Having to tell people there is no nursing shortage

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Jul 17, 2012

Esme12
The term short-trained was never once used as a pejorative term, either in the text books or in the classroom. It is simply a descriptive term, something that people on this website read as a pejorative. We do discuss, however, that the main resistance to creating the BSN nurse the entry level of education to the profession comes from hospital administration. This by no means is a declaration of removing nurses with other training/education from the profession, rather, creating a uniformed minimum level of education for entry, like what the Philippines and Korea have.
In order to become a true profession nursing has to have control over the education and practice of nursing. Unfortunately, nursing has historically been dominated by a paternalistic and authoritarian system. We have come a long way from the old days when a nurse would jump at the command of the MD but there are still areas where we are controlled from without. One of the areas is in education, we are still largely controlled by the will of the hospitals. This is one of the reasons why the diploma programs largely went away, to remove the control of education from the hospital.
Florence Nightingale never dealt with prostitutes and to the contrary was a vocal leader against it. Nightingale was an upper class white woman who only invited other upper class white women of sound character to join her ranks of nursing. See Mary Seacole.

This is an interesting topic but the thread is about whether or not there is a shortage. Maybe this would be a good topic on it's own thread.

To the OP. Tell people There is not a shortage that economy has affected everyone then talk about the weather. This too shall pass.:hug:

FlyingScot, RN · Jul 17, 2012

What WAS this thread about?

She started it! :rolleyes:

allnurses Guide · Jul 18, 2012

I think rn/writer's advice is spot on - as it recognizes what is very likely to be the reaction of most people for years into the future, because there are powerful entities who have the ear of the popular media and who have a vested interest in keeping the "shortage" myth alive. I started a Google news alert for the words "nursing shortage" recently that I'm seriously considering cancelling. I've been blessed so far at my age with normal blood pressure. I'd like to keep it that way. :)

Rhody34 · Jul 18, 2012

This bothers me, too. Especially since I have witnessed the kind of cheating that can go when someone "earns" such a degree...
Of course, most student probably don't cheat, but it's clear that it's a lot easier to do than in a traditional classroom setting... plus the instructor/student interaction, etc. is just missing. But it's the future... get used to it.

I am a recent new grad from an ASN program. I have a bachelors degree in psychology. I am also enrolled to get my BSN. My coursework is not online, and I do in fact have to take courses that require clinical hours... so lets not make assumptions about people in RN to BSN programs.

That being said. I am so thankful for the education I received at my local community college. In fact, the education I received at the Community College was leaps and bounds ahead of the education I received while obtaining my bachelors degree in psychology.

In addition- I feel so lucky to have been trained by my community college as I had such great experiences in clinical. I have met new grads from BSN programs who have NEVER changed a brief, who have NEVER heard of shutting enteric feedings when lying a patient flat, who have NEVER done an injection on a real person before.

At the end of the day, we are ALL nurses. We should ALL try to strive to further our education, and we should all support one another.

Wishful thinking? I hope not.

CrunchRN, ADN, RN · Jul 18, 2012

She started it!

:lol2:

CrazierThanYou · Jul 18, 2012

I feel for you. When I finished my first degree, I thought I'd find a job right away. It didn't happen. I went to interview after interview after interview and I was never hired. It was a time (and still is) when people in this field were being laid off and more and more cutbacks were being made.

Every time I went to a public place, SOMEONE was asking me if I'd found a job yet. Most of them knew darn well I hadn't and were just asking to be jerks. Five years later, people still act like I just didn't try hard enough or something but really, they have no idea how hard I tried and how difficult that time was for me emotionally.

Now, I have just graduated from nursing school and I'm afraid it will happen again. People started asking if I had a job before I even graduated. I've only been to one interview after all the applications I've submitted. I don't want people to know anything so maybe it will lessen their idiotic questions.

Zookeeper3 · Jul 18, 2012

Well the shortage is real. I spent most of my career as a lowly AAS nurse. Two classes from graduating from my BSN I can tell the difference. 17 years of precepting ADN nurses and BSN nurses I can tell the difference. This is the real deal.

My BSN is not worth the paper it was printed upon, although it is a quality education for fluff and paper writing and management BS. And I have many years of exp. running two ICU's, so I have the practical experience of comparing both. New BSN's present with an entitlement attitude and lack of skills, critical thinking and ability to take care of a patient load, as compared to the basic associate degree nurses. I don't need my ICU nurses to look holistically through the patient experience while they lack the ability to perform tasks to stabalize and prioritize basic needs. No, we don't need an hour in the chart before we begin, we habve a bp in the 70's and need to act, not theorize. This is not simply basic skill based, this priority based which BSN and MSN's lack, and I have trained them all. The BSN's, the newbies are the worst at delegating, they lack appreciation for the team, and demonstrate attitude of entitlement, long before their critical thinking and performing can support it.

