2 years med/surg means nothing in job hunt

mmc51264, BSN, MSN, RN · Nov 15, 2019

i would network within the hospital. A lot of jobs are word of mouth and then you go to the manager, then apply.

JKL33 · Nov 15, 2019

Quote
We can't even contact unit managers anymore to introduce ourselves or express interest/ make connections.

Can you clarify? Do you mean that the official process is through the third party, or do you mean that it is internally heavily frowned upon to contact other unit managers such that a manger wouldn't consider you if you made contact with them outside of the third party?

If the latter thing is true...sounds like it's time to significantly widen your search.

stren003, BSN, RN · Nov 15, 2019

22 minutes ago, JKL33 said:
Can you clarify? Do you mean that the official process is through the third party, or do you mean that it is internally heavily frowned upon to contact other unit managers such that a manger wouldn't consider you if you made contact with them outside of the third party?
If the latter thing is true...sounds like it's time to significantly widen your search.

It's both. The official application, selection for interviews and hiring process goes through the third party recruiters that my organization works with. Additionally, it is heavily frowned upon to try and "network" or reach out to mangers to express interest. I've known other nurses that have tried and managers talk to managers and all of a sudden, everyone knows that someone is trying to leave our unit. Don't get me wrong, my unit is actually pretty good, it's just very busy, very high acuity patients and I am burnt out from traditional bedside nursing.

This summer, I applied for a novice NICU position, actually got an interview with the manager and was told in the interview that they were rescinding the job posting because they decided they wanted at least a year of NICU experience. I expressed my desire to get my foot in the door to OB in any nursing capacity (L&D, post-partum) and asked if she would recommend me to the manger of those areas. She acted put out that I would ask and told me I could reach out through email to the other manager, but that she didn't feel that was necessarily appropriate because I had not been chosen to officially interview with that manager. I did email the manager of L & D and never even got a response.

It's just frustrating because I have been with this organization for so long and used networking many years ago to move to increasingly technical jobs as my career grew. I assumed (I know, bad me....) that once I did my 1-2 years of med/surg, that the "sky would be the limit" and I could move into a specialty fairly easily being an internal employee. Now, it seems managers are very "closed door", probably due to the overwhelmingly crazy things that are piled on them constantly.

I have searched through the other 3 major hospital systems in my area, and honestly, many of those specialty jobs want experience as well. I am not a job hopper. I really wanted to find a specialty and hopefully be there until I retire. I guess I am just bummed that things aren't turning out like I had hoped. I'm just not sure how bedside nurses are supposed to "gain experience" when it seems no one is wanting to train them into specialties!

myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN · Nov 15, 2019

The "sad" but often reality is that it is often harder to advance (or change units) from within an organization than without. Why? I'm not sure possible reasons include that when an organization has someone who is good (or even functional) in a certain position it is in their best interest to keep them in that position (at least from a short sighted organizational perspective). Also, there has been something of a trend with "internship" programs that recruit and hire right out of nursing school (indeed I remember being insulted when I was in my 30's and a 4.0 student having just finished my nursing prerequisites with my 99th percentile TEAS score and being told that 30 of 60 starting BSN spots were being reserved for promising "high-school" students who had simply qualified by being young and having a "B" average in high school). So what is the answer?

One might involve being willing to move possibly even out of state. I was told that as a new grad NP (in psych) that I would never make more than about 120K to start in Florida (my own organization locally doesn't even hire NP's in psych). My own wife experienced the same thing at our hospital after she received her NP. She applied for a "charge nurse" RN position and was passed over despite having been relief charge for many years and having been on the unit for six years (and of course having just received her Masters degree). Sure she was hurt, so she took an at home tele-psych position (which she still has) paying $85.00 per hour. Personally, by applying to over 500 jobs on Indeed using their "easy apply" I have already had multiple offers over 150K (granted in different states). Heck, with your current experience you could be a travel nurse in California and earn well over 100K (and at least enjoy 4 to 1 ratios on medical surgical units in California that are mandated by law). Also, I would wager a large sum that there are multiple ICU's (or other units) in states like Washington, Maryland, Conn, Maine and New Hampshire (no state income tax there by the way) that would love to hire you and pay your moving expenses to get you there. These companies that don't provide upward mobility or reward loyalty are ultimately hurting themselves, but try not to let them hurt you. In the long run the job you don't get may lead to one that is far better.

stren003, BSN, RN · Nov 15, 2019

7 hours ago, myoglobin said:
The "sad" but often reality is that it is often harder to advance (or change units) from within an organization than without. Why? I'm not sure possible reasons include that when an organization has someone who is good (or even functional) in a certain position it is in their best interest to keep them in that position (at least from a short sighted organizational perspective). Also, there has been something of a trend with "internship" programs that recruit and hire right out of nursing school (indeed I remember being insulted when I was in my 30's and a 4.0 student having just finished my nursing prerequisites with my 99th percentile TEAS score and being told that 30 of 60 starting BSN spots were being reserved for promising "high-school" students who had simply qualified by being young and having a "B" average in high school). So what is the answer?
One might involve being willing to move possibly even out of state. I was told that as a new grad NP (in psych) that I would never make more than about 120K to start in Florida (my own organization locally doesn't even hire NP's in psych). My own wife experienced the same thing at our hospital after she received her NP. She applied for a "charge nurse" RN position and was passed over despite having been relief charge for many years and having been on the unit for six years (and of course having just received her Masters degree). Sure she was hurt, so she took an at home tele-psych position (which she still has) paying $85.00 per hour. Personally, by applying to over 500 jobs on Indeed using their "easy apply" I have already had multiple offers over 150K (granted in different states). Heck, with your current experience you could be a travel nurse in California and earn well over 100K (and at least enjoy 4 to 1 ratios on medical surgical units in California that are mandated by law). Also, I would wager a large sum that there are multiple ICU's (or other units) in states like Washington, Maryland, Conn, Maine and New Hampshire (no state income tax there by the way) that would love to hire you and pay your moving expenses to get you there. These companies that don't provide upward mobility or reward loyalty are ultimately hurting themselves, but try not to let them hurt you. In the long run the job you don't get may lead to one that is far better.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience! Maybe in a few years, travel nursing could be an option. Trying to finish getting kids through school and other family commitments, so moving isn't an option for now. I do browse Indeed, but have been afraid to post a profile, because I don't really know how it works. I imagine you get flooded with a mass of job offers that don't meet criteria. If you have any suggestions for how to use Indeed successfully, please let me know!

