Are For Profit Schools really BAD?

dienw · Aug 10, 2017

NCLEX pass rates are a poor way to evaluate a school. The NCLEX pass rate only tells you what percentage of their graduates pass the NCLEX. What you really need to know is what percentage of the people who originally enroll pass the NCLEX. Attrition rates in for-profit schools are generally high. If 95% pass the NCLEX but only 75% of the students who start actually graduate, that's not very good. Many schools, both for-profit and taxpayer funded schools give exit exams to manipulate the pass rate percentages. If you don't do well on the exit exam, you aren't allowed to graduate. This prevents weaker students from taking the NCLEX.

The other thing you want to know is how many students graduate on time, not just graduate. The accrediting agencies consider on-time graduation to be 150% of the scheduled program duration. If you take 6 semesters to complete a 4 semester program, technically you are considered an on time graduate.

SummitRN, BSN, RN · Aug 10, 2017

There are a lot of posts about this in the CO forum.

The first thing you should know is seriously consider a BSN or you will face hirability problems in the Denver Metro unless you are well connected from previous healthcare experience... and even then. Don't brush this off... you don't want to move for school, but do you want to move for you first job? Or spend 9+ months to get a position that is far from your dream? Do NOT get an ASN from a for-profit and expect to be competitive in the Denver market as a new grad.

The second thing you should know is that most programs, including the community colleges, are now merit based entry. That means if you look good enough compared to the pool of applicants, you will get in on the first try! The "takes 3 applications" is a bunch of hooey they throw out to scare off people who are only kind of interested. Also, several schools will let you apply with some pre-reqs outstanding at the time of application.

There are several public BSN options on the front range:

CU-Denver

Metro State

UCCS

UNC

CU-Pueblo

There is one highly reputable private-NON-PROFIT and you would be silly to disregard this excellent option if you are considering the cost involved with a private school:

Regis

I'd go to any of those before I went to a For-Profit. If I tried to go to all of those and was rejected, I would then be split between improving my application strength, looking at a more-reputable For-Profit like DSN for a BSN, or going to an inexpensive community college that has an agreement with a university. Several community college in Denver let you earn you BSN while earning your ASN through a dual enrollment agreement with Metro State or UCCS!

Dual Enrollment | Department of Nursing | MSU Denver

Bachelor of Science in Nursing - Dual Enrollment RN to BSN - Online* -

Helen and Arthur E. Johnson Beth-El College of Nursing & Health Sciences | University of Colorado Colorado Springs

Don't go to a for-profit for an associates degree... that is the worst decision you can make professionally and financially.

If I wanted the best chance of getting into a specialty unit quickly like ED as you mentioned, you need a BSN and you should try to go to a highly regarded program like CU-Denver or Regis... your school's clinical options will influence your opportunities as much as the reputation of the school (and they are intertwined). These schools get the best placements. DSN has fewer good placements. You could always end up in one of them and do well like a poster in this thread, but the odds are less in your favor.

DSN ASN: 45K

CC ASN: ~15K

DSN BSN: 57K

Public BSN: ~22K

cayenne06, MSN, CNM · Aug 10, 2017

I did not attend a for-profit school, but I did decide to pay for a much more expensive program that was straight merit based admission vs the whole community college wait list thing. The debt from that associate's degree is way, way more than my bachelors and graduate education. But the tradeoff is I was able to start working as a nurse and continue my education much much quicker. The extra income from starting early will balance out the loans in many cases, depending on your interest rate.

But yeah. I pay about 700 a month in student loans. It's a bummer, but I wouldn't change my decision. Well maybe I should have at least put in an application at a CC, just to see what happens. But I wanted to get it done, I was on a mission!

