Petition to help new grads get experience

Mulan · Jan 13, 2013

When I graduated from nursing school I got an internship in oncology that was funded through a government grant. I think there should be more programs like this out there for nurses. It is a great learning environment,, and got certified in chemo. It gave me the tools I needed to be a better nurse. Obviously, our government has an enormous amount of debt, but hopefully in the future there can more internships for new nurses.

How long was your internship?

Altra, BSN, RN · Jan 13, 2013

There is a MYTH that CMS and insurances do not pay for nursing care...they do...they set the rates for reimbursement, and it is up to the agency to pick up the rest of the tab from the budget. Our rates are dependent on a portion of insurance reimbursement and the hospitals' operating costs...some prefer to include pricing by specialty...I just work in a part of the field that was very upfront on how they calculate wages...I worked with two different HH agencies...each said they are bound by insurance and CMS rates for nursing care, HOWEVER, the other company added dollars because they VALUED nurses and want to make sure they retained the best nurses (their speil , not mine)...and wages were more if you were a trach/vent nurse. You not always see it in the bedside at a large facility, but the reimbursement is there...I don't care how many times I post this, until we as nurses get it...we get reimbursed.

This is not correct. Medicare benefits include some provisions which directly reimburse certain agencies for nursing care including some home health, skilled nursing, and rehabilitation. You are correct that rates can vary by specialty.

However, in the inpatient/acute care world, hospitals billing for Medicare patients receive reimbursement by DRG and/or procedure code. There are no rates that specify payment for nursing care.

You are attempting to compare apples and oranges.

JZ_RN · Jan 13, 2013

If you are going to school, use the school's internet.
Use the local library's internet. Shoot, borrow a friend's laptop and use the free McDonalds/Starbucks/Panera WiFi.
In this day and age, if you don't have internet access, it's because you don't want it and are actively avoiding it.

When you're 17 and just starting out in college, sorry if you're not totally savvy on economics. Pardon me for once being naive. And frankly, you clearly don't understand what it's like to live in poverty. I didn't seek this job strictly so I could make money, I wanted to help people. Maybe you have never needed and never had to live in a situation where you had no electricity because your parents were laid off and you needed to work a crappy min. wage job to pay your tuition and get gas to go to classes but you're also pretty nasty and rude. And no, wifi wasn't everywhere in my rural town and I had no internet access. I didn't even have heat. And.... Lazy? Maybe I wasn't surfing the internet at my job like a lot of the more "experienced" nurses I've seen because I was working my butt off and studying like a fiend. Judge not, I see you got some C's. I think you are the one who needs a REALITY CHECK... or maybe just to be checked.

canigraduate · Jan 13, 2013

It seems like I touched a nerve. I'm sorry for offending you.

Congratulations for starting college so early. That must have taken some effort.

I will stand by my statement that in this day and age, internet access is readily available. If you can't get it, you're not trying.

I didn't say anything about poverty or naiveté, so I won't address that. And thank you for bringing up my earlier failure in academics. It helps me to remain centered. I always find it amusing when other people try to throw the past up as a barrier to communication. I hope you have a good evening.

itrust · Jan 13, 2013

LadyFree28 can you comment on quote below:

"nursing repayment programs, or the Perkins Loan forgiveness (or not eligible to)."

Can you please elaborate on these two, I'm so inundated with debt I often have restless nights thinking about how I am going to pay it all back (tears often follow). I already ruled out kids since I want to purchase a house. I'm a career changer btw. I applied for the HRSA scholarship, they checked my credit but I ultimately didn't get an invite for the scholarship. I plan on applying for their nurse loan repayment program but I doubt I will get that as well. I have excellent credit, a good GPA but like someone referenced above the competition is fierce nowadays. I guess a 3.8 is too low for most of these scholarships, hopefully I can secure a residency, sigh.

That Guy, BSN, RN, EMT-B · Jan 13, 2013

And just another reason people dont take nursing seriously.

Here is a hand holding service for after you graduate. I would rather burn this petition and the entitlement crap behind it. Getting through school/passing NCLEX doesnt mean you automatically get a job.

joanna73, BSN, RN · Jan 13, 2013

While nurses should unite and come to a consensus on various issues, I still don't agree that signing a petition for new grads is appropriate. We were all new grads once, and some of us not so long ago. Yes, it is tough and unfair....but life is unfair for many others at the moment. There seems to be a certain sense of entitlement and arrogance among some new grads, which is obvious from some of the posts throughout this site. There are jobs. However, the market IS competitive, and relocation is sometimes the only answer if you expect to work immediately. It is also not the fault of the school. No one is actively forcing money out of your hands. When you make decisions, you live with the consequences. Keep applying.

