Apparently per the EEOC's guidelines employers (not just healthcare related) can mandate vaccination of workers. The exception is a "sincerely held religious belief" or a covered disability. Just found out this morning that a chain of for profit LTC/SNF's are rolling out a Covid vaccine mandate for all direct care staff or face indefinite unpaid administrative leave. I am a heavy supporter of vaccination and of the new COVID vaccine and in fact am due to get one in early January. But I am doing so of my own volition. My facility encouraged all workers to sign up for a vaccine and provided information sessions and it's been really effective at getting people to sign up.
Even though I would disagree with someone's choice to not vaccinate, I don't believe they should be mandated at this point.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
4 hours ago, myoglobin said:
Again here is the article upon which "my" hypothesis rests https://noorchashm.medium.com/the-safest-way-to-get-your-covid-19-vaccine-screenb4vaccine-d8a9b0bb7cbd . In order to ascertain if there is validity to this perspective we would need to do a prospective cohort analysis such as I have suggested. When RN's who currently decline vaccination eventually get vaccinated (as many will inevitably choose or be forced to do so) it should be possible to determine is more of those who have high antibody titers or active infection display signs and symptoms of greater side effects than those who do not. Are you not finding that many off your clients and associates who get vaccinated display significant side effects? Of the hundred or so clients that I have spoken to who have been vaccinated at least 30% indicate having to miss at least a day from work for things like lethargy, and arm pain. Obviously, not scientific but if anything given that the average age of my client base is under 35 I would possibly expect less health issues than older clients.
OK
That is dated 1/28/21. His concern is vaccinating people with virus in their system. Fortunately, the doctor's concern seems unfounded as evidenced by the lack of cases after more than 100 million doses delivered to the general population.
Meanwhile, there is some anecdotal evidence that chronic symptoms may be improved after vaccination.
That is dated 1/28/21. His concern is vaccinating people with virus in their system. Fortunately, the doctor's concern seems unfounded as evidenced by the lack of cases after more than 100 million doses delivered to the general population.
Meanwhile, there is some anecdotal evidence that chronic symptoms may be improved after vaccination.
No I would argue his biggest concern is as follows:
My very specific concern stems from the fact that the SARS-CoV-2 virus is known to accumulate in the inner lining of blood vessels — the so-called endothelium. So if a person with a recent or active COVID-19 infection is vaccinated, the highly effective and antigen specific immune response incited by the vaccine will, very likely, attack the inner lining of the blood vessel and cause damage, leading to blood clot formation. This could result in major serious problems like strokes and heart attacks, at least in some people. I project that this risk will be highest in the elderly, the infirm and those with cardiovascular disease
Given that blood clots are one of the most concerning findings at least in the J&J vaccine and the Astra Zenica vaccine that this remains a hypothesis worthy of investigation.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
3 hours ago, myoglobin said:
No I would argue his biggest concern is as follows:
My very specific concern stems from the fact that the SARS-CoV-2 virus is known to accumulate in the inner lining of blood vessels — the so-called endothelium. So if a person with a recent or active COVID-19 infection is vaccinated, the highly effective and antigen specific immune response incited by the vaccine will, very likely, attack the inner lining of the blood vessel and cause damage, leading to blood clot formation. This could result in major serious problems like strokes and heart attacks, at least in some people. I project that this risk will be highest in the elderly, the infirm and those with cardiovascular disease
Given that blood clots are one of the most concerning findings at least in the J&J vaccine and the Astra Zenica vaccine that this remains a hypothesis worthy of investigation.
Of course it's worthy of investigating the clots. It's also worth noting that the clots are only associated with the vaccines using a more "traditional" technology. There is no similar occurrence in the mRNA vaccines.
Of course it's worthy of investigating the clots. It's also worth noting that the clots are only associated with the vaccines using a more "traditional" technology. There is no similar occurrence in the mRNA vaccines.
