Apparently per the EEOC's guidelines employers (not just healthcare related) can mandate vaccination of workers. The exception is a "sincerely held religious belief" or a covered disability. Just found out this morning that a chain of for profit LTC/SNF's are rolling out a Covid vaccine mandate for all direct care staff or face indefinite unpaid administrative leave. I am a heavy supporter of vaccination and of the new COVID vaccine and in fact am due to get one in early January. But I am doing so of my own volition. My facility encouraged all workers to sign up for a vaccine and provided information sessions and it's been really effective at getting people to sign up.
Even though I would disagree with someone's choice to not vaccinate, I don't believe they should be mandated at this point.
Just so that you are aware of how untrustworthy your sources are.
2 hours ago, nursej22 said:
If those statistics are indeed accurate then it probably implies (given the high number of deaths reported to VAERS a passive surveillance system that likely undercounts adverse events) that more people in those nations are dying of the vaccines than the virus
I'm going with hhern and nursej22 on this. You took a zero death rate and turned it into a negative so yes, I also am concerned for your well-being. Take care.
If those statistics are indeed accurate then it probably implies (given the high number of deaths reported to VAERS a passive surveillance system that likely undercounts adverse events) that more people in those nations are dying of the vaccines than the virus and yet so many approve of mandating it for healthcare workers
What on earth is wrong with you? You claim that you aren’t a troll. Fine. But your posts are troubling. You are demonstrating that you completely lack the capacity to think logically.
A rational person’s first guess when Covid-19 deaths decrease after a large part of the population has been vaccinated with vaccines that have been tested in phase 3 trials and shown to reduce serious illness and mortality, would be that the vaccines are having the hoped for and expected effect.
Your first guess is thatdeathsare a zero-sum occurrence and if fewer people die from Covid-19 infections then they must be dying from vaccines. There is no nice way to say this. That thinking is unhinged and has no basis in reality.
I asked you in a previous post if you’d join me in celebrating the news that deaths were down by 95% and hospitalizations down by 86% in a Brazilian city after they vaccinated 75% of their adult population. You never replied to that, but I guess I have my answer.
Do you understand that in large parts of the world people have been infected with Covid-19 and have spent their last time on this earth gasping for air due to shortages of oxygen? Do you realize that they have been throwing dead bodies in rivers in India and that metal parts in crematoriums have melted because they’ve had them going full blast 24/7? Do you realize that healthcare systems across the globe have been taxed to, and in some cases beyond their breaking point?
Do you understand that the vaccines are a blessing and that they will save countless lives and prevent human suffering?
I am starting to worry about your emotional health. Please take care of yourself, and let others make their own decisions about vaccinations.
My emotional health is optimal and it is the ability to make our own decisions about vaccinations without fear of job loss or other discrimination that I am striving so hard to maintain. I have had at least three private messages on this board thanking me for making a point that they "fear" making in that sense I speak for others too afraid to "speak their mind" on this issue. Many here would advocate policies that would remove our ability to work as RN's and obtain education unless we submit to vaccinations that we wish not to partake in at this time especially given that we have already had Covid. Also, the graph that you displayed is so small that I cannot even read the second country referenced only the UK.
What on earth is wrong with you? You claim that you aren’t a troll. Fine. But your posts are troubling. You are demonstrating that you completely lack the capacity to think logically.
A rational person’s first guess when Covid-19 deaths decrease after a large part of the population has been vaccinated with vaccines that have been tested in phase 3 trials and shown to reduce serious illness and mortality, would be that the vaccines are having the hoped for and expected effect.
Your first guess is thatdeathsare a zero-sum occurrence and if fewer people die from Covid-19 infections then they must be dying from vaccines. There is no nice way to say this. That thinking is unhinged and has no basis in reality.
