Would your institution hire an MSN w/o BSN?

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Not sure which is the most appropriate forum for this, but here goes.

My ultimate goal is to become a Family Nurse Practioner. The advice of nursing faculty at a well-respected university was that as the holder of both bachelor's and master's degrees, the fastest route to NP was to get my ADN, become and RN and then enter the MSN program via the Bridge program for non-BSNs.

After getting my RN however, I now find that some - and possibly many - of the hospitals and other healthcare instutions - have hard requirements that all nursing employees must hold BSNs and that essentially, they do not recognize non-BSN MSNs as having anything other than an ADN. Even ANCC or AANP credentials apparently do not change this - the BSN is an absolute requirement for employment.

Is this peculiar to my area (greater Phila) which has lots of colleges and universities churning out BSNs (and a glut of nurses competing for relatively few jobs) or is this something I'd face in most parts of the country or even internationally?

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Specializes in Family Practice, Urgent Care, Cardiac Ca.

Hmmm! This is an interesting question. I know that a lot of the RN-MSN programs award a BSN halfway through, might look into that. What I DO know is that MANY NP grads are having a hard time getting hired as an NP without having experience as a nurse. Institutions seem hesitant to hire you as a APN if you haven't had exposure as an RN. Good Luck!

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Specializes in Developmental Disabilites,.

I work in CO and my hospital will not hire an RN without a BSN. The nice part was they paid for LPNs and ADNS to get their BSN. Some schools have a BSN-MSN program, where you get you BSN half way in. Good Luck.

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Is that the case even if you have a bachelor's in a field other than nursing?

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Is that the case even if you have a bachelor's in a field other than nursing?

For the most part, yes (although some individual facilities and institutions have their own policies and views, and are less strict). It's always a great blow to people with degrees in other areas to find out that their existing degrees count for little or nothing in nursing, but try to think about it by reversing the question -- how much would a nursing degree benefit you professionally in your previous field? Would it be considered an acceptable substitute for a degree in your specific field? Degrees are not interchangeable.

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I think what's happening is due to the flood of MSNs with absoulutely no professional clinical experience entering the field, facilities are now wise to the "empty degree" and what a mess it makes for liability.

The BSN is also just a "empty degree" as is the ADN, if you have no experience.

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Ohio State's direct entry NP program is for those with non-nursing bachelors degreese and you ONLY get a MSN. No BSN, no ADN. The RN part of the curriculum is certificate only.

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Specializes in Hospital Education Coordinator.

I would question their "rule" as not being current with contemporary teaching methods. There was a time when you HAD to get BSN in order to get MSN. But if the state will give you an advanced practice licensed then that ought to be good enough.

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The only real rules are State or Federal rules as to what you must have degree wise to get a job. Companies can have rules for entry into a position but they can be changed with one decision from someone who has the authority to make the decision. So a position may indicate they want BSN or MSN but what they really want is someone with good work ethics who can do a good job. Unless there are State rules (usually not federal rules for employ) requiring a specific degree or certification for a job you really don't need the degree for the job. Company HR depts make up the lists of degrees they want for a position in the ads or in the job description but those "rules" change or are disregarded if the candidate with the right EXPERIENCE comes along. Experience is the trump card. The degrees for a position are the HR dept's "wish list" and make it easy to eliminate candidates for the interviews since the manager only wants to interview the few best candidates. Interviews take a lot more time then reading resumes. The hiring manager is more likely to know what they are looking for, more than the HR person. But you usually have to get past the HR person to get the invite to the interview.

'Onaclearday' pointed out the sorrow of the new hiring manager who hired by an impressive degree on a resume and not by experience.

Sometimes a company will belong to an accreditation company that requires that a candidate for a particular position have certain qualifications, but those are usually again, are listed as years experience in a field rather than in type of degrees.

So if you look up the State rules/laws/regs for the states you want to practice you'll know what you will need. Search under healthcare and licensing and nursing boards.

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I think I did not communicate my question clearly.

The question is not: Can an ADN-RN get a nursing job without any experience but having an MSN? After all, it's only natural - and appropriate - that institutions require some level of experience from their MSN's and NP's as a pre-employment condition.

What I'm trying to find out is: After getting both experience and an MSN, would someone still be frozen out of the job market with potential employers not recognizing the MSN as at least the equivalent of the BSN?

