artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo - page 29

I posted this here becaue I think this subject is something that we as nurses deal with on a regular basis.....Many many people state that they have a big problem with the feeding being stopped... Read More

  1. by   BRANDY LPN
    Quote from James Huffman
    She did.

    Carla Iyer, RN: "I ultimately called the police relative to this situation, and was terminated the next day."

    Then she provided an affidavit of what she had seen and heard.

    I am proud of Carla Iyer as a nurse. She went to the police. I'm not sure where else we would expect her to go.

    Jim Huffman, RN
    How about the BON, the ombudsman, the office of long term care (or whatever it is called in florida), the dept of adult protective services, the states medical board, the labor board (for unjust termination)just to name the first few that pop into my head, if I was THAT concerned abou the care/abuse a res/pt was recieving I would not have stopped c/o until someone investigated.
  2. by   payday
    Quote from James Huffman
    She did.

    Carla Iyer, RN: "I ultimately called the police relative to this situation, and was terminated the next day."

    Then she provided an affidavit of what she had seen and heard.

    I am proud of Carla Iyer as a nurse. She went to the police. I'm not sure where else we would expect her to go.

    Jim Huffman, RN
    What I don't understand about Carla is that why if every day you go to work and your nursing notes are deleted, didn't she report this to some governing board. The nursing home has no business complying with record tampering even if the husband wanted it. The nursing home is at fault for permitting this.

    I would not let my notes get deleted time and time again without putting up a stink. Maybe she needed a job real bad who knows.

    We need to pray for Michael to have a real change of heart instead of flame him and by flaming him we are sending more negative energy out. Terri's parents need prayers too to stop the animosity. And I pray for Terri that God's will be done for her, not her parents, the courts, the press, husband.......
  3. by   Kabin
    The only sick alive people involved in this case are the Shiavo family. They need to grasp reality that Terri has long since past. It's reported that an MRI has shown her cerbral cortex to have been liquified many years back. Instead, the family uses video and anecdotal experiences to manipulate congress and the public. Just yesterday on CNN Terri's father was quoted that he talked to Terri about taking her out for breakfast and she supposedly responded. Right! That family needs counseling.
  4. by   bugsbee
    I agree the Schiavo family are putting their own selfish reasons in front of their daughters and it is not a place for the courts to be involved. And since her care is being paid by medicaid that means we as tax payers are paying for her care. Its just time to let her go. She is not with us anyway.
  5. by   Spidey's mom
    Just a clarification - Schiavo is the name of Terri's husband. Terri's parents are Mary and Bob Schlinder.

    I don't think this case will cause there to be more problems with POA's . . .I think this case will highlight the need to get your personal matters settled early and legally.

    This case hinges on we do not know what Terri would have wanted. Her family says one thing and her husband says another.

    steph
  6. by   James Huffman
    Quote from Kabin
    The only sick alive people involved in this case are the Shiavo family. They need to grasp reality that Terri has long since past. It's reported that an MRI has shown her cerbral cortex to have been liquified many years back. Instead, the family uses video and anecdotal experiences to manipulate congress and the public. Just yesterday on CNN Terri's father was quoted that he talked to Terri about taking her out for breakfast and she supposedly responded. Right! That family needs counseling.
    1. The only "Schiavo family" is that of Michael Schiavo and Terry Schiavo. The family I presume you're referring to is the Schindler family.

    2. No, Ms. Schiavo is not "long since past." She is -- at least at 11:56 a.m., EST -- still alive, despite her husband's efforts.

    3. Ms. Schiavo has never had an MRI. Michael Schiavo has refused to allow one.

    4. The family uses video to inform the public, since Michael Schiavo has consistently portrayed his wife as worse than she is.

    5. Since, presumably, you have not had the opportunity to interview or otherwise evaluate any family dynamics or the individual family members, it is probably safe to assume that neither of us knows whether "the family needs counseling."

