Yelled at a patient

Nurses General Nursing

Published

So I need some advice on damage control here. I've been a nurse for 2 years all of which have been on a telemetry/cardiac step down unit in a non-profit hospital in a poor metropolitan area. It's not huge hospital (500 beds), but it is big enough for CABGs/Caths/Cardio-Pulm stuff. My floor has about 16 to 20 nurses on the schedule for both nights and days and a 5 to 1 ratio on both nights and days. I've worked both shifts for a year minimum and can tell you that nights are a piece of cake compaired to days. Recently, like in the last 3 weeks, we lost our awesome manager, the best floor supervisor ever, a great night charge, and like 4 other decent-great nurses. Now there are only like 3 of us on day shift that have worked here more than a year....actually there are only 3 of us who have been nurses for more than a year and only 1 who has been a nurse for more than 5. I guess what I'm saying is that the circumstances are poopy and the reason we lost so many to begin with was because the circustances have been poopy since I've started there.

Anyhow I get a patient from the ER that comes in with chest pain. She's aggrivated on arrival because "no one has told me why I have to be admitted. I've had chest pain before, if the tests are negative they should let me go!" Well I end up going and getting her chart and pulling my computer in the room to do a little PR so that maybe she'll be satisfied and I can take care of my actually sick patients. I go over her labs and what they mean, the EKG, the doctors orders and why he probably wrote them, AND I told her about the fact that I didn't know when the doctor would be in but he would be there sometime before I left. She seemed satisfied and happy so I left and didn't go to her room for a while. I finally went to check on her and she was in a frenzy about her insurance and worried that if we didn't get precertification that she'd have to pay for her admission. Well I'm not all that great with insurance and I can understand her worry so I take the time (45 + minutes) to call registration and then the preceritfication department to make sure that they have the right insurance card and that they actually called and got approval. I went back to tell the pt and she was on the phone. I started to talk and she told me, "Don't be rude I'll talk to you when I'm off the phone." I bit my tounge and waited and then told her what I'd done. She did not seem completely satisfied because whe wanted the precertification department to call her and verify what they had done to her. At that point I was starting to get tired of her so I just told her again it was taken care of and I'd be back. About 1600 I notice that the MD hasn't made it by. I haven't been to her room but since I noticed I decide to call the doctors office to make sure they know about the consult because eventhough the ER and my secretary both say the consult has be done I just felt the need to make sure. Well low and behold the patient had called the MD's office 6 times since 10am and had been told repeatedly that the doctor was at another hospital but he knew she was waiting to be seen and that he would not finish his evening until he saw her. So I went to tell the patient that I'd also called and checked up on the situation and low and behold the butt pimple was on the phone with her MD's office AGAIN telling them that no one had explained to her why she was here, what was going on, or doing ANYTHING to care for her. Something in me just snapped. I'd spent so much time trying to make sure she had what she needed and for her to go and say something like that just sent me through the roof. Thus I ended up yelling at her and telling her point blank that she was a waste of my time and that I would no longer be caring for her. I then marched up to my charge nurse and handed her the chart and told her that I was done with her and I refused to take care of her anymore. My charge RN precedes to go into the patient's room to reconsile the issue by joking with the patient about how I need to go get a psych evaluation.:sstrs:

I feel bad. I feel bad about the fact that I don't feel bad that I yelled at a patient...and I'm ****** at my charge RN.:devil: While I know that she needed to reconsile the issue I don't feel that it was appropriate to do it by makeing a joke of my mental health. Furthermore I feel even more aggrivated because I had put in my notice for June 15th but then agreed (after lots of begging from this particular charge RN and the director of my floor) to stay, at least part time, until October to help them out because they are so short.:madface:

I don't even want to step foot into the place tomorrow. :crying2:

Your charge nurse seemed like she was trying to diffuse the situation. Mentioning that you needed a psych eval, certainly wasn't the most appropriate thing for her to say. However, she might very well have prevented the patient from filing a complaint against you.

I know you said you gave your notice, so maybe being written up or terminated wouldn't be the biggest deal at this point. But throughout your career, you are going to have patients like this. And you can't let them push you over the edge.

I know it isn't easy when you have someone shouting at you, and being unappreciative for what you are trying to do for them. I have been there. And I've even asked my charge nurse/another nurse for assistance in dealing with a difficult patient's care, a time or two. But never in a million years, do I feel it's ever justified to yell at a patient and simply be done with them. :twocents:

Specializes in School Nursing.

sounds like you are stressed to the max. i would not have yelled at the patient. i would not have gotten involved in the whole insurance thing. and i would not have handed her off to someone just because i was pizzed. you need a break. hope you get one. i am sure it is well deserved.

praiser :redbeathe

Specializes in LTC Rehab Med/Surg.

Kudos to you for spending the time with her you did. I would have given up long before you did, but then I never would have reached the level of frustration you did either. I've been a nurse awhile and so I tend to give most of my time to the pts who I can actually help.