But you need to be very careful when considering a for-profit college. I personally would not go that route, even if it meant delaying my education. It's a big risk, unless you are able to find a school with a solid reputation.

johsonmichelle · Aug 10, 2017

When it comes to nursing school , you need to think finances. As a new grad , you will not be making a lot of money , the for profit schools are usually easy to get into but cost of a lot money. As an older student , consider your current debt and how much you are willing to add to it . I'm much younger than you , I'm almost a year into this professsion and I'm very happy to have graduated with little debt . Nurse don't make as much as the general public seems to think . It's better to take the longer route especially, if you can save yourself from thousands of debt.

allnurses Guide · Aug 10, 2017

A couple of additional things to consider:

1. If the school is not accredited you will be limiting your earning and advancement potential for the rest of your life. May for-profit schools aren't, so you will need to investigate this. A nurse education at a non-accredited school will eliminate your eligibility at some employers and will keep you from being able to easily advance your education should you wish to or need to.

2. Don't go into it thinking you will get into the ER, simply because that is one of the most desired specialties out there. In Denver, a two year degree is unlikely to get looked at for any of the acute care jobs, particularly not popular specialties like ER, ICU, L&D or pediatrics. Will you be happy with that much debt working in a job you didn't even want?

Schneid1 · Aug 10, 2017

After reading through all of these really helpful posts I am still undecided on For- or Non- profit but it is clear t me I need to get a BSN and not an associates!

compassionresearcher · Aug 10, 2017

After reading through all of these really helpful posts I am still undecided on For- or Non- profit but it is clear t me I need to get a BSN and not an associates!

Do you have a bachelor's in something else? Would an accelerated BSN be an option for you? I agree with the others, go the affordable route. It's worth the wait. You may get to your first job quicker but what if you don't like it and then you're stuck with all that debt. I did the community college route and then worked at hospitals with tuition reimbursement programs and paid very little for my education thankfully.

kakamegamama · Aug 10, 2017

I wish you the best in whatever choice you make. However, the "ripe old age" of 40? Why, you're still a spring chicken!!! Thanks for the chuckle on this otherwise sobering day.

Jolie, BSN · Aug 10, 2017

NCLEX pass rates are a poor way to evaluate a school. The NCLEX pass rate only tells you what percentage of their graduates pass the NCLEX. What you really need to know is what percentage of the people who originally enroll pass the NCLEX. Attrition rates in for-profit schools are generally high. If 95% pass the NCLEX but only 75% of the students who start actually graduate, that's not very good. Many schools, both for-profit and taxpayer funded schools give exit exams to manipulate the pass rate percentages. If you don't do well on the exit exam, you aren't allowed to graduate. This prevents weaker students from taking the NCLEX.
The other thing you want to know is how many students graduate on time, not just graduate. The accrediting agencies consider on-time graduation to be 150% of the scheduled program duration. If you take 6 semesters to complete a 4 semester program, technically you are considered an on time graduate.

This! Thank you for an excellent post.

Schneid1 · Aug 10, 2017

Yes this is all just great info! Thank so much to those of you with experience for sharing!

ayuhime, BSN · Aug 10, 2017

I applied to Denver School of Nursing and I got accepted into the program. It was easy for me because I already have a bachelor degree. I declined their acceptance because the reviews were awful and I saw on one of the Denver's news website that a girl got suspended/expelled from the school because she posted a bad review on Denver School of Nursing's facebook page. I am from out of state and if I am paying a lot of money to go to a nursing school, I want to make sure their NCLEX pass rates are great and that it has a good reputation.

yourshoesareuntied · Aug 11, 2017

My mother is a college professor that has taught in various universities in their nursing program, normally BSN to MSN. She is also a hospital administrator that has many years of recruiting experience. She advised me the same way she advises many of her employees, that is to avoid for profit schools if possible. There is a thing going on with many of them right now and they are abruptly closing, and leaving students hanging. It has something to do with how the federal government allocates GI bills and government backed student loans. Basically many of the for profit schools have been cut off, has something to do with a review of unpaid student loans, success ratios of students that complete their degree and then something about the amount of money veterans are billed through their GI. The advice I was given has nothing to do with the quality of the program or how employers respond to graduates from those schools, just to know what you are getting into. Do a google search for non profit schools closing and there is something interesting going on with university of phoenix their enrolment levels are tanking, I believe because of the change of the funding listed above.