    6. What grounds do you have for doubting that Ms. Schiavo could respond to her father's statement?

    Jim Huffman, RN
  7. by   Healthone
    Quote from stevielynn
    My step-dad had a traumatic brain injury back in the late 60's. He was basically an infant in intellectual terms and had to relearn everything. Walking, talking, etc. He was in physical and occupational therapy for years and when he met my mom was a truck driver, 6'7" tall, blonde and good looking. You'd never know he had a brain injury.

    I'm not saying this is what the future holds for Terri . . .in fact I'm sure it isn't. But whose to say what would have happened if her husband had allowed more physical therapy? We had a guy in our LTC with contractures from a paralyzing accident who didn't get P.T. initially. Later he did and was finally able to get out of bed and into a chair and engage in life with his family.

    My step-dad died of a brain aneurysm in 1971. But he had a few years of life after his injury with my mom and he took an active part in raising her four kids.

    Life is complicated. Since Terri is already in this state and we don't know what she would have wanted and her husband doesn't want to care for her anymore and her parents do . . . . why not just let them take care of her? You can't go back in time. The feeding tube is in.

    steph


    Physical and occupational therapy won't jumpstart a brain that is no longer there. According to what they say the doctor's say, she is in a persistant vegatative state....therapy is not an issue. It is a sad case with the primary facts lost in the parent's selfishness. Yes, they love her, but it is now the focus of their life, and the dramatization is more the obsession than what is best for Terri. Why are we now a nation afraid to let go of life and afraid of death? We prolong a beating heart in hopes we will forgo the pain of loss and the process of moving on with life without the one we have loved. We now clone our pets for the same selfish reasons. Death is a part of life and should be welcomed eventually.

    In Terri's case, the couldofs, shouldofs, wouldofs of the past ten years don't matter. She is gone according to physicians. Let her go. While her parents wish for her return or at least, the continuance of a warm body that exhibits uncontrollable movements and noises, who cares for her when they are gone? The American system? Are we setting up for an overload in the healthcare system? Sadly enough, if she were to be aware of her state and not able to vocalize or move or whatever, how maddening to be trapped inside........is there ANYONE who honestly would want to be in that position? I think not.
  8. by   NRSKarenRN
    thanks pizzigirl for posting the link re schiavo timeline maintained by university of miami.


    key events in the case of theresa marie schiavo
    http://www.miami.edu/ethics/schiavo/timeline.htm

    selected the following excerpts:

    february 25, 1990
    terri schiavo suffers cardiac arrest, apparently caused by a potassium imbalance and leading to brain damage due to lack of oxygen.

    november 1990
    michael schiavo takes terri schiavo to california for experimental "brain stimulator" treatment, an experimental "thalamic stimulator implant" in her brain.

    january 1991
    the schiavos return to florida; terri schiavo is moved to the mediplex rehabilitation center in brandon where she receives 24-hour care.

    july 19, 1991
    terri schiavo is transferred to sable palms skilled care facility where she receives continuing neurological testing, and regular and aggressive speech/occupational therapy through 1994.


    december 1, 2003

    jay wolfson, guardian ad litem, concludes in his report that terri schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state with no chance of improvement.

    wolfson's report

    governor bush's response to wolfson's report


    ------------------

    i was not aware of the length and depth of initial rehabilitative care provided. it isn't until 1998 that michael petitions to have feeding tube removed due to no improvement and persistent vegetative state.

    timeline includes court rulings.
    Last edit by NRSKarenRN on Mar 22, '05
  9. by   KRVRN
    I haven't seen any news reports of it, but I'd venture to guess that Michael Schiavo has had death threats and/or tries on his life. As heated as all this has been getting, I'm sure there are people who would try to off him so that her parents will then be her next of kin.
  10. by   Kyriaka
    Quote from Kabin
    The only sick alive people involved in this case are the Shiavo family. They need to grasp reality that Terri has long since past. It's reported that an MRI has shown her cerbral cortex to have been liquified many years back. Instead, the family uses video and anecdotal experiences to manipulate congress and the public. Just yesterday on CNN Terri's father was quoted that he talked to Terri about taking her out for breakfast and she supposedly responded. Right! That family needs counseling.
    ______________
    this is not correct. Terri has NEVER had an MRI. Her husband wont allow it.