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Jan 13, 2013

This is not correct. Medicare benefits include some provisions which directly reimburse certain agencies for nursing care including some home health, skilled nursing, and rehabilitation. You are correct that rates can vary by specialty.
However, in the inpatient/acute care world, hospitals billing for Medicare patients receive reimbursement by DRG and/or procedure code. There are no rates that specify payment for nursing care.
You are attempting to compare apples and oranges.

Not comparing apples to oranges...was giving one example. I can get into the DRG, but that is a total different tree as well...in chart reviewing, CMS uses a totally different set of codes for reimbursement, use of percentages of severity, etc..-talk about apples and oranges-I did chart reviews for CMS through a contractor and I reviewed charts in hospitals and Drs offices, and free standing centers in my area. I will go further in the hospital economics arena:

To explain, most hospitals are still given a percentage based on "unit hours"...units hours are based on the trend of how much total pt care a unit has seen over a period if time, and the budget is set based on past trends. The rate is still set based on CMS, insurance, etc, plus hospital budget If you ever work somewhere where there is a skill mix, LPNs are credited as 0.5 of an RN, PCTs are 0.1, RNs are 1.0. I still stand by my statement that nurses ARE billed, regardless of HOW, it is still credited.

Again, the bigger picture is how there is the myth of somehow we are BELOW a WORTH, seen as a number, etc, etc....When there is still a general consensus that we are STILL IN DEMAND and most people do RESPECT our profession, and we are COUNTED...again, in terms of economics, and salary levels, there are a few more variables, average cost of living, etc. I also agree that nurses salaries have remained stagnant as other costs have risen, but the trend states other wages have remained stagnant while upper management and CEOs have exploded. That is more of an issue that needs to be examined.

As for the responses I have seen about discussing the "money"; it may be a sore spot from some posters, but it needs to be discussed. There are a number (I believe thousands) in recent graduate cycle that are in it for the money, however, that shouldn't bar the subject because there are MILLIONS of nurses out there that truly enjoy their profession and still want a work life balance without working to death. This is not the era from 1860-1950, where people work to death and make money fir the "chosen few". In my opinion, like one if my nursing instructors said "you will not get rich being a nurse, but you will be able to make a living." We do have a right to make a living, no doubt about that...In previous posts I have already explained the government's process (ACA, Jobs bill, Federal Loan Forgiveness Act) that are hotly contested, as well as have been tabled that have provisions that help nurses and healthcare, as well as grant and loan repayment programs that help nurses as well, but to clarify, I believe the petitioner did want to start dialog. The government has programs in place that ARE NOT related to the fiscal budget...that is the fiscal, day to day debt. Is if related??? If there was less deficit, then would there be more money per year to give to a larger population...I'm not sure. This is also another subject to be taken into account...again, knowing how the system works goes a long way into finding solutions as well. Again, I suggest posters to do your homework on what areas you can get into (if any)...even volunteering for certain government sponsored programs can get money knocked off of your loans. Google government repayment programs...HHS and HRSA have programs for nurses, as well as states still have nursing forgiveness programs as well...this information can be started on another thread. But the information is out there!!! It's worth a try!!!

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Jan 13, 2013

LadyFree28 can you comment on quote below:
"nursing repayment programs, or the Perkins Loan forgiveness (or not eligible to)."
Can you please elaborate on these two, I'm so inundated with debt I often have restless nights thinking about how I am going to pay it all back (tears often follow). I already ruled out kids since I want to purchase a house. I'm a career changer btw. I applied for the HRSA scholarship, they checked my credit but I ultimately didn't get an invite for the scholarship. I plan on applying for their nurse loan repayment program but I doubt I will get that as well. I have excellent credit, a good GPA but like someone referenced above the competition is fierce nowadays. I guess a 3.8 is too low for most of these scholarships, hopefully I can secure a residency, sigh.

itrust, here is the link to the complete list of HRSA programs:

http://www.hrsa.gov/loanscholarships/index.html

A full list of repayments, approved government programs that can assist with paying down your loan. This list includes other occupations as well, however, the volunteer programs are open to all:

http://www.finaid.org/loans/forgiveness.phtml

As for Perkins loan forgiveness, most states list it as well...check your state for specifics...I'm in PA, and I know a co-worker who used the Perkins Forgiveness.

Again, the loan Repayment is competitive, but so is nursing school! It is worth a try...they have a tier based system, so it is not just hospitals but clinics and non-profits are counted. So think outside the box, and try!!

