Would you join a union

bluesky, BSN, RN · Feb 3, 2004

Originally posted by Speculating
My Father was a union rep for over 21 years, and I followed in his footsteps as a rep for the few years I remained at the company. We were AFL-CIO. So without hesitation you can tell I'm a union man. The huge problem we have with collective bargaining in nursing is in fact that we can't legally strike, and that makes a nursing union a hysterical joke. We have little to no power without strike capabilities. As far as sick outs go, they are basically very useless and ineffective in this profession. All we end up doing with sick outs is giving our good friends and fellow coworkers "ungod" like pt. load assignments. We need to team up with a union that can do the striking for us. At one point I heard someone was talking with the Teamsters. If we could team up nursing and the Teamsters, we would be virtually unstoppable. With a strike from the Teamsters and a sick out by the nurses we would bring the nation to its knees in a single day! And, we wouldn't have any difficulty getting our demands meet. Oh yah my name is Jon Smith ;-)

Don't get me wrong in theory I want to spend my career in a union it's just that all the big teaching hospitals in my area (where I think I'll learn the most for my first year or two) are non-union. The two union hospitals would put me in sleepy non-trauma ER's where I just won't learn anything. As soon as I get my wings I'm going union, though.

I do occasionally have reservations about unions that donot specialize in nursing (SEIU or AFL-CIO). They often just send reps with no nursing experience to speak to nurses and it just doesn't go over well. Too bad there are absolutely no ANA unions in my area.

purplemania, BSN, RN · Feb 3, 2004

well, it could be that your sampling does not include very many people with opposite views. The unionized hospitals in CA have had all kinds of trouble. I personally do not want someone else makng my decisions for me, union or otherwise. I work in a not-for-profit hospital that has no stockholders. Profits are returned to the facility. The people who keep threatening unionization are the ones who will not participate in committees or volunteer for community or hospital wide events (even the fun stuff). All they do is complain without offering any solutions.

Alnamvet · Feb 3, 2004

IN A HEART BEAT!!! Jackson Memorial Hospital/Univ of Miami has a union where even the Doctors are members....works well, and the salaries are much higher than all the rest of metropolitan Dade county, Broward, Palm Beach, et al;)

mew1961 · Feb 3, 2004

i work for the federal government and recently, we voted to unionize. i cannot tell you the difference having the union has made to our working environment. Nurses are empowered to make a difference. Management is no longer able to make decisions affecting our working environment without agreement from nurses. The union also has tons of benefits that come along with membership! i strongly encourage you to go speak with your union representative. The union has made a huge difference! no longer are we walked all over and taken advantage of.:)

-jt · Feb 4, 2004

Depends on which union it was. That makes a big difference.

If it was a strong RN-only union like the New York State Nurses Assoc, I would. And did. And have had similar experience as Mew1961 and Angus. I have not had the poor experiences with my state nurses assoc union (which is part of the national RN labor union, the United American Nurses,AFL-CIO) as some of the posters here who were in the wrong union.

Unionizing with our state nurses assoc was the best thing we ever did for ourselves. After experiencing 19 years as a member of an RN union, I will never again work as a non-union staff RN. I wont apply for a staff RN job that is non-union.

gwenith, BSN, RN · Feb 4, 2004

I think it is a case of "one bad apple" but when I read that some of you are working without workers compensation cover - with the threat of being fired for being injured at work hanging over your heads - mandatory overtime - STREWTH!!!

I have to tell you that when I talk to my colleagues about the fact that you have mandatory overtime they all agree on one thing. If it was even suggested here there would be a general strike (all unions all over the country) before the echoes died down.

YES!!!! I believe in Unions - historically it is the only way to ensure an adquate balance of power between managment and worker. Unions can be a good political force. - They have also done some strong lobbying for a better media coverage and profile for nurses here. It is not all about wages - or it should not be. When I was being bullied at work they helped me by keeping the records of events for me. A simple thing but invaluable if it ever came to dispute.

wjf00 · Feb 4, 2004

Originally posted by purplemania
The unionized hospitals in CA have had all kinds of trouble.

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How is it that someone from Texas knows so much about California unions. I AM from California and I AM in a union. If you mean that my getting $41+/hr. less than 2 years out of nursing school, and that my avg pt load is 1:1 or 2:1 is "all kinds of trouble". Then fine, I will take that kind of trouble.