    she has had a CAT scan years ago.
  11. by   Kyriaka
    Quote from danu3
    There are so many issues in this case. Another issue that we sometimes forget is a certain aspect of PVE in this case. One big disagreement is that the parents are saying Terri is not in a PVE state and the husband say it is. Unfortunately, both side got their experts to support them.

    Many of us probably side with either ther parents or the husband depending on whether we think Terri is in PVE or not. If you think Terri is in PVE, you probably say let her go. If you don't think Terri is in PVE, you probably will side with the parents.

    If your love one is not in a PVE state and the power to be said pull the plug, wouldn't many of us will fight with all we got?


    -Dan
    _________________
    Today we have MRI's. Terri's husband refuses to allow her to have one. Wouldnt you think he would want the lastest technology before she is diagnosed with PVE.

    I cant stand the term "vegetative". People are living. They are not plants.
  12. by   Kabin
    Quote from James Huffman
    1. The only "Schiavo family" is that of Michael Schiavo and Terry Schiavo. The family I presume you're referring to is the Schindler family.

    2. No, Ms. Schiavo is not "long since past." She is -- at least at 11:56 a.m., EST -- still alive, despite her husband's efforts.

    3. Ms. Schiavo has never had an MRI. Michael Schiavo has refused to allow one.

    4. The family uses video to inform the public, since Michael Schiavo has consistently portrayed his wife as worse than she is.

    5. Since, presumably, you have not had the opportunity to interview or otherwise evaluate any family dynamics or the individual family members, it is probably safe to assume that neither of us knows whether "the family needs counseling."

    6. What grounds do you have for doubting that Ms. Schiavo could respond to her father's statement?

    Jim Huffman, RN
    1) Yes, thanks everyone for correcting that; :smackingf of course, it is the Schindler family.

    2) There is a difference between a conscious life, as we know it, and the non-conscious midbrain reflexive life Terri is being forced to endure. Terri's consciousness, that made her what she was, has long since past. And as far as the husband's efforts go, he worked tirelessly for three years, with the Schindler family, to rehabilitate Terri. He even sent Terri to California for experimental neural stimulation of the cortex. It's more than the average person would do.

    3) Your response is a partial truth. The Schindler family requested an MRI, but because one was performed years ago, Mr. Schiavo declined the request. Maybe I'm wrong, but I could have sworn the court appointed PhD that had access to court documents said last night on both the ABC evening news and CNN, Terri had an MRI.

    4) The same court appointed evaluator, as described in item 3), assessed Terri's condition, and try as might for many hours and days, he was never able to get any indication of conscious life. He was unable to receive a response from both physically and mentally stimulating Terri. There was however, occasional random audible noises made that occurred whether he was in the room with Terri or in the hallway. Based on that, the family video may have cherry-picked moments to manipulate public opinion.

    5) Based on how the family twists the truth and ignores reality, I think it's safe to conclude their near term future will involve many hours of counseling.

    6) Confusion about the MRI status affects thoughts on this point.


    How can all the judge from the many court cases and hearings rule unanimously and, at the same time, be confused about the facts? The simple answer is the American court system was designed so that they can't. It stands to reason the Schindler family is confused by the love for their daughter.
    Last edit by Kabin on Mar 22, '05
  13. by   Kyriaka
    Quote from LadyMadonna
    I think this Terri Shiavo issue is part of a bigger political plan. There are thousands of Terri's out there, and it is costing the government MILLIONS of dollars a year to care for them. We are in the planning stages of being conditioned to accept "when it is time to pull the plug."

    Terri Shiavo didn't surface on the national news for no reason.
    _______________
    Retarded disabled people should be ashamed of themselves.

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