ruby_jane, BSN, RN · Nov 15, 2019

13 hours ago, stren003 said:
Additionally, it is heavily frowned upon to try and "network" or reach out to mangers to express interest. I've known other nurses that have tried and managers talk to managers and all of a sudden, everyone knows that someone is trying to leave our unit. Don't get me wrong, my unit is actually pretty good, it's just very busy, very high acuity patients and I am burnt out from traditional bedside nursing.
It's just frustrating because I have been with this organization for so long and used networking many years ago to move to increasingly technical jobs as my career grew. I assumed (I know, bad me....) that once I did my 1-2 years of med/surg, that the "sky would be the limit" and I could move into a specialty fairly easily being an internal employee. Now, it seems managers are very "closed door", probably due to the overwhelmingly crazy things that are piled on them constantly.
I have searched through the other 3 major hospital systems in my area, and honestly, many of those specialty jobs want experience as well.

Apparently there is not a nursing shortage where you are. That's fine - there isn't a nursing shortage here in the NTX , just a shortage of nurse willing to work bedside and a shortage of hospitals willing to put in the time to train a nurse right. And until the latter changes, the former will not change.

I would put my resume on Linked In or Monster or whichever entity gets the most play in your area. I would also consult with a headhunter or agency to see what they can do for you. Right now you are a time management ninja and you should be able to translate that into most specialties.

Do you have a public hospital where the answer might be different in terms of cracking into women's health?

Finally....don't rule out ambulatory nursing. I don't get the OT/shift diff but I'm done by 5 PM, my back and legs don't hurt, I actually get to take lunch, and I rarely take work home with me! Nor does it ever weigh on me that I've forgotten to chart something!

Party_of_five, BSN · Nov 16, 2019

Definitely reach out to the nurse managers on the units you are interested in. Use your hospitals website to figure out their names and then contact them through your work email and express interest in transferring to their unit. I guarantee you you will get an interview. Good luck!

Ella26, BSN, RN · Nov 16, 2019

Maybe try leaving your organization since your longevity isn’t as valuable as you once thought...And obtaining a job in the specialty you want in another hospital. Stay there a few years and go back to your old hospital (if you really like the company) to apply to the specialty you want?...

PeakRN · Nov 16, 2019

In many systems there are units, med/surg floors in particular, that are perpetually understaffed or difficult to keep nurses in.

Often managers of said units will pull favors when they find out someone is trying to go to another unit to keep them from getting hired there.

Most systems (for profit or not) really look at money closely. If they hire you onto a specialty area without experience (unfortunately prior med/surg time does little to prepare you for areas like L&D, NICU, OR, ED, Peds, et cetera) they are essentially hiring a new grad. This is part of the reason some systems lump their new grads and new to specialty programs together. Then they also have to hire and train someone to your floor as well.

I don't like that you are discouraged from talking to managers from other units. This seems pretty toxic and I'd be looking for a way out. Our nurses can easily email any of our unit directors or managers, and set up a face to face meeting with them.

I think you have to weigh how much you want to stay in your system, and how much you want to change specialties. It seems to me that your chance of getting into the units you want is probably higher at an outside hospital, but I don't know if your tenure in your system gives you benefits that aren't worth leaving (401K match, PTO rate, et cetera).

Ordinarily I would suggest trying to reach out to managers to shadow or cross train, but that doesn't seem to be an option in this case.

stren003, BSN, RN · Nov 16, 2019

Thank you all so much for your thoughts and insight! I did go ahead and put out some applications at other hospital systems in my area. I am not stuck on only going to OB. I also applied for some outpatient oncology positions, since that is what my med/surg unit specializes in. It's just very discouraging to think I would spend my career in my organization, but find that it may not be the case. One thing that I think is sad, is during the third party, online application process, you have to answer the question "do you have at least one year experience in _______" (OB, NICU, speciality, ect). As soon as you answer "no", your application will say "not selected". I feel like without the option to reach out to other unit managers, many good nurses who want to move to a specialty, are automatically rejected by the system.

As stated above, I did email the OB manager this summer, expressing interest and asking to meet, or for advice, and never got a response. I know it was seen because I used our internal email system with read receipt. I guess, I will keep my fingers crossed that someone, somewhere gives me an interview in a specialty area. I know I interview very well, as I have always been offered every position I have interviewed for in the past, I just need that chance to shine and show how valuable of an asset I am to an organization!

MamaBeaRN · Nov 17, 2019

I'm almost in the same boat as you. I am planning to stay PT where I am and try to get a per diem position at another hospital that will take me with my current experience. Hopefully in one year time, I will be able to get a position in that specialty at my current hospital.