and I want her to help me improve my skills with the morning lab draws.
This is about knowing how to work and work with people. It is a skill to be learned that will serve you well as you slowly become proficient in dealing with a wide breth of patients. It starts with our peers, please don't let ANYONE drive you out of a job, unless you are going to be fired, there is always wiggle room to work out a compromise.
May I finally suggest, in the future, you immediately pull this nurse away in private and discuss how you prefer these situations be handled. It sure as heck is uncomfortable, but I've been pulled in for doing a few of the things you mentioned and quickly adjusted my precepting verbage and actions...
... we all learn from each other, you need to put in the difficult actions by stating what you need, like and dislike. I wish you well.

Well said.

amzyRN · Jul 22, 2012

THe hard truth is that you will come across people like this your ENTIRE career and you just can't keep quitting!!!! I have told my kids and all those I have precepted for 17 years, that you DON'T have to like the person educating them, as long as they are competent and you can learn from them. THis is precious advice.
I learned skills from hard nosed nasty nurses, I learned how to interact with the caring ones. I learned how to stand toe to toe with a screaming doctor from those nasty nurses. I learned how to drop everything and hold a hand and just listen from the caring ones.
Each peer you encounter in your career has the potential to teach you something each and every shift. You can't run from the hard ones, but you can figure out what you need from them and what they need from you. ex. the hard a$$ nurse gets assigned the difficult needy on the call buzzer patient. I offer to take that one from them, and tell them I need the patient experience. The trade off is that my lab draw skills stink and I want her to help me improve my skills with the morning lab draws.
This is about knowing how to work and work with people. It is a skill to be learned that will serve you well as you slowly become proficient in dealing with a wide breth of patients. It starts with our peers, please don't let ANYONE drive you out of a job, unless you are going to be fired, there is always wiggle room to work out a compromise.
May I finally suggest, in the future, you immediately pull this nurse away in private and discuss how you prefer these situations be handled. It sure as heck is uncomfortable, but I've been pulled in for doing a few of the things you mentioned and quickly adjusted my precepting verbage and actions...
... we all learn from each other, you need to put in the difficult actions by stating what you need, like and dislike. I wish you well.

I agree with you. Personally, I think sometimes preceptors destroy the confidence of their preceptees and this is not effective. When I'm new at something, I need someone who doesn't make me nervous about doing it. If someone is just so annoyed to show me anything and rolls their eyes at me (my former preceptor did this often) and then says only negative comments when I try to do it (learning to insert a foley or something), I automatically feel like I can't do it and I am afraid to try again. This is not something I do by choice, it just happens no matter what I tell myself on the inside, no personal pep talk works. What I can do and will do in the future, which is what you mentioned, is telling the preceptor how I feel and that I need positive feedback to be able to learn and if they can't adjust their methods, I need someone else. And insiting on it until that I get someone new. I don't think someone should be stuck with a preceptor that isn't helping them, regardless of thier level of skill. I think new nurses shouln't be stuck in a hostil learning environment and need to insist that they get what they need to learn.

determined2doit · Jul 22, 2012

OP, I am so sorry that you had to go thru what you went thru, but the truth is...we all had to go thru the valley to get to the mountain top. I know that I had the same experience and so have many, many, others. Its unfortunate but it happens all the time. I had a preceptor that was from pit of... :devil: , lets just say she wasn't very nice! She used to embarrass me in front of patients, put me down all the time, snatch off leads from a patient and told me it was incorrectly placed, she was a real witch! Now I'm a dude, and I'm not really too emotional, but this preceptor sent me to the bathroom near tears, :crying2: not from hurt but from anger! Sometimes I wanted to slap the &*%T out of her! Need less to say, I'm no longer there, but a much needed lesson was learned. This evil preceptor was one of the BEST, the very BEST nurses in the facility. I took all that I could from her, learned and developed my skills, and now I'm a preceptor to others. Now I see what SHE went thru! Trying to teach and offer guidence to green hornes, who THINK they know EVERYTHING especially if they just got out of school. Never the less, I try, (operative word is try) to be as patient and kind as I can, knowing that putting someone thru the fire is not always the best move.