I am pointing out that vaccines have "benefits and risks". The VAERS database records many adverse reactions (including deaths) and has been incredulously "dismissed" by experts that I believe to be operating with bias I appreciate the benefits of vaccines, but ask that you also acknowledge the intrinsic risks and respect the right of professionals to decline the vaccine(s) and still keep their jobs especially while it remains emergency use. Also allowing the ability to show antibodies to Covid in lieu of vaccination seems reasonable.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
9 minutes ago, myoglobin said:
My emotional health is optimal and it is the ability to make our own decisions about vaccinations without fear of job loss or other discrimination that I am striving so hard to maintain. Many here would advocate policies that would remove our ability to work as RN's and obtain education unless we submit to vaccinations that we wish not to partake in at this time especially given that we have already had Covid. Also, the graph that you displayed is so small that I cannot even read the second country referenced only the UK.
Sure
The evidence suggests that your emotional health is not OK...your important life choices are directed by fears and anxieties...
If you really can't read graphs or data the best option might be to say that before offering some weird interpretation which would make anyone question your emotional health. It's like you are making an entire series of questionable and emotional decisions because of your emotions about this pandemic and the vaccines.
Just so that you are aware of how untrustworthy your sources are.
I'm going with hhern and nursej22 on this. You took a zero death rate and turned it into a negative so yes, I also am concerned for your well-being. Take care.
I would of course allege that most so called "mainstream sources" such as MSNBC, CNN and NPR are left of center with sourcing that is equally bias. When "one side" controls the "fact checking" business it gets the distinction of defining reality. My job here is not to serve the dominant mainstream but to speak for the masses who resist mandatory vaccination or face loss of our jobs, our ability to go to school and generally function in society.
The evidence suggests that your emotional health is not OK...your important life choices are directed by fears and anxieties...
If you really can't read graphs or data the best option might be to say that before offering some weird interpretation which would make anyone question your emotional health. It's like you are making an entire series of questionable and emotional decisions because of your emotions about this pandemic and the vaccines.
Also, I care for more than 700 clients seeing me for various challenges of a psychological nature. Were I to question their "emotional health" in a public venue it would be considered at best poor taste and in many circles downright "hate speech". How about we stick to debating the topics rather than personal attacks?
My emotional health is optimal and it is the ability to make our own decisions about vaccinations without fear of job loss or other discrimination that I am striving so hard to maintain. I have had at least three private messages on this board thanking me for making a point that they "fear" making in that sense I speak for others too afraid to "speak their mind" on this issue. Many here would advocate policies that would remove our ability to work as RN's and obtain education unless we submit to vaccinations that we wish not to partake in at this time especially given that we have already had Covid. Also, the graph that you displayed is so small that I cannot even read the second country referenced only the UK.
I have no idea how your emotional health is but your logical thinking is deeply flawed.
The other line can only be Israel since it’s the only country that was ahead of the UK in regards to vaccination coverage. If you kept abreast with the developing research instead of reading revolver news, you would have known that. Some of the earliest data on vaccine efficacy on a population level we’ve seen is from Israel.
This post doesn’t in any way explain why you think that a significant decrease of Covid-related deaths in the UK and Israel implies that more people are dying of vaccines there. You really need to stop pulling these BS theories out of thin air and posting them on a nursing forum. These theories are an affront to nurses and nursing professionalism but you really don’t seem to see that.
Saying that your logical thinking is flawed isn’t a personal attack. When you demonstrate poor logic over and over again, it’s just a fact. Maybe you are super logical on other matters, I have no way of knowing that. But what you’ve written about the vaccines, how you’ve interpreted research and the theories you share, aren’t logical. If you continue to spread information that is not accurate, you will be called out on it.
So willyou join me in celebrating the Brazilian city that have decreased their Covid-19 deaths by 95% or the UK and Israel recording days with zero deaths?
I have no idea how you emotional health is but your logical thinking is deeply flawed.
The other line can only be Israel since it’s the only country that was ahead of the UK in regards to vaccination coverage. If you kept abreast with the developing research instead of reading revolver news, you would have known that. Some of the earliest studies on vaccine efficacy on a population level we’ve seen are from Israel.