Actually this study done by Oxford https://osf.io/a9jdq/ shows that the risk of clots by Pfizer and Moderna are probably on par with the Johnson and Johnson shot. There is a small, but still significant risk of clots from the vaccines.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
1 hour ago, myoglobin said:
Actually this study done by Oxford https://osf.io/a9jdq/ shows that the risk of clots by Pfizer and Moderna are probably on par with the Johnson and Johnson shot. There is a small, but still significant risk of clots from the vaccines.
You might have noticed that the "risk of clots" is not a reason to avoid vaccination according to the actual scientists and the conclusion of your citation.
Actually this study done by Oxford https://osf.io/a9jdq/ shows that the risk of clots by Pfizer and Moderna are probably on par with the Johnson and Johnson shot. There is a small, but still significant risk of clots from the vaccines.
The study you linked does not say that the risk of clots from mRNA vaccines are ”probably on par” with the risk associated with the viral vector vaccine you named.
It specifically said: (Discussion)
”Importantly, the present study cannot be used to draw conclusions on the relative risk of developing a CVT or PVT after receiving an mRNA vaccine compared to the baseline incidence or compared to other vaccines.”
From the study: ”The incidence of CVT and PVT after COVID-19 is substantially greater than in the matched control cohorts”. (My bold). (They had two control cohorts in the study. One diagnosed with influenza and one that had received an mRNA vaccine).
Also from your link: ”The observed incidence of of CVT in the matched cohort of people who received an mRNA vaccine is compatible with even the lowest estimate of the baseline rate in the USA of 0.53 per million in any 2-week period”
The conclusion of the study:
”The incidence of CVT and PVT is significantly increased after COVID-19. The data highlight the risk of serious thrombotic events in COVID-19 and can help contextualize the risks and benefits of vaccination in this regard”.
I hope I’ve typed everything correctly but please double-check. I’m not the best secretary ?
Myoglobin. Don’t get vaccinated if you don’t want to. But STOP trying to scare others from getting a vaccine that will save lives.
You might have noticed that the "risk of clots" is not a reason to avoid vaccination according to the actual scientists and the conclusion of your citation.
And strokes, don't forget about the strokes, and death from same. I watched a Youtube video from Dr Bhakdi in Europe, and he said this new MRNA gene therapy vaccine gets into the blood stream and affects the blood vessels in many areas throughout the body, including the brain and sets off an immune reaction that can lead to clots which can devolve into strokes and DIC. He stated the risk is higher with the second dose as the body has already been sensitized by the first dose. This new technology affects the blood vessels and increase risk of stroke which regular (non-MRNA) vaccines don't do. Younger women seem to be at highest risk for these adverse reactions. Also don't forget the FL Dr that developed thrombocytopenia just a couple days after the vaccine he died of a brain bleed. There was an article that around 37 other people had to be hospitalized for the same thing from the vaccine. Women are having irregular periods and swollen lymph nodes that look similar to breast cancer. Not to mention women left with paralysis from the neck down they say is not GB or stroke. Also couple more women with chorea type movement disorders after the vaccine that their Dr's had no explanation for so claimed it was just a "conversion" disorder from stress. Talk about adding insult to injury!
Dr Bhakdi discusses his take on the blood clots, strokes, death and chorea type problems on Youtube in the video
Perspectives on the Pandemic | "Blood Clots and Beyond" | Episode 15
I'm glad to be retired and not forced to take the vaccine. I'm glad to be free from the whole forced vaccination movement in healthcare. By the way, you can't sue the vaccine manufacturers if you are injured. You have to appeal to the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. Also you have less rights with this experimental vaccine than the flu vaccine if you are seriously injured!