Also, I've had restless nights about repaying the loan. They have ways to recalculate based on current income. Take advantage of these options. If you can get a deferment, please do if that is you last resort...work for city year and teach a health course while you work with kids...Volunteer for the homeless, use your clinical bag and do BP screenings...Go into the Peace Corp and use that as a means to help improve access of care...again, think out of the box.

As for getting a home and your own personal future...I went into Nursing School with a 800 dollar mortgage...I knew what I was doing...and I came out with a loan repayment of 550/month, as well as a past loan for LPN school and a previous degree which included my prerequisites (eligible for forgiveness) which is an additional 180 dollars, so I essentially have an additional "mortgage payment" I still have my house, and its not in foreclosure, I defer my previous loan and paid a portion on the principal, and Sallie Mae has a repayment calculation I am using, if I am not approved of my forbearance. I set this up before I had the opportunity to accept a new grad position. I knew what I was getting into, despite all my economic hardships, personal setbacks and difficulties. My parents couldn't afford college, I did get scholarships early, but my test anxiety, as well as I have a cyclothymia trait which affected my schoolwork. I was on a 12 year plan for getting my BSN. Yes working as an LPN did help, but also hindered my chances in getting a job...they still wanted RN experience...I knew that too. I've had a lot of personal setbacks, but this economy strain, to me is EASY compared to what I've been through. If you have survived nursing school, have the confidence to survive this economic crisis. There are ways and opportunities. I believe education is an investment, even if it means investing your time finding creative ways to pay it back. It is upsetting, however, I am confident that you will be able to achieve your goals.

KelRN215, BSN, RN · Jan 13, 2013

No hospital here hires new grad RNs, they all require 1 year acute care experience. Well how exactly do you get that? Magic?

I see that you are from Massachusetts. I am too and this statement is untrue. I was a hospital nurse from the time I was a new grad (2007) until last April. Beginning in the summer of 2011, my hospital began exclusively hiring new grads because they were cheaper. From July of 2011 to when I left in April of 2012, my floor alone hired six new grads. I know they have hired even more since then. (They have also lost over 25% of their experienced staff in that time.) This is the most hiring they have done since the economy tanked... in 2009, we hired ONE nurse and in 2010, two. You do, however, need a BSN to be considered for any new grad positions at most hospitals here. That's a fact that's well known and well advertised though and I agree with others that students/new grads need to take some responsibility for their decisions. If someone chooses to go into nursing in this economy without researching the job opportunities they will have with their chosen degree, I disagree that it's the government's responsibility to find them a job. If you don't have access to the internet at home to do this research, a library card is free and you can use the library's internet as long as you have a card. The hospital in the town I grew up in (40 minutes outside of Boston), has several RN listings on their website that do not require experience nor a BSN.

Nightingallow · Jan 13, 2013

And just another reason people dont take nursing seriously.
Here is a hand holding service for after you graduate. I would rather burn this petition and the entitlement crap behind it. Getting through school/passing NCLEX doesnt mean you automatically get a job.

"Those who burn books will eventually burn people" - Heinrich Heine

ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP · Jan 13, 2013

Where is this petition>?
I have a suggestion to help those that are struggling to find jobs AFTER getting out of school....but hindsight is 20/20
Work....yes work..while you are in school...and shine so they WANT to hire you at THAT institution...why...
1. EXPERIENCE>...while it may not be RN experience it sure will lessen that institutions burden of hiring you and the learning curve is less because you already know the hospital(or institution)
2. Get a 4 year degree....yes it IS true...They put new grads with 4 year degrees to the head of the line over all others...
WHat my opinion of all this is matters not...and yours doesn't either...these are the cold hard facts...at least in the job market I am in.
3. Expecting a great job right out of school....lucky if that happens but yes we do work off shifts.weekends and holidays....undesirable staff positions(for those of you that think med surg is a crap hole some of us are honored to be working there and you dont have to have a career aspiration beyond being a "regular bedside nurse". I am praying some of you new grads will LOVE bedside nursing as I may need you sooner than I plan!!!!!
Good luck..practice also interviewing and being assertive....Confidence etc. Dress the part for interviews. I can recall once two friends came in for an interview together and well they looked like they were coming to work together to hang out as friends. Its a place to work...making friends is a bonus...bringing them with you...not required.

Great post. I have found that those who worked as nurse's aides while in school AND attended an accredited BSN program had very little trouble finding jobs, and I live in a super competitive area. Hence why I am working two different jobs at two different facilities. :)