artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo - page 23

I posted this here becaue I think this subject is something that we as nurses deal with on a regular basis.....Many many people state that they have a big problem with the feeding being stopped... Read More

  1. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from danu3
    The following quote really really bug me about the Larry King interview (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...18/lkl.01.html).

    M. SCHIAVO: I won't give it up. Terri is my life. I'm going to carry out her wishes to the very end. This is what she wanted. It's not about the Schindlers, it's not about me, not about Congress, it's about Terri.


    How can he say Terri is his life when within 3 years after the incident, he is with another woman?

    -Dan
    I agree with you.

    Can't anyone see that this is not a comatose woman terminally ill?

    The article by Barbara Weller is heartbreaking.

    I'm just sick to my stomach. How did we become such barbarians?

    steph
  2. by   Chad_KY_SRNA
    I don't want to sound inhumane but I can't imagine sitting there for years watching the person I love stuck in a vegatative state. I can imagine that he would want to move on with his life. He was a young person who had planned on having a long married life and a family but instead he got to spend every moment that he wasn't working or asleep in a nursing facility with his wife who has no hope of any meaningful recovery. Never having been in that situation I can't begin to understand the frustration and grief he must have went through. I would try to move on with my life after a point. Its been 15 years the mother and father need a reality check if they could ever get her home they would have to do 24 hour care. I saw an interview with Michael on CNN he said that they had attempted Physical and Speech therapy with Terri and she didn't respond. He also talked about some kind of stimulator that was expirimental that they had tried. Sounds to me like they have exhausted their options This sucks! Poor Terri. :angryfire I wish there was a clear answer but you get into these ethics, religeon, and law debates. God be with this mess is all I can say.
    Last edit by Chad_KY_SRNA on Mar 21, '05
  3. by   James Huffman
    More on Michael Schiavo:

    "A case for Criminal Investigation of Michael Schiavo:

    1) Nurses' testimony: Heidi Law, Carla Sauer-Iyer, Carolyn Johnson have been ignored and dismissed without hearing; each testified that Michael was abusive to Terri and may have attempted to kill her by insulin injection and attempts to induce pneumonia by turning the thermostat in her room to 64 degrees.

    2) Michael Baden, top forensic pathologist in country and interviewed on Fox News National Television broadcast October 25, 2003 on Terri's bone scan and injuries states that:

    a) Terri's injuries are not consistent with a heart attack; no cardiac evidence to support it

    b) Extremely rare for potassium imbalance on woman her age and in her good health

    c) Injuries are consistent with severe trauma possibly caused by a beating

    d) The injuries in medical records warrant an immediate investigation

    3) Dr. William Hammesfahr, Nobel prize nominee and neurologist testified that Terri's neck injuries are consistent with only one type of injury: that of strangulation.

    4) Terri's doctor, Dr. Gambone resigned; he had previously testified Terri would die within a few days of starvation/dehydration. Terri has an obvious will to live.

    5) Michael has enlisted the services of a new doctor, Stanton Tripodis, who has 5 malpractice suits against him. Clearly, Michael is attempting to provide sub-standard care for his wife.

    Case no. 97007946C1 filed 11-25-97
    Case no. 94003739C1 filed 6-27-94
    Case no. 95000873C1 filed 2-14-95
    Case no. 96001434C1 filed 3-6-96
    Case no. 98002289C1 filed 4-7-98

    6) Michael is committing adultery by living with another woman who has already born one child with another on the way, thereby creating an obvious conflict of interest as guardian.

    7) Michael has committed both perjury (2 counts) and insurance fraud by promising to provide care and therapy for his wife in exchange for the court award of 1.2 million dollars in 1993. No care has ever been provided to Terri.

    8) Michael Schiavo has also prevented Terri from undergoing a barium swallow test, a procedure necessary to ascertain the consistency of foods able to be taken by mouth.

    9) Co-conspirator George J. Felos combined and conspired with Michael Schiavo to arrange for Terri's "free" stay at Hospice Woodside as part of an "exit protocol" designed to advance Felos' self-perceived messianic mission of "helping" incapacitated people to die by categorizing them as "terminal," warehousing them, and depriving them of therapy and rehabilitation services. (Attorney Felos is Director of Florida Right to Die and has testified that he can ascertain a person's desire to die by "looking into their eyes and letting their spirit speak directly to him")

    10) Investigate Insurance company established in Jan 2001 at the home of Michael Schiavo and his girlfriend/fiancee Jody Centonze. (Jerger and Centonze Insurnace Agency Inc.) Michael is listed on the Board of Directors for the corporation. Note: Insurance is deliberately misspelled in the State of Florida Corporate filing, possibly to avoid investigation.

    11) Michael continues to deny Terri the right to receive Holy Communion as part of her Catholic and civil rights."

    Jim Huffman, RN
  4. by   Tweety
    Quote from Chad_KY_SRNA
    I don't want to sound inhumane but I can't imagine sitting there for years watching the person I love stuck in a vegatative state.