Anyone feel free to disagree. I am speaking from 17 years of real experience where I have trained all the staff, and managed them, hired and fired them as well am just about to graduate with my BSN. I simply don't see a superb benefit in the CLINICAL ICU aspect of one over the other. I conceed there are many, many positions where the BSN would excell. I am purely speaking from the comparison of new grads coming to bedside whom I have trained for 17 years.

Not buying it.

and the shortage is real, most of us are leaving and not willing to put up with this new customer service crap. But the amount of available nurses could cure this easily. If only the environment of nursing was different.

OB-nurse2013, BSN, RN · Jul 18, 2012

Well the shortage is real. I spent most of my career as a lowly AAS nurse. Two classes from graduating from my BSN I can tell the difference. 17 years of precepting ADN nurses and BSN nurses I can tell the difference. This is the real deal.
My BSN is not worth the paper it was printed upon, although it is a quality education for fluff and paper writing and management BS. And I have many years of exp. running two ICU's, so I have the practical experience of comparing both. New BSN's present with an entitlement attitude and lack of skills, critical thinking and ability to take care of a patient load, as compared to the basic associate degree nurses. I don't need my ICU nurses to look holistically through the patient experience while they lack the ability to perform tasks to stabalize and prioritize basic needs. No, we don't need an hour in the chart before we begin, we habve a bp in the 70's and need to act, not theorize. This is not simply basic skill based, this priority based which BSN and MSN's lack, and I have trained them all. The BSN's, the newbies are the worst at delegating, they lack appreciation for the team, and demonstrate attitude of entitlement, long before their critical thinking and performing can support it.
Anyone feel free to disagree. I am speaking from 17 years of real experience where I have trained all the staff, and managed them, hired and fired them as well am just about to graduate with my BSN. I simply don't see a superb benefit in the CLINICAL ICU aspect of one over the other. I conceed there are many, many positions where the BSN would excell. I am purely speaking from the comparison of new grads coming to bedside whom I have trained for 17 years.
Not buying it.
and the shortage is real, most of us are leaving and not willing to put up with this new customer service crap. But the amount of available nurses could cure this easily. If only the environment of nursing was different.

Yes, I am only a student. No I don't know about real nursing since I am only nurse extern and will graduate soon but thats besides the point. Your post holds such strong opinion and thats fine everyone has their own opinion but do not act as if your opinion is so well rounded because you have worked for 17 years. Yes, the dreaded BSN nurses in your AREA may act that way but your opinions and thoughts are limited to your small area of experience yet your posting on a board that covers not only the whole USA but other countries as well. Where I live, and yes obviously I am about to graduate with my BSN, we have more clinical hours then the biggest ADN program by me. My school has been around since the 1920's and teaches real skills and yes I know because I have 2 friends at other 2 other universities and 2 each at a different community colleges. One of my friends who graduates next week with her ADN had performed far less skills in clinical then I have. My point is its ridiculous to attempt to generalize the way you have and whether I was an ADN or BSN nurse I would always want and hope for the expansion of nursing, change is good and change is growth.

2BRN123 · Jul 18, 2012

Honestly, considering all the lamenting about short-staffing, the shortage does seem to be real. Theres also a shortage of finances and willingness to hire though, it appears.

CrazierThanYou · Jul 18, 2012

Honestly, considering all the lamenting about short-staffing, the shortage does seem to be real. Theres also a shortage of finances and willingness to hire though, it appears.

Something! I've put in I don't even know how many applications and I've gotten one interview.

2BRN123 · Jul 18, 2012

Something! I've put in I don't even know how many applications and I've gotten one interview.

Yup and while the whole advertisement of jobs may appear to be posturing to collect applications and resumes despite real job openings, every short staffed over worked nurse on their floors will tell you the demand is there, but nobody gets hired.

Anyway, to the OP (sorry I am way easily distracted and get easily off topic) It stinks the position nurses are in. With all of the talk and advertisement of this alleged shortage and yet no hirings. It's funny really, all my friends who majored in marketing or asian studies or some other none sustainable major have zero problems justifying why they're waiting tables or selling life insurance... but oh... I'm in school for nursing therefore there is no excuse for me not to be employed in health care before I graduate.

netglow, ASN, RN · Jul 18, 2012

But Leo, you do understand that all your friends with their other majors can re-enter the job market for marketing, or some other non-sustainable major at any time. Nursing is completely different. Remember what we do. We try not to kill people, we try to make them healthy again ...it's dangerous, right?!

If you are (able/lucky to find work) elsewhere in a non-nursing job having been unable to find work as a nurse after you graduate for say the first years, you will NEVER be allowed to interview for a job in nursing.

A nursing degree expires quickly. You might have to go back to school, yes clinical and all in some kind of refresher course work to even think about being considered for hire (more money for nothing). If you have several years in healthcare prior to college, that may be a bit less strict an outcome. Your friends will not have to do this in order to be considered. Also, your nursing degree will not be something that will allow you consideration for your run of the mill generic business industry jobs of the type your friends might land - you see, there is the stigma of being formally trained to wipe butts, to be a handmaiden, that is quite alive and well in the working world - that you don't have the "intelligence" to understand business "things" problem.