Best wishes and use the experience for the good, it will surely outweigh the bad! God bless you. :twocents:

pkateRN · Jul 22, 2012

OP, I have been there and I know how big of a blow it can be to your self esteem. during my last semester of school I precepted in the ER- I was in the direct entry MSN program. my preceptor and I started out fine, but things quickly went downhill. she was very quick to make personal insults toward me, in front of co workers and patients, that had nothing to do with my performance. she refused to let me sit down to chart, even after working 16 hour night shifts with her because she told me I was not worthy of sitting since I wasn't a real nurse. I went to my clinical advisor and told her all of this, who sat down with my preceptor. my preceptor openly admitted she thought the direct entry program was BS because of that, she had no desire to help me learn or treat me well. we have a shortage of willing preceptors here- often times, nurses are just told they're getting a student without warning. im sure it was frustrating for her since she didn't want a student, but it left me broken down every night and crying over the personal insults. in the end, I was transferred to another floor where my new preceptor was extremely willing to teach and was very pleasant. only you know how much you can put up with. I hope your job search works out.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jul 23, 2012

the hard truth is that you will come across people like this your entire career and you just can't keep quitting!!!! i have told my kids and all those i have precepted for 17 years, that you don't have to like the person educating them, as long as they are competent and you can learn from them. this is precious advice.
i learned skills from hard nosed nasty nurses, i learned how to interact with the caring ones. i learned how to stand toe to toe with a screaming doctor from those nasty nurses. i learned how to drop everything and hold a hand and just listen from the caring ones.
each peer you encounter in your career has the potential to teach you something each and every shift. you can't run from the hard ones, but you can figure out what you need from them and what they need from you. ex. the hard a$$ nurse gets assigned the difficult needy on the call buzzer patient. i offer to take that one from them, and tell them i need the patient experience. the trade off is that my lab draw skills stink and i want her to help me improve my skills with the morning lab draws.
this is about knowing how to work and work with people. it is a skill to be learned that will serve you well as you slowly become proficient in dealing with a wide breth of patients. it starts with our peers, please don't let anyone drive you out of a job, unless you are going to be fired, there is always wiggle room to work out a compromise.
may i finally suggest, in the future, you immediately pull this nurse away in private and discuss how you prefer these situations be handled. it sure as heck is uncomfortable, but i've been pulled in for doing a few of the things you mentioned and quickly adjusted my precepting verbage and actions...
... we all learn from each other, you need to put in the difficult actions by stating what you need, like and dislike. i wish you well.

well said!

i'd just like to add, for all of you who advised immediately asking for a new preceptor, that my manager feels strongly that it's up to the orientee to learn to work with the preceptor. an orientee who complains about the preceptor and asks for a new one is usually told to work it out. new preceptors may be assigned if the preceptor cannot figure out how to teach that particular orientee, but that usually happens as part of the documentation process when an orientee is about to be terminated.

we just don't have enough preceptors to go around, orientees don't get to pick and choose preceptors. i'm sorry for an orientee who gets a true bully for a preceptor -- but true bullies are few and far between. usually it's a preceptor being a great nurse but a poor teacher.

ShayRN · Jul 23, 2012

I feel your pain. I recently left a job that I loved because I refuse to go to work every day and deal with a bully. My boss refused to do anything about it despite numerous requests, so I left. Life is too short....

amzyRN · Jul 23, 2012

well said!

i'd just like to add, for all of you who advised immediately asking for a new preceptor, that my manager feels strongly that it's up to the orientee to learn to work with the preceptor. an orientee who complains about the preceptor and asks for a new one is usually told to work it out. new preceptors may be assigned if the preceptor cannot figure out how to teach that particular orientee, but that usually happens as part of the documentation process when an orientee is about to be terminated.

we just don't have enough preceptors to go around, orientees don't get to pick and choose preceptors. i'm sorry for an orientee who gets a true bully for a preceptor -- but true bullies are few and far between. usually it's a preceptor being a great nurse but a poor teacher.