    Chad, some would think that inhumane, but I don't. I would not under any circumstances let my parents or my spouse remain in such a state year after year. And not because I would want to move on with my life, but because I love them too much to allow that to happen.

    We'll never know what's going on in Terri's husbands head, and I'm a little suspect myself of him.
  5. by   Kyriaka
    Quote from Roland
    Have any of you considered the possibility that Terri might be able to eat and drink without benefit of a tube? The parents have repeatedly requested that she be allowed a swallowing test (usually conducted by Speech Therapy), but the husband has refused to even allow this. If she is actually able to eat orally we really ARE starving her to death in a manner that almost no one would support. I would argue that the nurses (and Doctors) at Woodside Hospise should possibly lose their licenses to practice for participating in such a cruel act. Even if I supported euthanasia I wouldn't support it in such a slow and cruel manner. We are constantly taught in nursing school to recognize that even people who appear comatose may still feel pain and discomfort. Even if I believed that Terri was in a so called Persistant Vegitative State (which I don't) where is the reseach to demonstrate that those in persistant vegitative states do not also feel discomfort, thirst, and or hunger

    Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:19 a.m. EST
    Nurse: Terri Can Eat Normally

    A certified nursing assistant who cared for Terri Schiavo in 1997 filed a sworn affidavit in the case stating that she was able to feed Schiavo normally on multiple occasions - but that husband Michael Schiavo would allow only a feeding tube.

    Heidi Law, a CNA at the Palm Gardens nursing home, testified:

    Story Continues Below



    "At least three times during any shift where I took care of Terri, I made sure to give Terri a wet washcloth filled with ice chips, to keep her mouth moistened. I personally saw her swallow the ice water and never saw her gag.
    "[Another CNA] and I frequently put orange juice or apple juice in her washcloth to give her something nice to taste, which made her happy. On three or four occasions I personally fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jello, which she was able to swallow and enjoyed immensely."

    Law testified that the only reason she didn't attempt to feed Ms. Schiavo more frequently was "because I was so afraid of being caught by Michael."

    Editorializing on the case in light of Law's account, the Pittsburgh Post Gazette said Sunday, "It is one thing to withdraw a feeding tube; another entirely to withhold that day's meal tray."

    Carla Sauer Iyer was a registered nurse at the same facility. In her own affidavit Iyer testified that Ms. Schiavo was capable of speech, explaining, "[Terri] spoke on a regular basis, saying such things as 'Mommy' and 'help me.'"

    When she put a washcloth in Terri's hands to keep her fingers from curling together, Iyer said, "Michael saw it and made me take it out, saying that was therapy" that he had forbidden.

    "Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri's death," the RN noted. "Michael would say 'When is she going to die?' 'Has she died yet?' and 'When is that ***** gonna die?'"


    Editor's note:
    _____________
    You know, this is very intersting. There was a story that rean a few weeks ago on the BBC about a little girl (7 years old) that all of her life she has been on a feeding tube.

    Well, apparently the "experts" have been wrong all her life. She only had swollen tonsils.

    The story was how she was eating for the first time.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...cs/4296231.stm

    ***
    An article ran today in the Jerusalem Post what Jewish Law is in regards to hydration. Terri is not Orthodox Jewish, but I thought the article was interesting.
    http://www.jewishworldreview.com/030...avo_spero.php3
    Last edit by Kyriaka on Mar 21, '05
  6. by   Kyriaka
    Quote from aileenve
    Why did'nt her parents petition the court to be her guardians after the husband has another woman and 2 children?? Also once the feeding tube was put in it should have been left alone, it is very sad...
    ____________
    My understanding is that they did, but the judge granted the husband full guardianship since he is legally her husband. No divorce can be granted without his permission.

    You are right, it is sad.