I wish at least once a shift I could say something to a pt that would get me fired. I never have, but I have some years left in me.

Your manager threw you to the wolves. That stinks. Now you know she won't stand up for you in any situation.

I wish wish wish, I would have had a front row seat to the explosion. Popcorn and soda would have been a plus. You could have charged admission and made a fortune.

Specializes in ER, Trauma.

We're the patient advocate. Our first duty after self preservation is to treat the patients physical illness, then the emotional problem. I think Geodon should be a standing PRN order for all patients. In all the calls the patient made, she was calling for help, not transportation.

THEN, give her a suitcase, taxi phone number, an AMA form, a list of local doctors, hospitals and funeral parlors, point out the closest door and a sincere "Good Luck."

A permission for autopsy would be icing on the cake.

We're the patient advocate. Our first duty after self preservation is to treat the patients physical illness, then the emotional problem. I think Geodon should be a standing PRN order for all patients. In all the calls the patient made, she was calling for help, not transportation.

THEN, give her a suitcase, taxi phone number, an AMA form, a list of local doctors, hospitals and funeral parlors, point out the closest door and a sincere "Good Luck."

A permission for autopsy would be icing on the cake.

LOL

good one! :lol2:

Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.

Did the OP post because she wasn't sure if it was professional or not to yell at a patient? Like she was expecting a mix of opinions on the issue? That's not the impression I got, but I'm often wrong about these things, so maybe she'll find those posts informing her that yelling at a patient is unprofessional to be very helpful going forward. Sometimes I think people deliberately answer a question that wasn't asked for the sole purpose of jumping on their high horse.

QUOTE=Ginger's Mom;4312036]Prior to nursing school I worked in retail, dealing with irate customers is very different than working with sick people, do other nurses find that there is a difference working retail and with sick patients?

I suggest you take an inservice which most hospitals given, also read the peer reviewed articles by Martha Griffin, you may find some answers on how to deal with this situation again.

This would be good for everybody, because we know that taking care of sick people is different than working in retail, even though sick people can have remarkably loud booming voices and lots of energy to make phone calls and lists of the transgressions of the nursing personnel. It's up to us to deal with them, and though it's irritating, we need to stay calm even if we're stressed by short-staffing and expect the patient to be appreciative of our efforts as we would in most of our non-work interactions with people.

Lately, I've noticed fewer and fewer decent inservices being offered. I would love to spend a few hours attending a workshop on how to constructively deal with PITA patients. This is probably a situation where the dreaded "scripts" might actually be helpful!!;)

your supervisor was wrong, not only for being unsupportive, but was validating how wrong you were.

even if you were wrong, a supe should never let the pt know that- it should remain betw you and your employers.

as for going off on your pt, yeah, you knew it was wrong, and that's not my concern.

i am concerned however, that you don't care that you were wrong.

to me, that is one sign of burn-out...and you need to take care of yourself, before you start delivering generally sloppy care.

fwiw, i've gone off on pts too...but i call it limit-setting.:D

and have made sure that i say what i mean and mean what i say...

keeping it firm, assertive, professional...with a slightly raised voice.

what did your pt say after you had your mini-meltdown?

leslie

Specializes in multispecialty ICU, SICU including CV.

This reminds me of when on Sober House, Dr. Drew Pinksky called the sober house manager Jen Jimenez into his office for getting into a shouting match with a patient. Granted, she is not a licensed professional, simply a peer that runs the sober house and provides support. However, Dr. Drew said to her, "With us (meaning MDs, nurses, psych techs), that would be grounds for termination." You never, never never should get so emotionally involved with a patient that you blow up. It's not worth your job or your license, your peace of mind, etc. etc.

I feel that you went way above what you should have done in the situation, you knew it, and were mad that this lady didn't appreciate it, so you went off. Honey, you aren't out to save the world. Let cranky old b@#%^ches do what they are going to do and stay out of it. Insurance reimbursement isn't the nurses role. Finding out where the doc was at was appropriate but it should have been left at that if you found out that yes, indeed he did get the consult and would be there when he could get there, unless it was an emergency. Explaining all this lady's initial workup data to her was over the top. For crying out loud, she hadn't even seen the doc yet. SHE/HE determines the plan of care, not you. You should have just made her wait for her eval from the MD. "Sorry, the doctor isn't going to be able to see you until around 6 pm when he comes from another hospital" would have sufficed. You should have just admitted her and let her stew by herself in the room.

Never let toxic people get to you. It is not worth your sanity or your time. If you continue to repeat this kind of behavior in your career, you will pay -- it's just a matter of when. Wise up and figure out what you can do to cool yourself down and be more effective in your role, and leave the rest behind.

Specializes in Telemetry.