There is no problem with my "logical thinking". I also read a variety of sources ranging from Revolver and Naturalnews.com on the right to Huffington Post and Democratic underground on the right to www.realclearscience in the middle. You question "our logic" (call us the Covid Vaccine cautious) we question the veracity of sources that consistently look the other way at adverse events and have even changed the very methodology of how they will count positive Covid cases (as the CDC announced they will start doing about a week ago when they revealed they will use a different standard which will effectively undercount Covid cases in the vaccinated) https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9566619/CDC-stopped-counting-breakthrough-Covid-infection-fully-vaccinated-people.html . This is reminiscent of a few months ago when mainstream sources such as facebook, Twiitter and Youtube took down all media and posts claiming that Covid may have had a non "natural" origin which has now become mainstream. So long as the mainstream plays "bait and switch" on methodology and what they allow to be discussed it should be treated with deep skepticism.
Are you seriously saying that only the US has freedom and rights? Are you really that ignorant of what happens in the world? Let me give you a quick clue - look up Magna Carta, European Convention of Human Rights, UK employment law - which makes US employment conditions look like slave labour, European Working Time Directive.
Do you get the idea? The US may have a Bill of Rights and Amendments but so what? What about the 13th Amendment that legalizes slavery?
US is ranked 44th in the world for press freedom - UK is 33rd (Norway is first). Try doing a Google search for freedoms in countries - the results will (should) worry you.
Sorry moderators, I know this is off topic but I felt this particular poster needed some education about the world he lives in following his comment to me.
Pleas feel free to remove it.
At the risk of being off topic it was not my intention to allege that your rights were "inferior" but rather that they were different and that the legal precedents that guide their protection and enforcement are also very different. This is the case even between say the UK and Ireland or other EU nations. Thus, for example in Canada even to read certain sections of the Bible in public could be legally designated as "hate speech" under prevailing law (often for anti LGBTQ references) in other jurisdictions in the United States this would be considered "protected" speech in the same context. Not only do I welcome your "Grumpy" assessments I treasure them. Your perspectives are unique and valued (at least by me) and the world would be a far dimmer place if they were not shared in my opinion.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
14 minutes ago, myoglobin said:
I would of course allege that most so called "mainstream sources" such as MSNBC, CNN and NPR are left of center with sourcing that is equally bias. When "one side" controls the "fact checking" business it gets the distinction of defining reality. My job here is not to serve the dominant mainstream but to speak for the masses who resist mandatory vaccination or face loss of our jobs, our ability to go to school and generally function in society.
So what? No one offered you MSNBC or CNN for covid vaccine data or evidence so your opinion on them is irrelevant. You did offer a poor source which clearly feeds your fears and anxieties. You seem to be stuck in this "us versus them" thinking when it comes to facts, evidence and accuracy...that's an emotional response. Surely as a mental health APRN you can recognize this.
So what? No one offered you MSNBC or CNN for covid vaccine data or evidence so your opinion on them is irrelevant. You did offer a poor source which clearly feeds your fears and anxieties. You seem to be stuck in this "us versus them" thinking when it comes to facts, evidence and accuracy...that's an emotional response. Surely as a mental health APRN you can recognize this.
Sources should not be "dismissed" because they are "right or left" especially when they quote "their" source material. In the case of the article I linked it discusses VAERS and the data that they write about in the article can be easily verified. You may disagree with their interpretation, but there is scarcely room to call in less than accurate since one only need reference the VAERS/CDC database. Thus, for example for those of you who maintain that "not a single" death of the thousands reported in VAERS after the vaccination is related to the vaccine my question would be by what "standard" would you be willing to attribute a death after the vaccine to the vaccine? Which test or finding would reach a level that you are willing to say "that" person definitively died from the vaccine? Again, with the virus people that I cared for in the ICU with advanced cancer (who also happened to have Covid) and perished were in fact counted as "Covid deaths". Why in your opinion was it "okay" to count these as "Covid deaths" and at the same time not count those who die say within a few weeks or months after the vaccines as usually or at least often "vaccine related"?
GrumpyRN, NP
1,344 Posts
Detailed Report
Questionable Reasoning: Poor Sourcing, Lack of Transparency, Conspiracy Theories
Bias Rating: RIGHT
Factual Reporting: MIXED
Country: Unknown
Media Type: Website
Traffic/Popularity: Medium Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: LOW CREDIBILITY
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/revolver-news/
Just so that you are aware of how untrustworthy your sources are.
I'm going with hhern and nursej22 on this. You took a zero death rate and turned it into a negative so yes, I also am concerned for your well-being. Take care.