    My question is, where are the feminists?
  7. by   nursepotter05
    If Congress is allowed to override the husband, who is the next of kin, and the person legally responsible for making health-care decisions for her, then where does this stop? That is what concerns me. Whether one agrees with her husband's decision or not, it is his decision to make. My concern is that after this, hospital's will be forced to have the entire immediate family agree on decisions, such as turning off life support. I agree with an earlier post that asked what the difference in this is from turning off a vent on a COPD patient who is not brain dead. I have read that her parents say her husband just wants money. My question to that is where would he get any money? Any life insurance money he would have gotten would be taken by medical bills wouldn't it? I think it is sad. After 15 years and she hasn't improved at all, it should be obvious that she will never get better. I just know that I would not want to live like that, nor would I want my family members to, either.
  8. by   Kyriaka
    Quote from TNnurse05
    If Congress is allowed to override the husband, who is the next of kin, and the person legally responsible for making health-care decisions for her, then where does this stop? That is what concerns me. Whether one agrees with her husband's decision or not, it is his decision to make. My concern is that after this, hospital's will be forced to have the entire immediate family agree on decisions, such as turning off life support. I agree with an earlier post that asked what the difference in this is from turning off a vent on a COPD patient who is not brain dead. I have read that her parents say her husband just wants money. My question to that is where would he get any money? Any life insurance money he would have gotten would be taken by medical bills wouldn't it? I think it is sad. After 15 years and she hasn't improved at all, it should be obvious that she will never get better. I just know that I would not want to live like that, nor would I want my family members to, either.
    ________________
    so far as improvement, no one knows for sure. Most people's spouses allow them physical therapy. Especially when it is offered free of charge!
  9. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from TNnurse05
    If Congress is allowed to override the husband, who is the next of kin, and the person legally responsible for making health-care decisions for her, then where does this stop? That is what concerns me. Whether one agrees with her husband's decision or not, it is his decision to make. My concern is that after this, hospital's will be forced to have the entire immediate family agree on decisions, such as turning off life support. I agree with an earlier post that asked what the difference in this is from turning off a vent on a COPD patient who is not brain dead. I have read that her parents say her husband just wants money. My question to that is where would he get any money? Any life insurance money he would have gotten would be taken by medical bills wouldn't it? I think it is sad. After 15 years and she hasn't improved at all, it should be obvious that she will never get better. I just know that I would not want to live like that, nor would I want my family members to, either.
    Where it should stop should be decided on a case by case basis. That is why the Democrats are insisting upon a bill specifically crafted to this one instance. It does not appear that her husband has Terri's best interests at heart. These cases are, fortunately, few and far between. They are usually settled by the family within days, weeks, or months of the injury. If they can't be, in a situation like this, then by all means, all parties should be heard from.
  10. by   Ventjock
    since the bible has come up a lot I jsut wanted to post this. i dont know if anyone else has b/c its only 30 pages long, but here it goes.

    "Ephesians 5:33 (New International Version)
    33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband"

    I know he doesnt love his Terri, b/c I'm sure he wouldnt want to treated like that if he was the one on the tube. Maybe he loved her b4, but now it his actions say no. He's only in it to get the insurance money and boy is he tryin. he should be responsible for her, in any other case, the husband should be, but clearly his actions show his motives.
  11. by   bugsbee
    I continue to support Terri's husband. He definitely must love her more then her parents. Her parents want to keep her alive for their own selfish reasons. I think politics do not have a place in this decision.
  12. by   RN4ustat
    What a terrible and tragic situation for all those involved. It is unforunate that this situation has reached the point that the government feels that they should step in and intervene. I don't mean to sound harsh but the government has bigger issues they should be dealing with (the war in Iraq, terrorism, gas prices, etc). Think of the precendent that will be set and the ramifications that it will have. What effect, if any, will it have on advanced directives??

    This situation has made me do some serious soul searching. I have made it abundantly clear to all of my family members that I wouldn't want to live in a chronic vegatative state and I've signed an advanced directive. They all understand and I'm sure they would appreciate not having to make these difficult decisions if God forbid, the need should ever arise.
  13. by   James Huffman
    Quote from bugsbee
    I continue to support Terri's husband. He definitely must love her more then her parents. Her parents want to keep her alive for their own selfish reasons. I think politics do not have a place in this decision.
    Mr. Schiavo's "love" is certainly an unusual variety. Please note the following:



    "A certified nursing assistant who cared for Terri Schiavo in 1997 filed a sworn affidavit in the case stating that she was able to feed Schiavo normally on multiple occasions - but that husband Michael Schiavo would only allow a feeding tube.

    Heidi Law, a CNA at the Palm Gardens nursing home, testified:

    "At least three times during any shift where I took care of Terri, I made sure to give Terri a wet washcloth filled with ice chips, to keep her mouth moistened. I personally saw her swallow the ice water and never saw her gag.

    "[Another CNA] and I frequently put orange juice or apple juice in her washcloth to give her something nice to taste, which made her happy. On three or four occasions I personally fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jello, which she was able to swallow and enjoyed immensely."

    Law testified that the only reason she didn't attempt to feed Ms. Schiavo more frequently was "because I was so afraid of being caught by Michael."

    Editorializing on the case in light of Law's account, the Pittsburgh Post Gazette said Sunday: "It is one thing to withdraw a feeding tube; another entirely to withhold that day's meal tray."

    Carla Sauer Iyer was a registered nurse at the same facility. In her own affidavit Iyer testified that Ms. Schiavo was capable of speech, explaining, "[Terri] spoke on a regular basis, saying such things as 'Mommy' and 'help me.'"

    When she put a washcloth in Terri's hands to keep her fingers from curling together, Iyer said, "Michael saw it and made me take it out, saying that was therapy" that he had forbidden.

    "Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri's death," the RN noted. "Michael would say 'When is she going to die?' 'Has she died yet?' and 'When is that ***** gonna die?'"

    Jim Huffman, RN

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