Thanks for all the replys. Just to clarify a few things...no I don't think it is appropriate to yell at patients. I've worked in the medical field 6 years. 4 at Barnes Jewish Hospital in the ER, but I was a nurse tech. I still got yelled at by patients a lot there...8-12 waiting times in a waiting room with 100+ people and 65 beds with ambulances on the way didn't help patient attitudes one bit. I've been to clases on how to deal with irrate 'customers' but they are mostly pointless as I can't do the customary "do whatever it takes to make it right" that is preached in such classes.

A formal complaint was filed by this particular patient today and I really don't care. I believe with my whole heart that we are the patient's advocate, which is why I spent the time I did dealing with her questions, explaining to the best of my ability how long she was going to be here, and trying to settle her mind about her insurance concerns (neither of my parents have insurance and I've heard plenty of patient stories about how insurace companies screw them over even though it was the hospital's fault for filing incorrectly). If she had been a crazy person or someone with a mental issue I might have been less willing to work this hard or not have gotten as upset, but she was not crazy...and yes I do know that for sure...and she did not have a mental issue...and yes I do know that for sure.

She was ungreatful, impatient, rude, and time consuming. I'm not saying that medcine should be the way it was in my grandfather's time where you did what the doctor/nurse said with out question. I don't think nurses should work without questioning other nurses care and doctors. But if we, as a profession, do not draw the line somewhere then we are forever going to be stepped on. Nurses get stepped on everywhere, all the time. We are the choice scapegoate and I can tell you without a doubt or hesitation that you can be a nurse Nightengale, but if you have ****** off the wrong person you will be forced out eventually. Today healthcare is more about politics and customer satisfaction than it is about actually taking care of the patient. I'm not saying we shouldn't keep the patient informed on their level or let them make their own decisions, but it is down right ridculous what we are expected to put up with....from both patients and our employers.

I entered a profession where I am hardly respected or appriciated by either my patient, the doctors, or my superiors. I also NEVER get the satisfaction of going home on time nor do I get any satisfaction of going home feeling like I did a good job or accomplished anything.

At first I thought this was because I was a new nurse, then I thought it was because I wasn't organized enough, and then I thought I wasn't fast enough, but I have come to discover over the last two years that it is not me. I'm willing to adapt change, I help my coworkers, I put my self last, I am smart and quick, and I do a good job. Guess what? I AM NOT THE PROBLEM!

When I was a newer nurse, around 6 months into it, I went up to the nurses station and started crying because I was so far behind. My charge nurse that day said, "Why did you choose this?" and I said, crying, "Because I like people and I wanted to help." My charge nurse said, sarcastically, "Well did you think it was going to be easy?!" And I said, "No, but I thought that I'd at least be able to do it." Meaning that I thought it would be a job that I could complete my tasks more or less on time, document everything on everyone, and still be able to eat a 30 minute lunch and pee 3 times in a 12 hour shift the MAJORITY of the time. Yes, like I said I worked in the ER prior to this job, I know that there are going to be days that don't work out that way, but even in the crazy crowded ER that I worked in I was able to pee and have a lunch break more often that I do now!

Anyway, I'm going to try a few different kinds of nursing and if they all to out to be stupid crazy like this then nursing is so know where near the caliber of profession that I thought it was. Because frankly these conditions are unsafe, emotionally and physically damaging, and would NOT be tolerated in other fields.

If I ever anyone gets to lobby for something in Washington DC, it should be for nurses because this job is stupid.

Specializes in Telemetry.

So no one get's their panties in a wad, the following statement I made, "If she had been a crazy person or someone with a mental issue I might have been less willing to work this hard..." Please put that in context before someone decides to start accusing me of wronging patient's with mental illnesses. I only mean that I could have taken the pt's personality disorder or condition in to context along with the requests.

P.S. I just got off work at 10pm and had been their since 7am, so typos and other such stuff should be forgiven please.:)

Specializes in ER.

I think you did a superb job, first off.

The patient was demanding and difficult and frustrating. You let her do it to you though. If you see the pattern emerging where there are numerous continuous demands you need to protect yourself next time. She wants to know about the doc's schedule, she can phone. she wants to know about her dietary preferences and whether the kitchen can provide- give her the number. Insurance and preauthorizations- here's the phone, have at it. Homecare thoughts and concerns- the social worker will visit tomorrow, here's a pen and paper so you can make a list of your concerns. I'm not saying not to do any of those things for the next person, but she was taking up your time over issues you have no control over. You have other priorities and patients, setting boundaries so you can meet your responsibilities is your job. On a more self preserving note, if you place yourself as the go-between for all those departments if anything is miscommunicated, or doesn't shake out the way she plans, it becomes your fault. Not the fault of the insurance broker, or the secretary in accounts- YOU. The patient you describe could keep a small company hopping, so spread the wealth, and let other departments take some of the weight. You can listen to her concerns, and steer her in the right direction, but if you can't make decisions for the department she needs let her make the calls herself. Added bonus- if you keep her on the phone instead of the callbell the next shift will thank you.

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