And strokes, don't forget about the strokes, and death from same. I watched a Youtube video from a Dr Bhakdi in Europe and he said this new MRNA gene therapy vaccine gets into the blood stream and affects the blood vessels in many areas throughout the body, including the brain and sets off an immune reaction that can lead to clots which can devolve into strokes and DIC. He stated the risk is higher with the second dose as the body has already been sensitized by the first dose. This new technology affects the blood vessels and increase risk of stroke which regular (non-MRNA) vaccines don't do. Younger women seem to be at highest risk for these adverse reactions. Also don't forget the FL Dr that developed thrombocytopenia just a couple days after the vaccine he died of a brain bleed. There was an article that around 37 other people had to be hospitalized for the same thing from the vaccine. Women are having irregular periods and swollen lymph nodes that look similar to breast cancer. Not to mention women left with paralysis from the neck down they say is not GB or stroke. Also couple more women with chorea type movement disorders after the vaccine that their Dr's had no explanation for so claimed it was just a "conversion" disorder from stress. Talk about adding insult to injury!
Dr Bhakdi discusses his take on the blood clot, strokes, death and chorea type problems on Youtube in the video
Perspectives on the Pandemic | "Blood Clots and Beyond" | Episode 15
I'm glad to be retired and not forced to take the vaccine. I'm glad to be free from the whole forced vaccination movement in healthcare. By the way, you can't sue the vaccine manufacturers if you are injured. You have to appeal to the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. Also you have less rights with this experimental vaccine than the flu vaccine if you are seriously injured!
Brandy, your post is full of disinformation. There’s a reason why you can’t provide a reputable and credible source for those claims. In my opinion disinformation does not belong on a nursing site. It’s scaremongering and you’ve provided no proof.
I don’t know of you’re aware, but the doctor you referenced was awarded the ”Golden Blockhead” award (Das Goldene Brett vorm Kopf) in 2020. You can probably guess from the name that the award isn’t really cause for celebration.
I’m mid-forties and healthy, and was super happy to get vaccinated back in January. Despite statistically being relatively low risk, the risk of a Covid-19 infection is still far greater for me than that of a vaccine. It was the correct choice for me. Both on a personal and on a societal level.
I’ll say the same thing to you as I told Myoglobin. Don’t take a vaccine of you don’t want to. But don’t post disinformation.
Brandy, your post is full of disinformation. There’s a reason why you can’t provide a reputable and credible source for those claims.
I don’t know of you’re aware, but the doctor you referenced was awarded the ”Golden Blockhead” award (Das Goldene Brett vorm Kopf) in 2020. You can probably guess from the name that the award isn’t really cause for celebration.
Even if this is true, one can listen to his explanation of the clots. It makes sense to me and that younger people, especially women are at higher rates of adverse complications. You can check news articles and verify deaths, strokes, clots, paralysis and chorea type issues in America alone.
I wouldn't write him off without listening first, but even if you disregard him as a quack, which I don't, you can't deny the serious injuries and deaths young people, especially women have had after the vaccine.
I've read he has been criticized for downplaying the seriousness of covid. That may be true, but I was glad to learn about immunology and how the new MRNA vaccine is causing a chain reaction in the blood vessels that leads to serious blood clots and strokes in some people.
Do you believe he is wrong about how the MRNA covid vaccine is targeting blood vessels and causing strokes? If so what mechanism do you think is leading to strokes, paralysis, chorea movement disorders, DIC, thrombocytopenia and deaths? Do you think his explanation is wrong or rather do you feel it is a matter of the benefits outweighing the risks?
At the very least, people should have true informed consent before they choose to be vaccinated. I found it interesting that until the J&J blood clot issue, there was a total news black out on serious side effects and deaths from the Moderna & Pfizer vaccine that is being given in our country. News in Europe was very open about issues of all the vaccines and some countries did take actions to protect their citizens by halting the Astra-Zeneca vaccine.
People should also be aware if they are seriously injured they can't sue the vaccine manufacturers, but must file a claim with the National Vaccine Compensation Board. You can look that up if you don't believe me.
toomuchbaloney
16,038 Posts
OK
That is dated 1/28/21. His concern is vaccinating people with virus in their system. Fortunately, the doctor's concern seems unfounded as evidenced by the lack of cases after more than 100 million doses delivered to the general population.
Meanwhile, there is some anecdotal evidence that chronic symptoms may be improved after vaccination.
Mysterious Ailment, Mysterious Relief: Vaccines Help Some COVID Long-Haulers