Employment application: would you sign this?

[P_RN, ADN, RN]

i was checking out my former employer's web site. they now have an on-line application form.....guess they think they might scare off someone if they actually walked in the door.

anyway, down at the bottom was this bit of information:

i certify that the information given by me in this application is true in all respects, and i agree that if employed and it is found to be false in any way, that i may be subject to dismissal without notice, if and when discovered. i authorize the use of any information in this application to enable ******** ****** to verify my statements, and i authorize past employers, doctors, all references, and any other persons to answer all questions asked by ****** ****** concerning my ability, character, reputation, and previous employment record. i release all such persons from any liability or damages for providing such information. i further agree, if employed, that i am to work faithfully and diligently, to be careful and avoid accidents, to come to work promptly, and to not be absent for any reason without prior notice to my supervisor.

i understand that if i am employed, i will have the right to quit my employment at any time, for any or no reason. i also understand that the hospital has the right to terminate my employment at any time, for any or no reason.

i agree to submit to a physical examination, including a drug examination whenever requested by ******** ******; and if employed, i agree to abide by all present and subsequently issued personnel policies and rules of the hospital.

"hmmmm and that's the way it is in a no right to work state"

now, who here would sign this?

[VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN]

:eek: :( NO!!!! :eek: :( NO!!!!

[Rustyhammer]

They are living in some sort of fantasy dream world.

It's not like they are the only game in town.

I'd never sign that.

-Russell

[NurseDennie, BSN, RN]

That's just a "given" in Tennessee. It's officially called a Right to Work State but in reality what it comes down to is Right to Fire. No such thing as "wrongful termination" here. You have the right to come back if you feel you are covered under some Federal law, sucy as ADA, but if you get fired because your boss' nephew has gotten out of school and wants your job - tough.

So this is exactly what is in effect all the time in Tennessee, but when you see it written out, it really shows how heinous it is.

Love

Dennie

[PhantomRN]

I would not sign it either,however in a righ to work state that is what the rules are. They just usually are not written out like that.

[RNPD]

Actually, if it is a right to work state (and even if it is not-unless unionized) THAT is exactly what happens. You can quit for any reason at any time, or the employer can let you go at any time or for any reason (except discriminatory).

However the reason I wouldn't sign it is this part:

"and I authorize past employers, doctors, all references, and any other persons to answer all questions asked by ****** ****** concerning my ABILITY, CHARACTER, REPUTATION, (caps mine) and previous employment record. I release all such persons from any liability or damages for providing such information."

It is illegal for a past employer to volunteer or release any info about you other than dates of hire and last date of work. I believe they may respond IF ASKED re your eligibility for rehire at that facility, but that is it. They ARE liable if they offer any other info or respond to any further questions, and you may sue them for it if they do. Unless of course, you have legally waived the right to do so as above.

ALWAYS read what you sign-every word!

[night owl]

They've got to be kidding. In reality, I wouldn't quit a job without a reason and I feel they shouldn't fire me for any or no reason. Heck, I wouldn't sign this either. Like Russell said, "It's not like they are the only game in town. The nephew can take a long walk off a short pier!

[Peeps Mcarthur]

Not exactly a union shop, is it?

Won't work mandatory overtime?.......your fired.

Want your vacation days honored?..........fired.

You have a complaint?.....Did you read what you signed?

You say your 12 patient load is to much and you refuse that assingment?....You're sooooo fired!

Don't like it?.....Like it says;there's the door. You can quit anytime you want.

What's the name of this lauded institution. Our Lady of the Stepford Wives?

Thanks P_RN for bringing this to light. I would have never thought that kind of stuff would be on an application. It's like they are saying..."your butt is ours" right up front. Take it or leave it.

I say definitely.......LEAVE IT!

[VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN]

Actually, here in the South, the "right to work" philosophy is the norm, but is implied, not so much stated as in the highlighted part of that contract. That contract is downright tacky, totally lacking tact and diplomacy. NEVER have I seen this policy spelled out so explicitly and stated in such brusque wording. (Usually has a vague reference to "right to work" and "no union activity" etc.) Have worked in three different hospitals in my area, all hard-core "right to work" and VERY anti-union. The norm in my experience is for the hospital to hold on to their employees. A lot of times these institutions have a "family-type, good ole' boy, don't make waves"-type atmosphere and administration overlooks a LOT of serious stuff. A LOT is swept quietly under the carpet, believe me. Usually every effort is made towards retention. They only use the "right to fire" as a last ditch effort to get rid of nurses who are RIDICULOUSLY unsafe and incompetent, substance abuses, bad rep with the community (the biggest reason), "politically incorrect" with the docs, or who have just generally gotten on their bad side. THAT application really sends a bad signal; don't like those vibes. Their tacky attitude really bothers me; speaks volumes. Says they don't care much about their employees or employee rights/concerns. Can tell this would be a horrible outfit to work for, no other info needed. AND, the idea of giving them free recourse to interview anybody and everybody out of one's past, with legal impunity, even bothers me more than the hiring-firing clause. I don't have anything to hide, but LIKE MY PRIVACY!!!!

[mustangsheba]

I wouldn't sign for the same reasons put forward by RNPD. I don't want to work for anyone who doesn't love the sox off me, and I want the privilege of quitting with a two-week notice.

[betts]

Thats here in Virginia; not a Right to Work State!

FAQ # 1 If an employee believes he has been terminated unfairly, does he have a legal right to challenge the termination?

Virginia is an employment-at-will state; this means the employer may terminate any employee at any time, for any reason, or for no reason.

As a general rule, therefore, the employee has no right to challenge the termination or request a hearing. There are a few very limited exceptions. For example, an employee may not be discriminated against or terminated because he has filed a safety complaint or exercised his rights under OSHA law. Section 40.1-51.2:1. Also, federal law protects employees from discrimination because of age, race, sex, religion, national origin or handicap.

FAQ #2 Who handles discrimination questions?

If the employee believes he has been discriminated against because of his age, race, sex, religion, national origin or disability, he may be protected by federal discrimination laws, and a complaint may be filed with 1) the Virginia Council on Human Rights, Richmond Office, phone number [phone]; or the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (E.E.O.C.), Phone number 1-800-669-4000, Richmond Office, 3600 Center, Room 229, 3600 W. Broad Street, Richmond, Virginia 23230, phone number [phone].

FAQ #3 Does an employer have to provide employees breaks or a meal period?

No, unless the employee is under the age of 16.

FAQ #4 Are there any restrictions as to how many hours an employee can be required to work or when he may work?

No, not after an employee attains his 16th birthday.

[RyanRN]

At the risk of making enemies, I think the Federal government justly covers all the pertinent reasons why a person cannot be fired. Here's why, just my point of view.

Suppose YOU were the owner of a business. Wouldn't it be your consitutional right to hire and fire anyone YOU wanted, yes even for personal and stupid reasons. (Kinda like wanting to rent your apt. to whomever you want even if it means booting the renters (non-leased and within the law=not trying to be inflammatory just trying to give example here) because your dad needed a place to live). Now I am NOT justifing unfair and cruel situations Having right comes with responsibilities, but I would hate someone to tell me how to run my own business or whom I could or could not hire or fire (within the age,race, religion biases etc.).

My point is that is WHY I think Right to Work laws are legal.

Would I sign that application? Yes, after I crossed off all that crap with a big red X. Would they hire me? I'm guessing not!