At least one large employer does this - the military. All military nurses (with the possible exception of Army nurses) are required to have a BSN to join. The military will not consider second degree RN's with MSNs for commissioning. In this case, nursing experience is moot. The military will accept newly graduated BSN-RNs but not experienced MSN-RN's or even MSN/NP-RN's lacking the BSN.

What I've heard, admitedly anecdotally, is that at least 2 of the national health care organizations have also adopted this policy and will not consider your application if you are a 2nd degree MSN-RN. They absolutely require the BSN, irrespective of experience or advance practice credentials.

If this is indeed a trend, all 2nd degree MSN programs essentially become expensive wastes of time and money. What I'm trying to find out is if this is the truly the case.

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It's always a great blow to people with degrees in other areas to find out that their existing degrees count for little or nothing in nursing, but try to think about it by reversing the question -- how much would a nursing degree benefit you professionally in your previous field? Would it be considered an acceptable substitute for a degree in your specific field? Degrees are not interchangeable.

Interesting discussion, I quoted the above because not interchangeable but respected by many other

fields. For example if a BS in Nursing wants to attain an MBA, business departments do not demand the individual obtain a second degree in Business.

Many schools require the nurse to take core business courses and then proceed to the MBA. If the nurse has management/administration experience, it is respected. The nurse in the MBA program was not

looked at a non business person, but as an equal pursuing an MBA,in my

experience.

On the other hand, nursing is one of the few fields that keeps changing requirements. Instead of recognizing the

value of nurses with various backgrounds, the RN education requirements keep changing.

In a time when in many States there is a shortage of nurses, avenues to clinical and advanced practice should stay stable.

I feel that it leads to many good experienced nurses leaving the field. When you are working 3-11 pm and on call from 11-7am on a every 5th week rotation,taking on more courses for a degree becomes a challenge.

The RN bridge programs allow experienced nurses to attain their

goals. A degree and time spent working in other fields needs to be

respected by nursing in the way other fields have given respect to nursing students for a non nursing advanced degree.

Chuckster, illustrates a good point. If you are in an RN to MSN bridge program, by the time you finish

will it be marketable?

In our area, hospitals do not give a raise or help with tuition for a nurse to

go from ADN or diploma to BSN. In the shifting sands of hospital budgets , a BSN is no longer insurance that your position will not be eliminated.

My vote is to keep all current avenues open for experienced RNs with

a non nursing degree, including the bridge programs which go

to MSN directly.

Nursing as a field should be supportive of nurse retention and

individual growth in the nursing field. Retention is a key issue for

hospitals or they can look forward to a revolving door of many discouraged

nursing staff ....who will depart upon unrealistic education demands.

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I think I did not communicate my question clearly.

The question is not: Can an ADN-RN get a nursing job without any experience but having an MSN? After all, it's only natural - and appropriate - that institutions require some level of experience from their MSN's and NP's as a pre-employment condition.

What I'm trying to find out is: After getting both experience and an MSN, would someone still be frozen out of the job market with potential employers not recognizing the MSN as at least the equivalent of the BSN?

At least one large employer does this - the military. All military nurses (with the possible exception of Army nurses) are required to have a BSN to join. The military will not consider second degree RN's with MSNs for commissioning. In this case, nursing experience is moot. The military will accept newly graduated BSN-RNs but not experienced MSN-RN's or even MSN/NP-RN's lacking the BSN.

What I've heard, admitedly anecdotally, is that at least 2 of the national health care organizations have also adopted this policy and will not consider your application if you are a 2nd degree MSN-RN. They absolutely require the BSN, irrespective of experience or advance practice credentials.

If this is indeed a trend, all 2nd degree MSN programs essentially become expensive wastes of time and money. What I'm trying to find out is if this is the truly the case.

Keep in mind, though, that some (many?) direct-entry MSN and ADN->MSN programs do award a BSN along with the MSN degree -- graduates of those programs come out with both degrees. And there is a great deal of variety among healthcare employers as to what they prefer or require for employment. I don't know that the fact that the military takes an absolute position on the BSN (I don't know which other two "national health care organizations" you're referring to) means that other employers will be following suit. IMO, it's likely that it isn't a case of the military (and these other two organizations) taking a position against direct-entry MSN graduates as much it is that they just haven't changed their requirements yet to reflect the existence of direct-entry programs. The military has had the BSN requirement for a very long time, and is slow to make changes.

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