i agree that a lot of the time it is someone who can't teach and there's a communication breakdown. i do think bullies are more common that we would expect in nursing, unfortunately. the nurse i had a preceptor didn't care if i learned or not, in fact she seemed to like that i couldn't learn from her. it made her feel better in some way, like she was superior to me. i haven't had eye rolling since middle school. this preceptor had a permanent scowl on her face, she never even called me by name. i would say good morning and she never answered me, ever. she hardly made eye contact with me. when she spoke she would look down or at another object. it was really weird. i can't learn from someone like that, nor will i ever tolerate that again. i would rather change professions, if i were stuck with that. on the other hand, i've had very very tough preceptors, the kind that aren't all warm and fuzzy (i'm okay with that style) that gave some great constructive criticism, and i was able to take it in stride and learn. being tough is different than being a bully and breaking someones confidence and spirit. i can tell the difference. i think there's the idea if new nurses can't learn from a hostile preceptor, that it must be their fault. that's just not acceptable. i think it's good to speak up right away, if there's a bad feeling, or else management will try to make you tough it out and will blame you if things don't work out.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jul 23, 2012

i think there's the idea if new nurses can't learn from a hostile preceptor, that it must be their fault. that's just not acceptable. i think it's good to speak up right away, if there's a bad feeling, or else management will try to make you tough it out and will blame you if things don't work out.

i'm sorry you had a bad experience, but i still maintain that real bullies are few and far between. part of the orientation process is learning to work with others. some of those others might be people i'd choose not to spend time with if given the choice . . . but you are rarely given the choice. we all have to spend time with/work with people we don't like, don't respect and cannot imagine ever having gotten hired in the first place. and yes, if an orientee cannot learn something from a hostile preceptor, it is their fault. a brand new orientee (or anyone, really) can learn from everyone only if it's what is not the best way to handle a situation. orientees are eventually going to have to interact with and placate hostile patients, visitors and physicians. it's a shame if their orientation starts out with a hostile preceptor, but sometimes it's that or no preceptor. no preceptor means no orientee, or a series of "guest preceptors" who aren't really preceptors, don't care about the orientee or their orientation and aren't plugged into the process. it's even more difficult to be successful in that setting.

it would be wonderful if we had the luxury of pairing every orientee with a perfect preceptor. there just aren't that many preceptors to go around, and none of them are perfect. speaking up right away because of a "bad feeling" is not a good idea in our unit. it will brand you as "difficult." the preceptor will hear about it and be less likely to be enthusiastic about you and your orientation. the manager will tell you to try to work it out with the preceptor assigned, and will usually add something to the effect of "if you can't work it out, we'll talk again", which is manager-speak for "if you can't work it out, we'll give you a new preceptor but we'll start documenting up the yin/yang because it looks like you won't work out." it's very difficult for a newbie to recover from that.

i realize that a lot of students, wannabes and brand new nurses are going to jump on me about how "unfair" this is to all orientees. maybe it is; but it's how it is. life isn't fair. i've done you the courtesy of explaining to you how it is; i wish someone had explained that to me about 35 years ago.

amzyRN · Jul 23, 2012

i'm sorry you had a bad experience, but i still maintain that real bullies are few and far between. part of the orientation process is learning to work with others. some of those others might be people i'd choose not to spend time with if given the choice . . . but you are rarely given the choice. we all have to spend time with/work with people we don't like, don't respect and cannot imagine ever having gotten hired in the first place. and yes, if an orientee cannot learn something from a hostile preceptor, it is their fault. a brand new orientee (or anyone, really) can learn from everyone only if it's what is not the best way to handle a situation. orientees are eventually going to have to interact with and placate hostile patients, visitors and physicians. it's a shame if their orientation starts out with a hostile preceptor, but sometimes it's that or no preceptor. no preceptor means no orientee, or a series of "guest preceptors" who aren't really preceptors, don't care about the orientee or their orientation and aren't plugged into the process. it's even more difficult to be successful in that setting.

it would be wonderful if we had the luxury of pairing every orientee with a perfect preceptor. there just aren't that many preceptors to go around, and none of them are perfect. speaking up right away because of a "bad feeling" is not a good idea in our unit. it will brand you as "difficult." the preceptor will hear about it and be less likely to be enthusiastic about you and your orientation. the manager will tell you to try to work it out with the preceptor assigned, and will usually add something to the effect of "if you can't work it out, we'll talk again", which is manager-speak for "if you can't work it out, we'll give you a new preceptor but we'll start documenting up the yin/yang because it looks like you won't work out." it's very difficult for a newbie to recover from that.