Owney · Feb 4, 2004

wfjOO,

I enjoyed your response to the Texan telling you all about California Unions.

I have to agree with je on this one. The question has to be, "what Kind of union?"

I worked in union and non-union hospitals. The last union hospital I worked at was good for benefits and pay, but just plain shitty at representing the new-guy bedside nurses. When they had a bitter strike, the hospital invited the union into their bedroom. After I finished my 60 day probationary period I asked who my union rep was. It was Linda the charge nurse. Imagine how stupid that would have seemed to me when I worked in a factory and my foreman and the committee man were the same guy!

What the hospital did was to make sure all of the union reps were old timers with cush day jobs, who couldn't care less about the "little people." The work rules were horrible for new people. They had an on-call list that was always filled with us newbies. If you were "on-call" that day and anybody at your house answered your phone, and you did not show up, you were automatically listed as "no-show." Somebody could walk up to you within one hour of your 12 hour shift and tell that you were mandated for another four, and you'd better be ON TIME the next morning, damn it!

After almost two years my co workers decided that they just didn't like me, so when my director called me to her office to show me the door, the Union president and Vice-president were right there to throw gasoline onto the fire.

This is what turns me off to unions. A month later I got a letter of solicitation from the state association (ANA). The guy (a non-nurse) said, "Nobody represents you better in your state capitol or in Washington." I told him about how poorly his union had represented me on the job. I told him about his reps showing up for my scr*wing with a big tube of Surgilube!

For the last three years I worked in a non-union place. One day my boss just decided she didn't like me any more. As an at-will employee I wish she'd have just shown me the door instead of making up a bunch of lies about me, suspending and firing me over six months. My lawyers kept telling me, "Get fired, and then I can help you." So I did, only then they said, "We can't help you." Since I was fired for alleged misconduct, I have been refused unemployment. I can appeal to the state for it, but I'm having trouble finding a lawyer to go to court with me for that.

I think this is just lawyer talk for, "I can't make enough money off of you."

Lawyers are just like unions, can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.

I am currently looking for work in other specialties in my area, and one of the first things I will do is to join a NON-ANA union, even if they are not contractors at my hospital, simply to have legal representation in future labour troubles.

If I cannot find work in this town I may be forced to relocate, and the first place I will go is to California. Although I am learning about the UAN, they do not represent any nurses in my geographical area.

Although housing and taxes are much higher in California, I would immediately DOUBLE my income by moving there. We lived out there for 10 years and our friends are always after us to come back out. In spite of many of the problems in California the CNA has shown me the only real bright spot on the horizon of nursing.

I only need to work another 5 years to retire. Social Security is based on my last two years of income so if I retired, from like, Kaiser Permanente, (with a good retirement package including more that just Medicare) I think we could swing it. I just hope we're not too old to do our "Oakie" thing again. :)

trustmee · Feb 4, 2004

Here in the UK most nurses I know only joined the union to get indemnity insurance cover in case they mess up and get sued!

I have been a union activist prior to nursing and feel that without trained negotiators our pay and conditions would not be at the level they are.

That said, I feel we have a long way to go!

BadBird, BSN, RN · Feb 4, 2004

I am enjoying reading the responses. What amazes me is that some of you think you could represent yourselves, and yes, you can but at some point you need to hire attorneys and pay out of pocket only to be told you are a "at will" employee and your termination will be upheld. At least with union representation they can't dismiss you like yesterdays news. I have seen it done to many good nurses who had a voice and spoke out one day and were fired the next. I am fortunate not to have experienced that but it could happen to any of us. I realize that the union is only as strong as the members and hopefully I will become a strong memeber. So many people want someone else to do the work and reap the benefits and that is wrong in my opinon. This particular hospital has raises every year written into the contract. My non union friends have not seen a raise in 4 1/2 years so that in itself speaks volumes.

NurseGuy_in_06 · Feb 4, 2004

Having worked all 4 sides in the union vs non-union debate, although not in nursing (I was an hourly union member, an hourly non-union member, management in a union company and management in a non-union company) I can honestly say that if there is a union at your hospital then there is a NEED for that union. A union just does not spring up for no reason. Having worked all sides of this issue I would definitely join a union if one existed.

atxnurse · Feb 4, 2004

I have worked union and non union hospitals; pros and cons for both. Depends on the contract.