i realize that a lot of students, wannabes and brand new nurses are going to jump on me about how "unfair" this is to all orientees. maybe it is; but it's how it is. life isn't fair. i've done you the courtesy of explaining to you how it is; i wish someone had explained that to me about 35 years ago.

i do appreciate you telling me how it is. i know that life is not fair, darn it! i think this is one of the reasons there's a problem hiring new grads on a lot of units. sometimes people can't deal, and quit or don't pass orientation. if someone is orienting to the unit, but has been a nurse in another setting and has had success, dealing with a hostile preceptor is easier, because they have a confidence base already. they know they can do it! it takes a sense of inner confidence and self esteem to shine despite adversity. for me, i don't know if i could thrive and grow despite adversity as a newbee and i couldn't deal with that preceptor at the time so i resigned. and my overriding emotion at that time was relief! i was like thank god, i don't have to deal with this person anymore. i was a little saddened and disappointed but learned from the situation. what i learned was that it's possible to learn from others, even if you have a set preceptor and that's the only option. that preceptor doesn't have to show you everything. ask the preceptor questions despite their attitude toward you and get the answers you need if they are the only ones who can tell you. review your skills so that you know what you are doing before hand so it's less work on the preceptor. and do these things very early on and don't wait till the last minute. i think these are things i would have done differently if my heart were set on working on that unit and there were no other preceptor available. the particular unit i was on had other issues too, that i think may have been effecting every ones mood. a lot of people were unhappy there, so i wasn't that sad to go.

PeepnBiscuitsRN · Jul 24, 2012

I agree wholeheartedly with what Ruby said- both as a recent preceptee and one who has precepted. Some people either don't want to teach or precept, but get it thrust upon them- nobody else will take the new nurse, ok, time to draw straws. Or maybe a nurse thinks they can handle it, but then quickly realizes they can't. Sometimes, and I can say it from personal experience, a nurse comes to work and SURPRISE! You're precepting today! YAAAAYYY!

I don't think there are as many young-eating bullies out there as one thinks. I had a very rough orientation for my first nursing job on a cardiac floor. I don't feel like I clicked with any of my preceptors except for maybe 2. I got taken to task, and I learned very quick to not be hasty to get defensive but to just listen to what they were saying. Some people have a better way, a softer way of critiquing. Back when I was in LPN school, about 98% of my instructors and clinical instructors were tough, no-nonsense, hard butts. But there was one in particular, who I can say was a true bully, I mean she was emotionally abusive, verbally abusive and racist apparently. It wasn't just my opinion but about 5 whole classes who put up with her before about 20 students went to the dean of the program and had her canned. So I saw "brutally tough" and I saw actual "cruel". It has sort of helped me to interact with further instructors and preceptors.

Sometimes another nurse will give us a bad taste for a fellow co-worker too. This has happened on the unit I work on now. "Oh watch out for ***, she LOVES to intimidate and bully new nurses. She's just not pleasant, don't take it personally." Well I got myself all hyped up, and the morning I gave her report all alone...SURPRISE! Nice lady. Yes I can see where she's got an abraisive personality, but hey, don't we all sometimes. But you see how it can turn into a round robin? If you approach someone with defensiveness, they sense it and they too become defensive...and it becomes a cycle.

I don't know what this particular preceptor did to you, what she said or did, but I'm sorry it made you have to quit. Next time you encounter a preceptor you perceive as hard or cruel, take a step back and truly analyze what they're saying. Are they calling you an idiot in front of patients? (Beware, I hear tell Doctors can and do occasionally do this) Or are they just bluntly telling you what you did wrong? If it's the latter, then take it with a grain of salt, or try to, because it sounds like on this prior job you had some friendly support, and positive feedback. I don't know, some preceptors are good at breaking a newbie in hard, and maybe it's for the newbie's own good -remember, you're working with a lot of people, and jerks do work at hospitals, so maybe she just wanted to thicken your skin.

NurseAaliyah · Jul 24, 2012

zookeeper3 that is the best advice that i have heard in a long time. thank you.